Finished install of MTNTK's BIG BOOST TURBO
- Thread starter PMSPOLARIS
- Start date
The stock Dragon 800 engages at 3850-4000 and this is barely enough to get the track turning in deep or sticky snow. When you turbocharge a snowmobile you end up with very heavy shift weights to get the power to the ground. While the shift weights primarily control your top end rpm they still make your engagement lower. We compensate for this with different springs, but even with springs to restore the engagement to stock the sled suffers from altitude sickness. This brings your engagement down the higher in altitude you get, plus the engine doesn't have as much power (yet, wait until the boost comes!). So to offset this phenomena we start a little higher initially. I hope this helps, this setup really is meant for boondocking!
S
hummmm? the best tuner in the world will pump out 13.4 hp max to the crank/flywheel with complete standalone system per 1lbs boost .....so 10 hp gain for every 1lbs of boost on a two stroke with a simple fuel box not adjusting timing........well
would be better to say: 5.5lbs=30-31hp max
I hope this clear's up confusion
Where did you come up with the 13.4 hp/lb of boost? I don't get your math. 5.5 into 31 is 5.64 horsepower/lb of boost. So if you have 15 lbs of boost at 5.64/lb that would make an 84hp gain. Everyone else is advertising more than that! It is a curve that will have way more gains/lbs of boost on the bottom that tapers off at the top. Our data reflects that. 51/5.5=9.27, 65/7=9.28, and 71/8= 8.87 repectfully. If the best in the world is 13.4 then we are getting darn close to beating the record:face-icon-small-hap! We didn't fake the numbers. We didn't drag the motor down in 1.5 seconds and do an inerta hp gain. We dynoed several stock dragon 800s (mostly because we couldn't believe how low the numbers were) and then put the turbo on and that is what we got. This sled really responds to a turbo. Same dyno, same sled. Then we put the sled back to stock and dynoed again, same numbers. Lets go riding when the snow gets deeper and lets see what they will do! I appreciate your comments, I would just like some more data and info where your numbers are coming from.
hummmm? the best tuner in the world will pump out 13.4 hp max to the crank/flywheel with complete standalone system per 1lbs boost .....so 10 hp gain for every 1lbs of boost on a two stroke with a simple fuel box not adjusting timing........well
would be better to say: 5.5lbs=30-31hp max
Where did you come up with the 13.4 hp/lb of boost? I don't get your math. 5.5 into 31 is 5.64 horsepower/lb of boost. So if you have 15 lbs of boost at 5.64/lb that would make an 84hp gain. Everyone else is advertising more than that! It is a curve that will have way more gains/lbs of boost on the bottom that tapers off at the top. Our data reflects that. 51/5.5=9.27, 65/7=9.28, and 71/8= 8.87 repectfully. If the best in the world is 13.4 then we are getting darn close to beating the record:face-icon-small-hap! We didn't fake the numbers. We didn't drag the motor down in 1.5 seconds and do an inerta hp gain. We dynoed several stock dragon 800s (mostly because we couldn't believe how low the numbers were) and then put the turbo on and that is what we got. This sled really responds to a turbo. Same dyno, same sled. Then we put the sled back to stock and dynoed again, same numbers. Lets go riding when the snow gets deeper and lets see what they will do! I appreciate your comments, I would just like some more data and info where your numbers are coming from.
S
I am looking at possibly putting a turbo on mine in the future, however at this time I just wanted to say the guys at PMS are awesome to deal with. I drove past 3 dealers to go to them and will again. Thanks fellas. Forgot to add. Job was done on time and on budget as originally agreed upon.
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S
i don't want to bash/scrap your thread, what i'm saying is the best tuner in the world are getting the numbers written above with complete timing adjustment and these number are coming from efi university in autralia(ray hall from vi-pec ecu system who is an f1 and indy irl certified efi tuner showed us mathematicaly and physicaly). my point is if you dynoed your sled to a "clutch style dyno" and get 10 hp per pond of boost with no timing adjustment and no ignition upgrade, than you are(or your tuner) a magician! you understand when entering the day condition(humidity-temperature-pressure)before dynoing the sled, a slight diffrence of 2% in the humidity numbers can affect your hp result by 10% easily.........a lot of shop are using these little tricks to misrepresent the reality so the customer are more happy!!!! i'm not saying it is what you are doing, it is just my .02 on the numbers thrown on this thread.......10 hp to the cluch per pound of boost considering at least a lost of 15% from the crank to the clutch makes the h.p numbers at 11.5 to the crank with no timing adjustment is simply impossible for me.
I am glad there are people out there like you who can be a watchdog for those who may not know much about the technical details of this sport, but I am not trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. Maybe Polaris really got it right with the timing and ignition power on the 2010 upgrade, since they have been using the aussie technology from Orbital Engine Technologies based in Austraila, to get their engines to have more durability. As for the cheating on the pressure, temperature, and humidity, my dyno has it's own weather station and I use the data it collects (automatically I might add) at the start of each dyno run. I am not quite sure about the supposed 15% loss from the crank to the clutch, since one: I am not pulling a dyno number off the clutch ( the clutch is sitting on the bench ), and two: I am not sure how else to get a reading of horsepower anywhere else. I am sure if we put a strain gauge on the connecting rod we would see some impressive pressure but since we need torque and rpm to calculate horsepower we have to let the crank do it's job and convert linear motion into rotary. And yes you may be correct that 10 hp/lbs of boost may be impossible, but even more so impossible if your not running our stuff
. I guess if you cannot believe in data collected scientifically with the latest technology perhaps I could give you my credentials that qualify me as a magician! I don't want to cause any animosity between us, and I enjoy talking with you, and welcome your comments and questions.hummmm? the best tuner in the world will pump out 13.4 hp max to the crank/flywheel with complete standalone system per 1lbs boost .....so 10 hp gain for every 1lbs of boost on a two stroke with a simple fuel box not adjusting timing........well
would be better to say: 5.5lbs=30-31hp max
What are you talking about?
Is 13.4 hp gain per 1lbs boost for a 2-smoker that puts out 150hp stock or some other motor that is putting out 200hp non boosted??
Every motor is different, some you can get more power out of boosted than the math says you can.
Oh Ya.... Not a big fan of areochargers but that is a cool kit, I like the turbo placement.
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S
I am glad there are people out there like you who can be a watchdog for those who may not know much about the technical details of this sport, but I am not trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. Maybe Polaris really got it right with the timing and ignition power on the 2010 upgrade, since they have been using the aussie technology from Orbital Engine Technologies based in Austraila, to get their engines to have more durability. As for the cheating on the pressure, temperature, and humidity, my dyno has it's own weather station and I use the data it collects (automatically I might add) at the start of each dyno run. I am not quite sure about the supposed 15% loss from the crank to the clutch, since one: I am not pulling a dyno number off the clutch ( the clutch is sitting on the bench ), and two: I am not sure how else to get a reading of horsepower anywhere else. I am sure if we put a strain gauge on the connecting rod we would see some impressive pressure but since we need torque and rpm to calculate horsepower we have to let the crank do it's job and convert linear motion into rotary. And yes you may be correct that 10 hp/lbs of boost may be impossible, but even more so impossible if your not running our stuff
Same thing with me here, i don't want to create animosity between the two of us, since i'm earing only good stuff on your kit/company.....the facts are i have some reserve on the number thrown,that's simply it. congratulation on fit and finish or your kit,by the pictures looks pretty good!i hope you will be in the turbo business for a long time :beer;
J
kit looks good but there is one statement that i totally disagree with. its stated above that the hp gains were bigger at lower boost levels
"It is a curve that will have way more gains/lbs of boost on the bottom that tapers off at the top."
i've now owned a turbo for two years and been around them for the last 3-4 years riding 15 to 20 of them. i have never seen a turbo that has more gains period yet alone way more gains/lbs of boost on the bottom and then tapers off at the top. the difference between 6lbs of boost and 9lbs of boost on my sled isnt very much at all, but the difference between 10lbs of boost and 12lbs of boost is HUGE! once over the 10lbs of boost level, the margin of power per lb of boost pressure increases dramatically and is very obvious.
"It is a curve that will have way more gains/lbs of boost on the bottom that tapers off at the top."
i've now owned a turbo for two years and been around them for the last 3-4 years riding 15 to 20 of them. i have never seen a turbo that has more gains period yet alone way more gains/lbs of boost on the bottom and then tapers off at the top. the difference between 6lbs of boost and 9lbs of boost on my sled isnt very much at all, but the difference between 10lbs of boost and 12lbs of boost is HUGE! once over the 10lbs of boost level, the margin of power per lb of boost pressure increases dramatically and is very obvious.
I probably was too brief in the statement and should clarify as you stated that there are still HUGE gains with more boost. That being said there are limits (upper limits) as to how much air and later exhaust that can go through the throttle bodies, reeds, cylinder ports, pipe stinger and turbine housing. You approach a point when more boost equals more temperature both in intake (due to the Gas Law's and Temperature rise when compressed) and piston temp (due to the exhaust backpressure), that negates the power and destroys your engine. You were right and thanks for bringing that point up to give me the opportunity to clear what I said up. Pray for snow!
V
True indeed. Lets also consider the fact that this is a variable-vane turbo which builds boost much differently and much faster than a conventional turbo. The Aerocharger is also the only turbo that is capable of achieving a "positive-delta" condition where it can produce more boost than back pressure.
Great looking kit by the way. This setup looks well balanced on the sled with the majority of the turbo kit's weight being centrally located. Also the added benefit of the kit being bolt-on and requiring no welding is a huge advantage to the life of the turbo. Over time the slag on the interior of the pipe from welding on a new flange will weaken from heat/stress and break away. This would almost certainly cause turbo failure when it pieces of metal get into the turbine housing. There is something to be said about a well thought out turbo kit.
hummmm? the best tuner in the world will pump out 13.4 hp max to the crank/flywheel with complete standalone system per 1lbs boost .....so 10 hp gain for every 1lbs of boost on a two stroke with a simple fuel box not adjusting timing........well
would be better to say: 5.5lbs=30-31hp max
I don't know where you get this "magical" number that for every 1 psi is equal to x-power. I am so sick of seeing this on this forum. 5 psi from one turbo is not equal to 5 psi on another turbo. It is about air flow. Volume of air being jammed into the motor.
I have used this example a number of times but think of it like this:
You need to drain a pond with a pump (turbo). You can use one pump and a garden hose and pump it at 15 psi or you can use a different pump and a fire hose and pump it at 10 psi. Do you really think the garden hose will drain the pond faster?
Very interesting, looks great and sounds good too!
A
Have pm'd both pmspolaris and mtnk and no responses back on a few questions. Come on guys i'm interested but would really appreciate a message back. Thanks
Auggie
Auggie
B
it probably has less gain at the higher boost levels because it is a aero 53 and can not flow enough air without getting out of its efficiancy range. once out of the efficiancy range it over spools and blows hot air.
I had a turbo street/drag bike that would not gain much et/mph once over 15lbs of boost. I had the a/f adjusted correctly for 20lbs of boost, but it wouldn't really go any faster then it did at 15psi. put a bigger turbo on and now their is a big difference all the way up to 29psi where the current turbo starts to max out with over 460hp. (made 424hp at 24psi and have not dynoed above that) could put a even bigger turbo on and make 550-575hp at over 36psi.
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R
What is the availability of this kit? All I keep hearing from Boondocker is a couple more weeks. Starting to get impatient.
V
The pictures shows it to be a 66-series Aerocharger. It's easy to tell by the controller bracket.
Above by the pic's we have a description of what is in this kit, we do run a 66 areocharger on the 800's MTNTK will have a kit for the 600 and 700 Polaris that will run the 53 :face-icon-small-hap
DECEMBER 14th 2009
December 4, 2009
Do to the overwhelming response and orders for the BIG BOOST TURBO KIT, MTNTK has been working round the clock on more kits to meet demand we should have more in by December 14th 2009. As for the race gas kit is should be a by the 22nd. Feel free to call us at (209)652-7738 for any questions related to the BIG BOOST TURBO.
December 4, 2009
Do to the overwhelming response and orders for the BIG BOOST TURBO KIT, MTNTK has been working round the clock on more kits to meet demand we should have more in by December 14th 2009. As for the race gas kit is should be a by the 22nd. Feel free to call us at (209)652-7738 for any questions related to the BIG BOOST TURBO.
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