Ti-Pex

mattymac

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Apr 12, 2004
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Sourced an older diamond S titanium tube apex chassis. Had a stock chassis 2860 impulse apex 162 that I always wanted to do this to. The chassis was a little rough when I got it. It had a wrecked stock front end, M7 skid junk maverick 162x2", holes in the tunnel skins.

My Plan is to redo the chassis making it look new again, drop in a built engine to be able to hold 500+ hp, bigger turbo (gtx 2867), Motec standalone with a custom race style wiring harness, titanium front end with exit shocks. chassis already has a drop and roll with 8t 3" pitch drivers with tons of clearance for my bigger paddle.

Theres still a long ways to go but I should have it ready for snow this upcoming winter.

One of the bigger projects to the chassis was to move and redo the rear skid mounting brackets, getting rid of the stock M series skid and putting in my KMOD 162 and camo extreme 3" cutdown track. if anyone knows welding ti takes a bit more prep and care to not contaminate the weld itself.

Ill update this thread as I move forward with the project.

Stock chassis turbo apex mtx 162 fully wet, 12 gallon impulse fuel cell setup, comes in at 673lbs! (174+176+323 rear) its heavy but balanced better than any other sled on the snow!

Im hoping to get it into the high 500 lb range wet/ready to ride by doing this conversion and a solid 400 hp engine/turbo setup.

Im sure people are gonna wonder why im doing this with such an old heavy dinosaur... I have always wanted to have this exact sled, I like being and having different things than everyone else (not everyone is chris burandt on their wrapped turbo twin) the power and sound of a built big boost apex is the best thing in the sport of snowmobiling, plus I already had the sled and theyre not worth that much anymore to sell so why not just keep pouring money into it! Ill still have less in this than a new factory turbo sled!
 

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Oct 8, 2009
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Good luck with the build...very cool. Nothing beats the sound of a turbo apex. I too have an apex project. As time permits, I work on restoring the first propex powerhouse customs built. For me, it was cheaper to source a low mile donor apex than pay someone to rebuild the engine. So, I appreciate your approach.

Lastly, as someone who did what you plan to do with a yamaha viper, I recommend practicing restraint. Motecs are very expensive (5k plug n play installed with a tune), and the gtx2867r won't get you to the numbers you are talking about. I maxed a 2867 gen 2 out at 24 psi at 8000 feet and had to go bigger to get to my 400 hp goal at altitude. You will need something like a gtx3071, g25-660, or g30-660. Furthermore, the apex requires a lot more machining than the viper motor, which cost me 5 grand to build for big power (400+). The apex costs more because it has 1 extra valve per cylinder and an extra cylinder. To give you an idea, you will need to closed deck the block (or it will crack a cylinder if you turn it up), put in high pressure valve springs, install rods and pistons, balance the rotating assembly, and machine the block for bigger head studs that go deep into the block. While your there, you may consider porting the head, putting in oversized valves, installing cams, putting in a gear reduction, and possibly stroking the crank. To build just the motor, you will spend around 8k, or 12k+ if you choose to get more wild. In the end, you will not use the power and ride it around at 280 to 320 hp on low boost. You will find more than that is simply too much in the mountains. I suggest riding it in the form you currently have operational with the considerable weight loss before going bananas on the motor. You will spend a fortune to not use the power a stock apex is capable of. In the end, all you need is a set of studs, a shim, valve springs and retianers, and retiming the cams to get in the mid 300s. I would not push past the 340 to 350 hp range...rods and pistons and a closed deck are needed past that. Also, Paul at impulse can hook up a programmed standalone for less than a motec. Go that route. I love my m130 because I can run big ignition coils and flex fuel for mixing race gas with e85. But, honestly you are paying for the name since you will barely touch the functionality of the motec.
 
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mattymac

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Apr 12, 2004
8,722
864
113
Sutter Ca.
Good luck with the build...very cool. Nothing beats the sound of a turbo apex. I too have an apex project. As time permits, I work on restoring the first propex powerhouse customs built. For me, it was cheaper to source a low mile donor apex than pay someone to rebuild the engine. So, I appreciate your approach.

Lastly, as someone who did what you plan to do with a yamaha viper, I recommend practicing restraint. Motecs are very expensive (5k plug n play installed with a tune), and the gtx2867r won't get you to the numbers you are talking about. I maxed a 2867 gen 2 out at 24 psi at 8000 feet and had to go bigger to get to my 400 hp goal at altitude. You will need something like a gtx3071, g25-660, or g30-660. Furthermore, the apex requires a lot more machining than the viper motor, which cost me 5 grand to build for big power (400+). The apex costs more because it has 1 extra valve per cylinder and an extra cylinder. To give you an idea, you will need to closed deck the block (or it will crack a cylinder if you turn it up), put in high pressure valve springs, install rods and pistons, balance the rotating assembly, and machine the block for bigger head studs that go deep into the block. While your there, you may consider porting the head, putting in oversized valves, installing cams, putting in a gear reduction, and possibly stroking the crank. To build just the motor, you will spend around 8k, or 12k+ if you choose to get more wild. In the end, you will not use the power and ride it around at 280 to 320 hp on low boost. You will find more than that is simply too much in the mountains. I suggest riding it in the form you currently have operational with the considerable weight loss before going bananas on the motor. You will spend a fortune to not use the power a stock apex is capable of. In the end, all you need is a set of studs, a shim, valve springs and retianers, and retiming the cams to get in the mid 300s. I would not push past the 340 to 350 hp range...rods and pistons and a closed deck are needed past that. Also, Paul at impulse can hook up a programmed standalone for less than a motec. Go that route. I love my m130 because I can run big ignition coils and flex fuel for mixing race gas with e85. But, honestly you are paying for the name since you will barely touch the functionality of the motec.

You're definitely not wrong with what you posted! I was planning on having hurricane do my engine build to be able to handle 500+ because if youre going to do something... do it right the first time. I had a number of high 300's - 400 useable hp and be able to handle it. I have many projects going on and probably wont have time for dave to do my engine. I ride my apex at 12psi day in and day out, I have turned it up to 18 for some drag race weekends, then right back down to ride it, mainly because it it more responsive and more fun with pump fuel and lighter clutching. Having the right fuel/ignition setup will make this problem go out the window (right along with the dobeck box). I would only want the ability to crank it up for some races every now and then. I have a great deal of self control and knowing the limits of my stuff unlike some people who get carried away with the ability to turn things up past the levels that they should.

I have talked many times with paul, he doesnt have anymore stuff to do a standalone for an apex nowadays.

Martin/Precision Sports will be doing my motec M400. He talked me out of an M130 because he said the fueling tables on the 400 works better with my setup.

Im waiting on suspension parts, along with some more chassis parts before moving forward. Not much to update yet but I will be making forward progress soon.
 
Oct 8, 2009
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Sounds like you know what you want. I have used Dave in the past, and he sold me a few parts. Obviously he can make power with the apex engine. I would throw two other names in the ring for consideration. Cody Phillips and Jeff Simons from Simons CPR (apex specialist). You can find jeffs number on snowest under simons cpr and cody has a website...codyphillipsracing.com. If you had a 3 cylinder viper or winder, I would say Brian Crower who recently started building all components to make big power with 3 cylinder engines.

Cody Phillips made the m130 for my SR Viper, and he specializes in the ridiculous. He makes serious power out of everything he touches. To give you an idea, he tunes 700 hp yxz's running methanol, race setup canam X3s, 2000 hp race cars, and he has tuned all turbo sled motors including the m1100, apex, viper/winder/nytro motor, and stroker variants of the engines. Flat out, he knows what he is doing, and he can make the motec do whatever you want. But, with the boost numbers you are talking (<20), you don't need it if your coils can fire effectively.

For example, my sled would start blowing the ignition spark out at 18 psi. More boost wasn't an option regardless of gap. In addition, 18 psi is low boost for me. I can run all the way up to 34 psi, which is way too much (higher levels only require a bigger map sensor and a retune). Next, I ported my head with bigger valves for intake and exhaust, so I had to by a standalone to run it. I sought help from Dave and he sold me on the pcv modified by Dave for secondary injectors after having the boost it box. Neither of these controller could do the job. In the end, Cody was the only person willing to help me build a standalone that could run my factory gauge. The M130 is the only way to go because it has data logging capability, which is critical for remote tuning. The m400 doesn't have it, and you have to hope your motor is the same as a motor precision already tuned. Otherwise, you have to buy a data logger separately. Precision probably wants the m400 because the software components are already made for them to tune it and to display to the gauge. In the least, call Cody and talk to him. My sled rips and it runs big IGN1 race coils, a 4 stage boost switch, and has flex fuel capability whereby my timing curve scales with the alcohol content I run. Stage 1 is gate pressure/limp mode, 2. Low boost, 3. Middle boost, and 4. High boost. The flex fuel and limp mode allows me to safely operate the engine on pump gas if I find myself in a scenario where I ran out of fuel and I have to use pump fuel to get home.
 
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mattymac

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Lifetime Membership
Apr 12, 2004
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Sutter Ca.
Not much in the update department. I have been busy with my apex but it doesnt look like much has gotten done... been doing a lot of small things.

Welded up dozens of rivet holes, old bolt holes, etc. This chassis went through a few changes before I had picked it up and just wanted to try and clean it up as much as I could.

New tunnel skins, I ended up polishing them. I wanted to powder coat em but I couldnt settle on a color I was excited enough on to go that route.

Zbros has had my front shocks for over 3 months and have jerked me around, still dont have em.

Still working on my engine and fuel/EMS setup. but its moving forward. Had to make a new chaincase guard which is now done, and still trimming plastics to get everything to fit up good. Long ways to go but its moving forward. Sourced a rear double pass vanamburg race tunnel style cooler and did away with the single pass U cooler that was in it.
 

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