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Is an all new YAMAHA FACTORY TURBO VIPER on the horizon??

christopher

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http://www.supertraxmag.com/article.asp?nid=2929

There's always intrigue associated with the annual Snow Shoot event in West Yellowstone. That's why the insightful and inquisitive minds at Supertrax and Snowtrax regularly uncover something juicy.

Consider this:
Why would Yamaha virtually re-tool its venerable and top-of-the-4-stroke-biz 1049cc triple, making durability improvements (pistons, crank, rods) and packaging tweaks?
That's exactly what the guys from the Big Y told us.

Get this straight:
The changes (which are substantial but invisible) to the engine were only evidenced on the Yamaha Vector and associated variants (some Ventures).
The Viper 1049 and Arctic Cat's 7000s are exactly as they were in MY 2015.

Equally interesting is this:
The Vector's 1049 gets an all-new induction system featuring a drive-by-wire throttle called YCCT (Yamaha Chip Control Throttle).
This is a completely transparent, superb working technology you cannot perceive is in play when riding a new Vector.

However, this move to a new throttle system surely did not require a beefing up of internal components in the engine and recasting of the crankcases.
So what would necessitate this kind of re-working, especially considering the 1049 is a drop-dead bulletproof motor?

Bada-bing, ka-ching!
Is Yamaha about to intro a factory-built turbocharged 1049?
Here's the deal: MPI has proven the 1049 can not only take boost, it can take it all day, all season long in the Viper.

Also, the Yamaha/Arctic Cat agreement has created the need for a boosted motor to replace the current Suzuki-built turbo likely coming to the end of its tenure with Cat.

So, with these realities in play and the likelihood Arctic Cat will have a new chassis in the future built around the 1049 instead of modified to accept the engine as it is now, wouldn't a retooling and beefing up of that engine make sense?

Here's one more:
If Yamaha and AC are going to have a top-of-the-market turbocharged snowmobile they would most certainly be targeting more power than the current MPI 1049 and Suzuki 1056 twin produce.
Think 200 ponies.
That would require an intercooler and beefing up the 1049.
Are the pieces coming together for you?

Quite honestly if there's not something more going on here, then Yamaha just wasted a ton of money re-tooling what is already a stellar engine.

I think you better stay tuned.
 
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slash

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Don't want to burst yer bubble but thousand dollar T bodies on sleds ?
on cars when they malfunction you WALK call a TOW TRUCK there's no road side fix to get you home . AND IT HAPPENS ALOT !!
 

05900

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"drive by wire" is more drive by volts,they better have a redundant cable ( so why bother ) and they'll have more "chips"....NO THANKS.!!
West Yellowstone... unintended acceleration event causes mass destruction,can't wait!
 

christopher

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Late February 2016.

Yamaha announces factory installed MPI Turbo on VIPER MTX.

Confidence level on this one is about 80% as of today based on private conversations.

We are NOT going to see a "new" motor in the sense that we expected as promised by Yamaha Corporate a few years ago. Rather, they are going to "Retool" the existing Genesis 1049 by swapping out the rotating assembly in preparation for factory boost.

This will be a major step forward for the sled.
 

LoudHandle

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I really do not see a demand. Of all the Yamaha dealers in the state of Alaska they sold a grand total of exactly 17 sleds (all models) for the 2014-2015 season. Which equates to about 3% of the total sleds sold in the state for the same season. So roughly 566 sleds sold, 17 Yamaha, I don't have the numbers on which models but not enough for me to consider making any parts for them. You're on your own there Chris.
 

christopher

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I really do not see a demand. Of all the Yamaha dealers in the state of Alaska they sold a grand total of exactly 17 sleds (all models) for the 2014-2015 season. Which equates to about 3% of the total sleds sold in the state for the same season. So roughly 566 sleds sold, 17 Yamaha, I don't have the numbers on which models but not enough for me to consider making any parts for them. You're on your own there Chris.

This time around I think I am on pretty solid ground.

When Yamaha Corporate promised us "New Engines" I am pretty sure this was their game plan all along, we just misinterpreted it as we wanted to see BRAND NEW ENGINES.

February 2016, YamaCat Turbo Viper direct from the assembly line.

What I don't know yet is if we will see any evolution of the chases.
The new 2016 front end will be well received by all the riders.

I did the full upgrade on a 2015 last week at the Arctic Cat facility in Island Park. I think that is going to be a solid step forward for handling and sidehilling on the Viper.
 

christopher

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One thing I have only recently come to more fully understand was the importance of the EPA emissions credits that Yamaha brought to the Arctic Cat table during their joint development discussions.

Apparently this was the major carrot that Yamaha had to offer Cat to team up with them.

Cat has big plans for 2 strokes in the next year or two.
While I was asked not to say anything about what I saw, I can say that they are absolutely pressing forward on new innovative 2S designs for the near future.

But no matter what they do to them, they will NEVER be as clean as a 4 stroke. So by manufacturing that Vipers, Cat has been able to lower their CAFE numbers and thus allow them to press forward with more 2 stroke development and buy more time as the tighter EPA regs come into force.
 

MTN_VIPER

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Ski Doo already has throttle by wire on they're ACE four stroke engines and to be honest I'm surprised that it's not more wide spread in the sled industry yet.
Virtually all new cars and trucks sold in the US are throttle by wire and most have been for quite some time now.

As emissions regulations get tighter, your probably going to see it more as it helps the ECU control emissions by regulating the throttle blade opening/closing rate.

Throttle by wire also helps the manufacturer control warranty cost for catastrophic engine failures as well. With throttle by wire you are basically sending a request to the ECU for a certain throttle position/power level. If the engine operating conditions are not correct for a full throttle pull, (for example engine temp is to cold/hot or the EGT temp is to high, etc) the ECU will command the engine output to a certain percentage level to protect the engine from damage.
 

akMcat

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I really do not see a demand. Of all the Yamaha dealers in the state of Alaska they sold a grand total of exactly 17 sleds (all models) for the 2014-2015 season. Which equates to about 3% of the total sleds sold in the state for the same season. So roughly 566 sleds sold, 17 Yamaha, I don't have the numbers on which models but not enough for me to consider making any parts for them. You're on your own there Chris.

Probably not the best indicator since Alaska had the worst winter for snow in the last decade. It's pretty tough for you to get excited about buying a new sled when you can't ride it.
 

Shattered1

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I really do not see a demand. Of all the Yamaha dealers in the state of Alaska they sold a grand total of exactly 17 sleds (all models) for the 2014-2015 season. Which equates to about 3% of the total sleds sold in the state for the same season. So roughly 566 sleds sold, 17 Yamaha, I don't have the numbers on which models but not enough for me to consider making any parts for them. You're on your own there Chris.

The low sales couldn't have anything to do with the lack of snowfall this year could it?

I suspect that very few people in the state got a new sled of any brand this season unless they already had it snow checked. I bet there haven't been ten new mountain sleds sold in the state since the new year.

We have had sled access a total of 48 hours in Juneau this season. And it doesn't look like there will be an opening again until next winter. The weather hasn't been quite so bad in Southcentral and the Interior, but I have seen plenty of griping on the snowmobile forums by people saying that they have to drive for five hours to the Hoodoo's to find any good snow. Just recently Cantwell and Petersville have had enough snow to get a decent ride in. Even Valdez has been crap for most of the season.

Who in their right mind would buy a new sled in a season like this one?
 

Shattered1

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I don't know what to expect from Yamaha.

I know that Yamaha has both the engineering assets and production capability to make the best mountain sled ever made. I suspect the problem is profitability and/or retail cost.

I have every confidence that they could produce an exotic alloy and/or carbon fiber chassis with an engine made from exotic alloys weighing 450 pounds and making 200+ horsepower and the best handling chassis in the business. The only problem is that the cost of such a sled would be out of most everyone's budget. I don't think there is the market to support such an endeavor, and Yamaha probably doesn't think so either.

Even if they did make "the best mountain sled on the market", there would be a significant number of riders that wouldn't buy one due to brand loyalty. There's a certain part of the market that that you aren't going to capture regardless of how good your product is.

I would love to see Yamaha make it's own chassis and make it the bestest mountain sled ever made, but I don't see this happening any time soon.

Factory turbo would be nice, but I don't see any real advantage over the current MPI add on package. Other than the shutting up the anti-Yammi crew about it not being stock and a turbo being an unfair mod. Frankly, I don't care what anyone else thinks about my sled so long as I'm happy with it, so that isn't a big selling point with me.

I guess time will tell, but I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Yamaha in the near future. Maybe I'll be surprised, but I'm not holding out too much hope.
 
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stingray719

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The big numbers for the Viper are back east and the Midwest. The demand was so high for the turbo that MPI rushed out a low altitude kit and it went over so well they could not keep up with demand. So my point is if they do a factory turbo it isn't for us it is for the lowlanders and we just happen to be there to get one too.

Christopher would have more accurate info than me but the info I have is over 10,000 Vipers were sold. Not many were MTX.
 

christopher

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Christopher would have more accurate info than me but the info I have is over 10,000 Vipers were sold. Not many were MTX.

Honestly have NO idea what the hard sales numbers were for the Vipers.
But the MTX is not the lead configuration for that sled.
Not by a long shot.

We just happen to be the most vocal.:face-icon-small-hap
 
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geo

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Nobody displays as much passion for Yamaha as you Christopher. Seems to me you are starting to share that passion a bit with Arctic Cat now too.

I your opinion is this marriage a permanent thing? No more totally Yamaha sleds in the future? Are you happy with the merged fit and finish-standards of the Yamacats? Will there be a Y8000 mountain based (skinny and light) sled at western Yamaha dealers in 2017 and what may be Yamaha in that sled?

Just trying to pry more info out of you Christopher because you mentioned 2 stroke development on the Yamaha forum.
 

RACINSTATION

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From what I know, Yamaha has no interest in pursuing two stroke development in the snowmobile segment. Arctic Cat has a very high interest in this division and continues to develop new two stroke technology. The "marriage" seems to have smoothed out a bit in the last year and appears to be working well for both companies at this point. How long will it last? Who knows.
 

madmax

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Redesigned yammi motor just in time for the 2016 wildcat. That will be a real advancement for cat. A 130hp normally aspirated side by side and then a factory 200hp turbo!?!? Maybe yamaha will get the wildcat chassis too. Sorry, but lack of snow has turned my mind to dirt.
I spend a fair amount of time over at MPI, there is A LOT of stuff going on right now between the three companies, Cat, Yammi and MPI. It'll be good for all of us.
 

christopher

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Nobody displays as much passion for Yamaha as you Christopher. Seems to me you are starting to share that passion a bit with Arctic Cat now too.

If you will remember back a couple years...
SnoWest Magazine invited a couple of us from the forum to participate in the Deep Powder Challenge. At the time my favorite overall 2-stroke sled was the ARCTIC CAT. So I can honestly say I DO like the way the Cats feel and handle. Mate a Cat with a Yami powerplant and you are moving in a direction that I can support.

I your opinion is this marriage a permanent thing? No more totally Yamaha sleds in the future? Are you happy with the merged fit and finish-standards of the Yamacats? Will there be a Y8000 mountain based (skinny and light) sled at western Yamaha dealers in 2017 and what may be Yamaha in that sled?

Just trying to pry more info out of you Christopher because you mentioned 2 stroke development on the Yamaha forum.

For now I have not heard any rumors of the two companies parting ways.
They seem to be getting along better now than before, but it takes TIME to get used to each other.

I have heard nothing about Yamaha shutting down its production line of trail sleds. Have you.?? Its the Mountain Segment that seems to be the production challenge for Yamaha Corp...

Is the Yami-Cat everything the pure Yami was? No.
Not yet.

There are some assembly things on the Viper that absolutely DRIVE ME NUTS. Just try to take the hood off on top of the mountain and you will know what I am talking about instantly. That was a SIMPLE task on a Nytro.

Though, if the UNCONFIRMED RUMOR mill is correct, the new chases will have a single clam shell style hood on it and should once again be super User Friendly to open up and get access to on the mountain! I have only heard this from ONE person's mouth, so the reliability factor is LOW on this one right now, but man-o-man would that be welcome.

I have heard Nothing about a "Skinny and Lightweight" Yami coming to a dealer near you in 2017. Yamaha is done with 2S.

What I do is that for some dark deep mysterious reason, the Snowmobile division and the Motorcycle division refuse to talk to each other and share technology. Beats the living heck out of me WHY, but there just seems to be ZERO cross pollination between them, and the sled side is the worse off because of it as the Bike side RACES forward with absolutely cutting edge technology year after year.
 
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I really do not see a demand. Of all the Yamaha dealers in the state of Alaska they sold a grand total of exactly 17 sleds (all models) for the 2014-2015 season. Which equates to about 3% of the total sleds sold in the state for the same season. So roughly 566 sleds sold, 17 Yamaha, I don't have the numbers on which models but not enough for me to consider making any parts for them. You're on your own there Chris.

Please stop, your facts are horribly wrong. Yes it wasn't a great year for yamaha or any manufacturer but add something useful to this thread, not numbers you decided to make up in your head.
 

LoudHandle

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Please stop, your facts are horribly wrong. Yes it wasn't a great year for yamaha or any manufacturer but add something useful to this thread, not numbers you decided to make up in your head.

They are not made up, they are straight from the AK Yamaha dealers. I really don't care if you want to believe them or not. It is obvious that regardless of the facts you choose not to believe anything that is not Pro-Yamaha anyway.
 
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