Etec RKT 860 longevity/ performance

Mach-ster · Mar 21, 2013

backcountryislife said:
Yet another hugely useful response.

Guess I'll just know from now on that I'll get nothing but BS in this forum.., thanks for clearing that up for me boys.

Tucker, Mach, and the rest of the fan club.., perhaps you might EVENTUALLY figure it out... I don't want an 872, sorry... find somewhere more useful for your sales pitch. Clearly I didn't make that obvious enough in the last 20 posts. Some folks just don't catch on so quick.

Maybe I should just stick to cat just to have a more useful forum... this crap in here is retarded... and it's in nearly every thread.

Enjoy your quilting circle ladies.

Sent from my A200 using Tapatalk 2

I don't need to fiqure anything out! and I could give a rats *** what you buy. You came on here asking about 860 Etech did you not? how's that working out for you? And you are correct on me being a fan of Trygstad's work, had many engine from him over the years and they all rock! nothing wrong with that is there? If your a big Kelsey fan good for you. But like a prior post mentioned earlier maybe green is better suited for you? just saying.

backcountryislife · Mar 21, 2013

caper11 said:
Your OP asked about durability/performance of a etec 860. I don't get the bias but whatever, the etec 872 has been out in "prototype" form since 2011 but only a few were released buzzing around on the mtns. Since the release of the etec a certain someone posted very passionately on here and other forums that due to the etec technology it could not be done so he concentrated on the cat and pro BB's.
Than all of a sudden a etec 860 appears so how much r@d was done on the etec 860? How reliable is it? Can't answer that its new for this year, buy one and let us know.
It looks like it works good on YouTube but I'd prefer to see vids and reviews of customers sleds.
Unfortunately I don't believe your going to find the answers your looking for on the kit your asking about verses the 872, because there are quite a bit of 872 etecs on the snow now. Like I said buy a 860 and let us know how you like it.

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At least that was a useful response though, giving real info that's pertinent to the conversation.

To the rest of the circle of fanboys... I was rather specific in my first post, and all of them after, but you felt the need to keep bringing up your butt buddy dave over & over.

I'm considering this kit because I've seen in ptek form a number of times, and it does very well. I asked about this kit, and specifically asked to avoid the bulllsh** that I see in every thread in this section, but that wasn't clear enough for you guys.

If you don't like RKT... that's fine... feel free to NOT post in this thread, but the incessant yapping about the same crap over & over gets old faster than listening to a poodle barking at it's own shadow.

I don't know what you guys couldn't understand about what I asked... but clearly my request was too complex for some.

I'm going from 7 years on cats, to doos, I've got a ton of questions, and would love some help, as I've been doing for people in the cat world for years, but if people can't offer help that's relevant to the conversation... just bow out... it's not that tough.

backcountryislife · Mar 21, 2013

Mach-ster said:
I don't need to fiqure anything out! and I could give a rats *** what you buy. You came on here asking about 860 Etech did you not? how's that working out for you? And you are correct on me being a fan of Trygstad's work, had many engine from him over the years and they all rock! nothing wrong with that is there? If your a big Kelsey fan good for you. But like a prior post mentioned earlier maybe green is better suited for you? just saying.

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go away little dog... your barking is obnoxious.

backcountryislife · Mar 21, 2013

winter brew said:
There just aren't as many of the etec big bores out there. They work very good stock so many are hesitant to "mess with a good thing".
The shops that did the etec bigbores first, would not sell to anyone under 6,000ft so that limited the market also. They finally figured out how to trick the system into giving a little more fuel but that took time to figure out and I'm sure there were some hiccups in getting there. I would say it's only this year that there is a good feel for what "works" on the etec BB's for fueling, so you will likely see more in the future. Now that there is a fuel controller for the etec (finally) that will likely make the BB option more appealing to a broader market.
As far as durability, I don't see why they shouldn't ALL be as reliable as stock with proper clearances, cylinder plating and fueling.

Agreed... the fueling part is where I wonder, as adding 60cc's without a controller leaving stock fueling is my main concern.

I know how the 860 runs with carbs, and we add fuel to them... I just wonder how the etec gets away with not doing the same. makes me wonder if there's hot spots, or if, as we go up in altitude, the fueling from the stock computer changes some.

On the cat when we go above 12k, we actually have to add fuel, because the cat computer deducts too much (on mod 1000's that is), overcompensating.... I wonder about similar differences in fuel on the doo.

I love the idea of not having a BD box on my sled (or attitude or whatever), but with an inability to change fueling... that's my only real concern here.

Danzick · Mar 21, 2013

running kelseys 20 hp drop in kit on my old beat up 2004 rev and it out climbed 3 xp's by about 2 sled lengths a couple weeks ago. there is no way a stock 2004 rev would have been able to do that.
EDIT: here it is. pretty long pull on the etec 860.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM_uIc34G18

Mach-ster · Mar 21, 2013

Pretty easy to be "tuff" behind that keyboard! In the interest of keeping these threads clean and not nasty i'll leave it at that. Your not worth responding to anymore regardless of what you say.

Bacon · Mar 21, 2013

After having boost, I don't think you will be happy with a big bore. Not enough gain for dollars invested. Leave it stock and dial it in with clutching and suspension and I am guessing you will be able to hang with most if not all of these big bores. A well setup stocker works good. I just dont think a 20 hp gain is worth the headache and lost warranty. That's my opinion, I will head for cover now.:rain:

backcountryislife · Mar 21, 2013

Danzick said:
running kelseys 20 hp drop in kit on my old beat up 2004 rev and it out climbed 3 xp's by about 2 sled lengths a couple weeks ago. there is no way a stock 2004 rev would have been able to do that. have you seen the video that dynamoe joe posted up up someone running the rkt 860 etec and a 3 inch track? awesome video.

I saw that... having seen what a 3" does to a stock sled though... it makes it hard to compare! I'm gonna have to get by with my little 146 2.5 somehow!

backcountryislife · Mar 21, 2013

Mach-ster said:
Pretty easy to be "tuff" behind that keyboard! In the interest of keeping these threads clean and not nasty i'll leave it at that. Your not worth responding to anymore regardless of what you say.

WONDERFUL... thank you very much. That's all I've asked for since post 1.
You've added nothing but exactly what I really tried to avoid, so that is greatly appreciated, is for you to not respond. It's not about being "tough"... it's about not posting EXACTLY what the OP asked to avoid since the beginning.

backcountryislife · Mar 21, 2013

Bacon said:
After having boost, I don't think you will be happy with a big bore. Not enough gain for dollars invested. Leave it stock and dial it in with clutching and suspension and I am guessing you will be able to hang with most if not all of these big bores. A well setup stocker works good. I just dont think a 20 hp gain is worth the headache and lost warranty. That's my opinion, I will head for cover now.:rain:

No need to head for cover man... it's a legit point. For me, it's a matter of spending 1850 on a big bore, for 20hp (in reality 14 or less up here) compared to around 7k on boost, for about 90 horse. Dollar for dollar I get about 1.5x the HP/$ from boost, but you get almost none of your money back when you're done. Also... I use that number 90, based on cats, but I just haven't seen a doo run that well on boost. I don't believe it's not possible, I just haven't seen it.

I've got 19k into my cat, and 2 years later with 3k miles on it (including the two lightest years I've ever ridden) I'm going to end up with about 7-8k MAX out of my machine... I just can't really take that kind of hit right now, I've got a 9 month old that seems like he almost EXPECTS me to feed him & such

so I'm going to try to work on a smaller scale, and though I still won't get much in 2 years when I sell again, I'll have less loss in reality. Also do keep in mind I'm coming from the crossfire 141x 2.25x 15 to the 146x 2.5x 16... so a big gain in float, and how much I need from the motor.

As to loss of warranty though... it's a concern, but that only affects the motor. I'm not going to lose my warranty on the things that concern me more, like the electronics. I'm not the guy that brings a mod sled in for work when the mods caused the issue, I just believe in being more honest than that, BUT... I do expect it to be covered when it's not related. The motor I can deal with, it's the rest of the machine I'm unfamiliar with!

RKT · Mar 21, 2013

BCIL

The ETEC is now able to correctly adjust it's fuel delivery based on the inputs it is receiving from the various sensors it has on board (they added some more sensors)

So, what that means is that if the engine "sees" that it requires a different amount of fuel (more or less) it is able to make that adjustment "on the fly".

This is a great feature to have.

Other than the fueling method and a slight difference in the RAVE operation , the ETEC is the EXACT same engine as the PTEK.. In otherwords an 860 ETEC and an 860 PTEK share the same top end.. Oh ya, the crank bearings are sealed vs. oiled.

So, as far as the Big Bore there is nothing different in terms of components needed. Size is the same, Porting is slightly different on our ETEC vs. PTEK, pistons are still our custom 860 designed pistons.. Of course the head is different due to the injectors.

We are very pleased with the RK Tek 860 ETEC, it has shown to be a great sled that makes some very good power.

We have friends who ride very good running POlaris Turbos... So, we made some comparisions one day with them. They adjusted the turbo to a level that equaled the RK Tek 860 ETEC in terms of power and speed on a STEEP and LONG DEEP powder hill pull (no drag racing here) Anyway, we ended up at 7PSI boost level for the RK Tek 860 ETEC and the Boondocker Turbo at 9,000ft elevation to pull equally. So, we were pleased with that.

One of the real benefits of this particular kit is that we have DESIGNED it to run with the stock exhaust system, stock clutching (just a clicker adjustment), and NO fuel controller.. This was always our intention/goal to make a ETEC big bore that will require ZERO owner input or adjustment.. A TRUE "bolt on and ride" kit that delivers a solid power gain (more than the 20HP you are thinking) and ZERO reliabilty concerns..

We are working on getting the engine to produce even more power and will continue to do so every time we are out (we have many things in the works).

RK Tek has been doing the 860 kit for longer than ANY shop out there. It was our "brain-child" back in Nov 2006 and we did the very 1st "R" 860 kit. So, we do have the experience since it was our invention.

You are welcome to come ride our ETEC for the entire day, anytime you wish...

Danzick · Mar 21, 2013

backcountryislife said:
I saw that... having seen what a 3" does to a stock sled though... it makes it hard to compare! I'm gonna have to get by with my little 146 2.5 somehow!

im actually more talking about how long he stayed wide open. pretty consistent RPM's and a good long pull.

winter brew · Mar 21, 2013

backcountryislife said:
Agreed... the fueling part is where I wonder, as adding 60cc's without a controller leaving stock fueling is my main concern.

I know how the 860 runs with carbs, and we add fuel to them... I just wonder how the etec gets away with not doing the same. makes me wonder if there's hot spots, or if, as we go up in altitude, the fueling from the stock computer changes some.

On the cat when we go above 12k, we actually have to add fuel, because the cat computer deducts too much (on mod 1000's that is), overcompensating.... I wonder about similar differences in fuel on the doo.

I love the idea of not having a BD box on my sled (or attitude or whatever), but with an inability to change fueling... that's my only real concern here.

I don't know exactly what all the various builders are doing, but some are relocating a sensor to a location that is colder, tricking it into adding fuel.
I would think a controller would be more consistant and give better control, it's taken Dynojet almost 4 years to figure out the etec so hopefully this is something that works well and perhaps the builders can use to their benefit.

bclarks · Mar 21, 2013

I have an RKT 860 in my '12 ETEC. I am 100% satisfied. The first year I put 2000km on the sled and left engine stock. This year I decided to go with the RKT 860 as I had very good results with Kelsey's kit in an '08 PTEC. Why change to the unknown when you are a satisfied customer. I only have slightly over 1000km on this BB this season but it has run flawless so far. Most of our riding is done between 6000 - 8000 ft. I am still working on the clutching setup and am miles away from my stock setup. This is proof positive that this kit works. I have seen track speeds in excess of 50mph held on long climbs with a 3" track. Not the best indicator as there are so many variables involved. This has been my personal experience with Kelsey's product.

Bacon · Mar 21, 2013

Hey, that only took 54 posts to find someone who actually has an e-tech 860.

backcountryislife · Mar 21, 2013

bclarks said:
I have an RKT 860 in my '12 ETEC. I am 100% satisfied. The first year I put 2000km on the sled and left engine stock. This year I decided to go with the RKT 860 as I had very good results with Kelsey's kit in an '08 PTEC. Why change to the unknown when you are a satisfied customer. I only have slightly over 1000km on this BB this season but it has run flawless so far. Most of our riding is done between 6000 - 8000 ft. I am still working on the clutching setup and am miles away from my stock setup. This is proof positive that this kit works. I have seen track speeds in excess of 50mph held on long climbs with a 3" track. Not the best indicator as there are so many variables involved. This has been my personal experience with Kelsey's product.

Thanks for the feedback man... you're a ways lower than me, but that's great to hear. Like you said, having seen the 860 run, and run very well... that's my reasoning for going after this particular kit, and it's good to hear from someone who's got some time on it.

Brew, the lack of controller is one of the biggest draws to this setup. It took me a year & few few top ends to figure out how to intelligently tune a 1000, I really am looking forward to not watching gauges, not worrying about what percentage of race gas I'm running today depending on my elevation, or converting from 114 to 100LL for the weekend because I can't get to bandimere for sunoco, and how much of which is needed to make my 13.5 I want to hit... I'm kinda stoked to have a boring, only slightly better than stock sled!

Even with how trouble free my cutler has been, it's a lot more to think about, and you spend much more time looking it over, checking things, changing turbo oil, checking reeds.

Now that I've got a little one around, I want to spend more of that time with him... he's pretty cool, and I really enjoy watching him learn & grow, rather than watching my sled! It's just a change in priorities, that's all. I went from riding 60+ days a year, to more like 30, no more filming, no more treating sledding like work... just having fun riding, so I want the time I spend to be as worry free as possible!

winter brew · Mar 21, 2013

I hear that. At your elevation the fueling is probably not a huge issue. I ride 2500-6000ft so there were some issues with maxing out what fuel could be had by tricking the ECM, so a control box would be something to give us some insurance. Some of the pulls I've seen on Vid of Kelseys setup tells me they have the fuel figured out.

backcountryislife · Mar 21, 2013

winter brew said:
I hear that. At your elevation the fueling is probably not a huge issue. I ride 2500-6000ft so there were some issues with maxing out what fuel could be had by tricking the ECM, so a control box would be something to give us some insurance. Some of the pulls I've seen on Vid of Kelseys setup tells me they have the fuel figured out.

Well... folks thought they had fuel figured out on the 1000, till it passed 12,500 (something I do right in my back yard riding spot every day) then the changes to dc dropped us from hi to mid, and this caused a lean condition obviously as the mid couldn't be bumped near what the hi was without other issues, which was only really fixed by changing the transition points or switching to tps based control...

Obviously this is a stock sled, not a boonie box, BUT how the motor compensates at extreme altitudes, which are never really tested when they build these things (the stock sleds I mean), is my only actual concern. If guys are running BB's in UT running without a box, I'm sure they're getting CLOSE to my altitude, but I don't know anyone in UT riding near 13k... so it's something that does somewhat concern me. If I'm not putting EGT's on this sled (that's the idea, is that I don't need to) then I'm going to be a bit nervous about being the first one this high. The highest place I've ever heard of guys riding in UT is 11,500... I unload just below 11k usually and my highest regular spot I hit is 13,150.

I'm pretty sure it'll be fine... but "pretty sure" isn't something I'm fond of.

caper11 · Mar 21, 2013

winter brew said:
I hear that. At your elevation the fueling is probably not a huge issue. I ride 2500-6000ft so there were some issues with maxing out what fuel could be had by tricking the ECM, so a control box would be something to give us some insurance. Some of the pulls I've seen on Vid of Kelseys setup tells me they have the fuel figured out.

We stage at 2500ft and ride at 6500, I love the fact that the 872 uses pump gas and no controller. The engine is smooth and makes power. The 872 was using stock clutching at the time with 20g of pinweight and pulling a average of 5mph better trackspeed but I felt the stock clutching was not up to the job, because I didn't like the stock clutching on my stock sled. I haven't had a chance to try the 872 properly clutched but was told it was alot stronger.

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backcountryislife · Mar 21, 2013

caper11 said:
We stage at 2500ft and ride at 6500, I love the fact that the 872 uses pump gas and no controller. The engine is smooth and makes power. The 872 was using stock clutching at the time with 20g of pinweight and pulling a average of 5mph better trackspeed but I felt the stock clutching was not up to the job, because I didn't like the stock clutching on my stock sled. I haven't had a chance to try the 872 properly clutched but was told it was alot stronger.

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I would think with the amount of improvement there is to be had on any sled with SOLID clutching, that these setups would do well if you put some effort into them. Being able to run as is is pretty darn nice as well though, keeping initial costs low is a big factor for me this time around.

Etec RKT 860 longevity/ performance

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