Expert front end changes

TreeThrasher · Mar 2, 2019

Can someone explain the exact changes made to the expert sled front end? As I understand it the have removed the slack in the ski to spindle and created a “centered” location that the ski rubber holds the ski in.
It was also mentioned that the spindle is tipped up. Does that mean that the angle is more vertical through the ball joints and ski mounting location? If so how was that achieved? A new upper a arm to move the upper ball joint location or a different ski mounting location vs ball joints?

It was said in one of the expert videos that the washout is reduced more from the front end than anything, I’m curious what’s actually different geometry
Wise or is it a better ski rubber only

NHRoadking · Mar 2, 2019

You need new spindles and skis and ski rubbers to duplicate the Expert front end. I am going to try the Durapro ski rubbers first.

caper11 · Mar 2, 2019

Munster ski bushing savers everyone.

NHRoadking · Mar 2, 2019

caper11 said:
Munster ski bushing savers everyone.

I run my skis centered so that is why I went with the Durapro ski dampers versus the Munsters.

TreeThrasher · Mar 2, 2019

I realize that’s what it takes to replicate.

But what is actually different? Geometry wise

caper11 · Mar 2, 2019

NHRoadking said:
I run my skis centered so that is why I went with the Durapro ski dampers versus the Munsters.

How are you liking the durapros, and the wider skis? I was thinking about doing that.

JH@CM · Mar 2, 2019

I widened stance and installed dura pros. Haven't looked back!

NHRoadking · Mar 2, 2019

caper11 said:
How are you liking the durapros, and the wider skis? I was thinking about doing that.

I've run the skis centered for years. It seems more consistent and stable to me. I like it.

ryanjeri · Mar 2, 2019

caper11 said:
Munster ski bushing savers everyone.

Which one's are using on your g4?

powdermuncher · Mar 2, 2019

Centred is way better for trail and high speed sections< but even my better halve prefers the narrow stance as it is s such easier handling in deep snow.

May not be as noticeable if yo are 200 + pounds but for a 120 pound lady it makes a huge difference. The narrow ski stance does put the ski inside of centre and any forces acting on the ski make the front end less stable V/S a cantered ski where there is no alignment change. The real answer would be a 1" narrower frond end so one could keep the ski centred with the narrower setting and have a more neutral tracking ski setup. I run aftermarket skis and shim them out on the rubber to keep the ski from lifting the tip to much in a carve or sidehill. This also helps deep snow performance by making the ski do the lifting fly going through the snow level instead of folding tip up plowing snow. I wish there were much stiffer ski rubbers for just that. this is the first I heard of a stiffer aftermarket one.
In the Snowbike world shimming your ski is standard practice for the guys in the know.

NHRoadking · Mar 3, 2019

powdermuncher said:
Centred is way better for trail and high speed sections< but even my better halve prefers the narrow stance as it is s such easier handling in deep snow.

May not be as noticeable if yo are 200 + pounds but for a 120 pound lady it makes a huge difference. The narrow ski stance does put the ski inside of centre and any forces acting on the ski make the front end less stable V/S a cantered ski where there is no alignment change. The real answer would be a 1" narrower frond end so one could keep the ski centred with the narrower setting and have a more neutral tracking ski setup. I run aftermarket skis and shim them out on the rubber to keep the ski from lifting the tip to much in a carve or sidehill. This also helps deep snow performance by making the ski do the lifting fly going through the snow level instead of folding tip up plowing snow. I wish there were much stiffer ski rubbers for just that. this is the first I heard of a stiffer aftermarket one.
In the Snowbike world shimming your ski is standard practice for the guys in the know.

Isn't the difference between centered and narrow only about a half inch? Doesn't seem like that could make much difference off trail.

Old Scud-doo · Mar 3, 2019

NHRoadking said:
You need new spindles and skis and ski rubbers to duplicate the Expert front end. I am going to try the Durapro ski rubbers first.

Ski’s? Thought it was just the rubbers and spindles.

NHRoadking · Mar 3, 2019

Old Scud-doo said:
Ski’s? Thought it was just the rubbers and spindles.

Skis are apparently different too to accommodate the new spindle and damper.

TreeThrasher · Mar 3, 2019

In the picture and in one of the videos norona said the expert spindle is more stood up. It appears to be in the pics. Does anyone know about this? To stand it up more at least one of the a arm mounting points needs to be different? Or did the ski bolt just get moved back?

Thanks

rab · Mar 3, 2019

In the 2020 access book it only shows the Spindles with some kind of square on the bottom of it ! ?
I could not find a listing for the skis or the new rear flat out flap .

The new smaller diameter handle bars are listed .

I’d like to try rack steering in mine to get rid of that bump steer twitch that want to yank the bars out of my hands when the front suspension compresses at an off angle !!!

NHRoadking · Mar 3, 2019

rab said:
In the 2020 access book it only shows the Spindles with some kind of square on the bottom of it ! ?
I could not find a listing for the skis or the new rear flat out flap .

The new smaller diameter handle bars are listed .

I’d like to try rack steering in mine to get rid of that bump steer twitch that want to yank the bars out of my hands when the front suspension compresses at an off angle !!!

Two biggest helpers for me: put bars in line w steering post; and center skis.

Summit74 · Mar 3, 2019

Frustrating that ski-doo hasn’t fully explained what they changed. All I’ve learned is that it so much better bla bla. How did they achieve the improvement is a valid question.

ak · Mar 3, 2019

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158352459087907&id=227460742906&anchor_composer=false

Best example I’ve found.

Shortline · Mar 3, 2019

Summit74 said:
Frustrating that ski-doo hasn’t fully explained what they changed. All I’ve learned is that it so much better bla bla. How did they achieve the improvement is a valid question.

Agree 100%. The simple fact is that those of us with 2017-2019 want to know 1) what is the complete front end change 2) can we duplicate on our sleds and 3) what parts (and cost) does it take to do so.

If there is a true geometry change was it accomplished only with the spindle or are the A-arms different?

Is the bottom of the spindle different? In other words is the spindle to rubber interface different? Or is the rubber just changed?

If there is no actual geometry change and just the rubber limiting the ski travel it seems that we would be able to very easily, and inexpensively, duplicate the Expert front end.

NHRoadking · Mar 3, 2019

ak said:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158352459087907&id=227460742906&anchor_composer=false

Best example I’ve found.

Interesting video. Thanks for posting that.

It will be interesting to hear if this change is really noticeable.

Expert front end changes

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