Timbersled or CMX

No one knows at this point. They got the CMX out late last year and only a couple people got to ride them. The front ski system does work better but not sure it will be quite as durable, I got to ride with the front end on a t sled setup and it works well. Should float better to.
I have a CMX belt drive on my sled build and Mark has always been easy to get parts from and usually has everything in stock. CMX should be more efficient as well. Have seen the individual parts first hand...they are NICE!
I wouldnt be to worried about the SFF forks the weight is still on both skis

Since this is CMX's first year available to the public (and the Raptor dual ski system) it is going to be really hard to give any real world statistics on which is going to be better. The question has been asked about the 4CS forks before in the past and Raptor/CMX reps have said they will work. We just need these two units out in the field for a season to see how everything shakes out. CMX is known for high quality stuff.

It's quite amazing how many new kits are coming on the market this year. I think this makes 5 manufacturers now? CMX, C3 Yeti, Mototrax, Snowtech, and Arctic Cat whom I don't believe will be actually selling kits for this snow season. Plus all the home built kits.... the market is getting very diverse quickly.

TS and CMX

Radski30 said:

Was down at the SLC snowshow, and looked at both the TS and CMX. Just curious to know what would be the best? The best one is the one you just shelled out a bunch of money on.

I had heard, that Mark sometimes can be a bit flakey, and hard to get parts from. Crazy Mountain Sports is in the business to make money. Selling kits or parts keeps the doors open.

They also said that the CMX Kit will free wheel in Nutral, where the TS won't because they have eliminated so much rotating mass.Are you sure you want to ask "free wheel in neutral? The UFO kit had no breaks because it would not free wheel. If your kit free wheels it uses less HP to turn it over, that s good stuff.

The twin ski seems like it will not work, especially with the new air forks, or KTM 4 chamber with the rebound on one side, and the compression on the other fork. It seems it might be a bit hard to tune?I can talk it up until I'm blue in the face. If you ride it you will like it. It is more friendly on the trail, dirt and floats great. Very responsive to rider input in all three, up hill-down hill and side hilling makes it shine. One caution...Mark mods the skis to make them work better. I don't know if Raptor does also.

Any feedback is helpful, as this is my first sno bike purchase.

Thanks in advance!

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As a first time rider the CMX will be the easiest to ride between the two. Get a demo ride on both and then decide for yourself. There are a few of us out there who have ridden both and many with advice without having ridden them.

I believe that the Dual Ski system is a Raptor product and not a CMX exclusive... They had them fitted to the Yeti, TS & CMX at Haydays.







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Of the two; I would buy neither. I personally do not care for the choices either one of them have made.

My money is on the Yeti for their design, their insistance on doing the proof of concept internally and making sure it was ready for market before actually putting it there and forcing the consumer to do the R&D for them. For the slight dollar difference, the Yeti is better than twice the value.

By comparison the TS is a redneck train wreck in fit, finish, and function. Every year another bandaid instead of spending the money up front to do it correctly. Releasing just enough of an improvement for the die hards to pawn their year old garbage cheap and buy the new version. I can't speak to the '16's but the '15 were still using keyed shafts. What kind of cheapskate moron would do that on that kind of scale? (hint:TS) Likely TS shaft are still Keyed.

I'm intrigued by the dual ski thing but it sure looks like a lot of moving parts to me.

M5

LoudHandle said:

Of the two; I would buy neither. I personally do not care for the choices either one of them have made.

My money is on the Yeti for their design, their insistance on doing the proof of concept internally and making sure it was ready for market before actually putting it there and forcing the consumer to do the R&D for them. For the slight dollar difference, the Yeti is better than twice the value.

By comparison the TS is a redneck train wreck in fit, finish, and function. Every year another bandaid instead of spending the money up front to do it correctly. releasing just enough of an improvement for the die hards to pawn their year old garbage cheap and by the new version. I can't speak to the '16's but the '15 were still using keyed shafts. What kind of cheapskate moron would do that on that kind of scale? (hint:TS) Likely still are Keyed.

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Yeah....Timbersled only totally revolutionized the snowbike platform to what all others are now using....total redneck train wreck for sure. I'm sure the 2016 kits are going function horribly.

jmtuccini said:

Yeah....Timbersled only totally revolutionized the snowbike platform to what all others are now using....total redneck train wreck for sure. I'm sure the 2016 kits are going function horribly.

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I never said they did not play a major role in starting the sport, but to keep buying their product on that fact alone is naive and uninformed.

My point was they are still using the same technology Today as they did when Allen made the first proof of concept one in his garage. You could build the same thing in your garage equally as cheap. A manufacture has the advantage of economy of scale and TS has not been using that to increase reliability nor consumer satisfaction, instead they choose to stick with the same problematic design and fleece the consumer. Now that they are being faced with some stiff competition, you can only hope the red neck train wreck will be getting some much needed (ten years overdue) improvements.

LoudHandle said:

My point was they are still using the same technology Today as they did when Allen made the first proof of concept one in his garage. You could build the same thing on your garage equally as cheap. A manufacture has the advantage of economy of scale and TS has not been using that to increase reliability nor consumer satisfaction, instead they choose to stick with the same problematic design and fleece the consumer. Now that they are being faced with some stiff competition, you can only hope the red neck train wreck will be getting some much needed (ten years overdue) improvements.

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If you think the 2011 kit is the same as the 2016 kit I'm guessing that legal weed up in Alaska has been hitting you hard. Come on dude.

Neither, after 5 season on a TS I now have a Yeti. coming for this year!!! Rode yeti 129 for 3 weeks last springs and it is a game changer in the steep and deep. I did the install and had a bunch of shop time wight he unit and was amazed at the fit and finsih and thinking behind each piece. So light, less rotating mass had me thinking my YZ 450 got some HP that I wasn't aware of. They take a serious beating.

My 02 cents

Rush44 said:

If you think the 2011 kit is the same as the 2016 kit I'm guessing that legal weed up in Alaska has been hitting you hard. Come on dude.

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First, We all know you are a TS Fan Boy (if not an employee)

Second, Although it may be legal, I've never touched the stuff. No drugs here, Legal or not! Don't even take Pharmaceuticals.

Third, The changes that have been made over the years are not the ones that were needed (I.E. Increase durability with the drive train, and get rid of the needless and detrimental torsion). The changes that were made were the fluff/ the ones to sell more new kits, because everyone expected to have to change shafts and bearings at least yearly, because TS gave them no other resolution to that.

Well in about 2 or 3 months all the silly prediction based forum rants will turn into actual reviews of actual performance. I look forward to reading reviews and watching videos. Should be fun.

Well of course I'm a MH fanboy. You are throwing that term out there like that's a bad thing. I'm going to express appreciation and joy for something that has given me such a great last 5 years after I left the snowmobile segment. I love snowbiking and I owe that to the MH... I think everyone here knows that. I've helped work with and develop snowbike tech for several groups now and it's just something I really enjoy doing. But unfortunately I have yet to help TS develop anything. I just ride a lot.

What you probably don't know, or maybe have long term memory loss from, is that I have railed on TS in the past over things that sucked. I have tried to remain honest and forthright in helping others and giving them thoughtful advice. I like Timbersled. I'll probably like several other kit manufacturer's products. Everyone has favorites as you do. I just try to keep from making any broad sweeping generalizations about things. I may shoot off at the mouth sometime, but that's all in good fun.

If you see any of those Timbersled checks heading this way please forward them on.... I haven't seen one make it to my mailbox yet!

Well I ride a timbersled, right now it's still the best because I haven't seen anybody out perform them on the snow. This season might change things, who knows... but until then I would pick timbersled over anyone else because nobody else has proven anything, yet. The cmx kit looks nice, I reserve judgement on the front end until I ride one in person and it is very wide which I don't like and fork rely on the front axle for support so I can see some issues coming from fork flex. The yeti kit looks really good but I will hold off until I see how reliability is, their kit looks polished but carbon can be great or absolutely horrible depending on construction. The biggest thing for me is all of the other kits run a 12" wide track and no third shock to let the kit pivot. After running a sxlt last year the lack of narrower track options and no 3rd shock are deal breakers for me.Run whatever kit you want, it's your money! I'm done running new stuff just to be the geniue pig for new products...

Radski30, If you want a rock solid, excellent performing kit, with great customer service, buy a TS. If you want to be adventuresome and take a chance on a kit in its first production year, buy something else. The TS flat out works, and if they weren't reliable, there would be many threads on here about it! They are the standard of the industry, that every new kit is gunning for.

I can't wait till I pick up my cmxbk! The quality is outstanding. I think you can't form an opinion until you have experienced all options. Very few have ridden the raptor front end, I have, and am excited for plush handling and am interested to see how it holds up.

screech said:

I can't wait till I pick up my cmxbk! The quality is outstanding. I think you can't form an opinion until you have experienced all options. Very few have ridden the raptor front end, I have, and am excited for plush handling and am interested to see how it holds up.

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That right there is what it's about...being excited to put your new "baby" on the snow...

Life is good... Please keep us in the loop with good ride reports and some pics!!


When is it supposed to snow again??

LoudHandle said:

Third, The changes that have been made over the years are not the ones that were needed (I.E. Increase durability with the drive train, and get rid of the needless and detrimental torsion).

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Sincere question LH... can you point us to threads or other info that would support your comment that the TS kits suffer from any kind of durability issues in drivetrain that are due to "needless and detrimental torsion" in the last two years of production? ... What leads you to believe that a keyed shaft would be inappropriate for a design of a snowbike with the horsepower, turbo included, that a snowbike can make?

I know that you are full supporter of C3, rightfully so, as you've had good luck with their products for your snowmobiles and their willingness to make you products as "one offs" ... and how this would lead you to be a full supporter of their snowbike offering in the Yeti product.

Of the snowbikes out there right now... what is your personal hands on experience with them?



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mountainhorse said:

Sincere question LH... can you point us to threads or other info that would support your comment that the TS kits suffer from any kind of durability issues in drivetrain that are due to "needless and detrimental torsion" in the last two years of production? ... What leads you to believe that a keyed shaft would be inappropriate for a design of a snowbike with the horsepower, turbo included, that a snowbike can make?

I know that you are full supporter of C3, rightfully so, as you've had good luck with their products for your snowmobiles and their willingness to make you products as "one offs" ... and how this would lead you to be a full supporter of their snowbike offering in the Yeti product.

Of the snowbikes out there right now... what is your personal hands on experience with them?
.

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First, You and Allen are friends so it is only right you should try and be his wing man and defend his products and choices. After all, either he named it for you or you got the nickname / moniker from him (Yes, I read that here too).

I've read plenty on of posts on the lack of durability inherent to the TS drive train; Specifically the shafts and bearings which are a result of torsional flex and a general lack of stiffness in the entire assembly. I do not save or bookmark everything I read so I can defend my opinion of the item in question. And even if I did; with SnoWest what it is, and their protectionism for certain preferred vendors the bad press / reviews would quite likely be eradicated prior to times like this.

When both the shafts, the key / keyway are twisted and rolled and next to impossible to remove / replace without cutting them in multiple pieces to remove (from posts I've read), that indicates to me that the shafts are too soft and should have been heat treated and that they should have been machined to tighter tolerances so the key does not roll in the keyway. My guess is the key is too short and the sprocket is also too narrow to live in that application from the reports of that occurring. When the single bearing setup is getting wiped out and they just throw a double bearing setup at it. In lieu of spending some money to increase the quality / stiffness of the shafts and the mounting points; that is a bandaid approach, as I've previously stated.

I don't own a bike nor any of the "kits" for them, for one simple reason; the biggest attraction for a snow bike kit manufacture is to use an existing platform that already meets emissions requirements, so they don't have to invest any real expense into their "kit". That is also the largest draw back to them all, IMO as well, because the balance / performance will never be correct with a bike designed to be balanced on wheels.

My opinions are solely based on sound engineering principals and 35+ years working in the mechanical arena for a living, and having to fix stupid ill conceived designs to insure 99-100 percent reliability for the corporations I've been employed by.