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-   -   New to snowbikes (https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=443215)

Climb13 09-09-2018 06:32 AM

New to snowbikes
 
Hey there Iím new to the whole dirt bike industry. Iíve been snowmobiling for years, my son wanted to start riding dirt bikes. So I have decided to sell my sleds and go the snow bike route my questions are.
250 or 450?
Is there anything I should do to the bike to make it more suited for a snow bike
And finally I was thinking the timbersled aro 120 kit, any pros or cons

Misha Subo 09-09-2018 07:05 AM

Welcome. You will need to give more specifics about the terrain and general area you and your son plan to ride in. We are here are in Southern Ontario. I think the Camso unit is best suited to our trails (trees) along with our KTM 300s. If you are in more mountainous areas, perhaps a 4T 450 would be better? The shorter Aro 120 track is going to turn better than its 129 counterpart but with not as much traction on the deep climbs.


On the other hand, the Camso 129 track offers a great mix of traction and steering, as it has a single rail and allows the whole track to tilt on side hills and turns. I have only tried the Yetis by comparison. IMO go with a more cost effective entry like Camso and upgrade to a lighter unit later if you feel the need.


So, in the end it's complicated. There is no blanket solution. Only a specific prescription.

Climb13 09-09-2018 09:36 AM

Thanks for the info I live in southern Minnesota but do make 2 trips a year out west most of the riding would be in fields and ditches and in the summer mostly trail riding

assaultn 09-09-2018 09:42 PM

Welcome to the sport! A few more questions. How much Moto have you and your boy done? How many hrs a year do you expect to put on each bike?
How mechanically inclined are you? What type of Sledder are you? Gotta push the pace and lead the pack or happy pushing a mid pack machine to the limit? It is very important to think about these things and be honest with yourself. snowbikes are a lot like modding sleds used to be before turbos. You spend a ton of money on mods and gadgets for horsepower gains.

If heading west a few times a year, flat landing at home and trail riding in summer a yz450fx is your weapon. The fx is a capable machine in the hills, has a little more gearing for flat landing and is a fantastic trail bike for a 450. The power is there but has excellent manners. Electric start with kick backup, large stator, great airbox setup for snowbikes and Yamaha reliable!! This bike won't beat up on some of the others in the hills but definitely hangs right in there.

As for the kit, Misha's suggestion of the camso is a good one based on the price. We have 1 in our group mounted to the bike mentioned above and it has performed quite well. Only downside to that kit that we found was the ski while on the hard pack trails. Our group of riders are very equal in skill set and though the trail up is not our favorite part of the day, we do have a good time racing, bumping and grinding in the corners. Every rider in our group is a fair amount slower on the trail while on that setup. This includes the owner that has a tonne of seat time on it. When I swapped bikes with him I just assumed he didn't like riding fast on the trail but instantly realized that the ski was much harder to trust while going into corners at high speed. He easily gained an extra gear through the corners on my yeti instantly. We tried quite a few setup changes to fix this and it did help some but still lacks in this department compared to the yeti and aero. Once off trail all 3 kits are very comparable for medium duty riding. The camso lacks for handling big drops ect but most will be happy with it's performance off the trail. I ride yeti and love the products performance but simply can't recommend them based on reliability and customer service. All this said, I would recommend the new aero 129 if you are willing to spend a little more on the kit. Works pretty good in all areas and very reliable with spindle fix. If cost is King, camso all the way and you will still be having a good time.

Start with these simple mods for winter and go from there.

Seat concepts seat(must!)
Intake
Thermostat
Revv up engine blanket
Skid plate
Temp meter
Light
Handguards
Pipe shield
Heated bars(luxury)

Revv Up 09-09-2018 10:14 PM

Is that a 4 stroke 250 or a 2 stroke, I would think a 4 stroke would be extremely docile while a 2 stroke could be an awesome weapon.

Sheetmetalfab 09-09-2018 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assaultn (Post 4159113)
Welcome to the sport! A few more questions. How much Moto have you and your boy done? How many hrs a year do you expect to put on each bike?
How mechanically inclined are you? What type of Sledder are you? Gotta push the pace and lead the pack or happy pushing a mid pack machine to the limit? It is very important to think about these things and be honest with yourself. snowbikes are a lot like modding sleds used to be before turbos. You spend a ton of money on mods and gadgets for horsepower gains.

If heading west a few times a year, flat landing at home and trail riding in summer a yz450fx is your weapon. The fx is a capable machine in the hills, has a little more gearing for flat landing and is a fantastic trail bike for a 450. The power is there but has excellent manners. Electric start with kick backup, large stator, great airbox setup for snowbikes and Yamaha reliable!! This bike won't beat up on some of the others in the hills but definitely hangs right in there.

As for the kit, Misha's suggestion of the camso is a good one based on the price. We have 1 in our group mounted to the bike mentioned above and it has performed quite well. Only downside to that kit that we found was the ski while on the hard pack trails. Our group of riders are very equal in skill set and though the trail up is not our favorite part of the day, we do have a good time racing, bumping and grinding in the corners. Every rider in our group is a fair amount slower on the trail while on that setup. This includes the owner that has a tonne of seat time on it. When I swapped bikes with him I just assumed he didn't like riding fast on the trail but instantly realized that the ski was much harder to trust while going into corners at high speed. He easily gained an extra gear through the corners on my yeti instantly. We tried quite a few setup changes to fix this and it did help some but still lacks in this department compared to the yeti and aero. Once off trail all 3 kits are very comparable for medium duty riding. The camso lacks for handling big drops ect but most will be happy with it's performance off the trail. I ride yeti and love the products performance but simply can't recommend them based on reliability and customer service. All this said, I would recommend the new aero 129 if you are willing to spend a little more on the kit. Works pretty good in all areas and very reliable with spindle fix. If cost is King, camso all the way and you will still be having a good time.

Start with these simple mods for winter and go from there.

Seat concepts seat(must!)
Intake
Thermostat
Revv up engine blanket
Skid plate
Temp meter
Light
Handguards
Pipe shield
Heated bars(luxury)

What he said.
Use the jay marmount map in the yz450fx

Yamaha reliability is real.

Aro 120 or a raw for budget minded. (Hard to beat 3k brand new)

AZ800 09-09-2018 10:41 PM

450 4T or a 300/350 2T for an adult. Put a track on a bike and it sucks about half the power your used to when on wheels.

assaultn 09-10-2018 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheetmetalfab (Post 4159118)
What he said.
Use the jay marmount map in the yz450fx

Yamaha reliability is real.

Aro 120 or a raw for budget minded. (Hard to beat 3k brand new)



After seeing your post, I would agree. A hold over raw kit with a yeti/aero ski update would be a better economy kit than the camso.

Climb13 09-10-2018 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by assaultn (Post 4159113)
Welcome to the sport! A few more questions. How much Moto have you and your boy done? How many hrs a year do you expect to put on each bike?
How mechanically inclined are you? What type of Sledder are you? Gotta push the pace and lead the pack or happy pushing a mid pack machine to the limit? It is very important to think about these things and be honest with yourself. snowbikes are a lot like modding sleds used to be before turbos. You spend a ton of money on mods and gadgets for horsepower gains.

If heading west a few times a year, flat landing at home and trail riding in summer a yz450fx is your weapon. The fx is a capable machine in the hills, has a little more gearing for flat landing and is a fantastic trail bike for a 450. The power is there but has excellent manners. Electric start with kick backup, large stator, great airbox setup for snowbikes and Yamaha reliable!! This bike won't beat up on some of the others in the hills but definitely hangs right in there.

As for the kit, Misha's suggestion of the camso is a good one based on the price. We have 1 in our group mounted to the bike mentioned above and it has performed quite well. Only downside to that kit that we found was the ski while on the hard pack trails. Our group of riders are very equal in skill set and though the trail up is not our favorite part of the day, we do have a good time racing, bumping and grinding in the corners. Every rider in our group is a fair amount slower on the trail while on that setup. This includes the owner that has a tonne of seat time on it. When I swapped bikes with him I just assumed he didn't like riding fast on the trail but instantly realized that the ski was much harder to trust while going into corners at high speed. He easily gained an extra gear through the corners on my yeti instantly. We tried quite a few setup changes to fix this and it did help some but still lacks in this department compared to the yeti and aero. Once off trail all 3 kits are very comparable for medium duty riding. The camso lacks for handling big drops ect but most will be happy with it's performance off the trail. I ride yeti and love the products performance but simply can't recommend them based on reliability and customer service. All this said, I would recommend the new aero 129 if you are willing to spend a little more on the kit. Works pretty good in all areas and very reliable with spindle fix. If cost is King, camso all the way and you will still be having a good time.

Start with these simple mods for winter and go from there.

Seat concepts seat(must!)
Intake
Thermostat
Revv up engine blanket
Skid plate
Temp meter
Light
Handguards
Pipe shield
Heated bars(luxury)

Thanks for the input as for hours I was thinking 20-30 a year, he is just getting into some light racing nothing to major yet. Iíve mainly been looking into ktms because thatís what a few of my friends ride. As for being mechanical Iím not great I can do basic maintenance of a sled and have ran aftermarket parts but I have never built a true mod sled

Sheetmetalfab 09-10-2018 06:55 PM

New to snowbikes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Climb13 (Post 4159266)
Thanks for the input as for hours I was thinking 20-30 a year, he is just getting into some light racing nothing to major yet. Iíve mainly been looking into ktms because thatís what a few of my friends ride. As for being mechanical Iím not great I can do basic maintenance of a sled and have ran aftermarket parts but I have never built a true mod sled

2016+ Ktmís arenít bad reliability wise if you know the bikes history.
They donít like extended rev limiter sessions.

Personally I wouldnít buy a used ktm 4t with more than 10-15 hours on it.

Call a 75 hour ktm a liability when snowbiking.......
(Think broken rods)

Yamaha will get 150-175 hours before even adjusting valves.
(Feed it the rev limiter often)

Green and yellow are similar to the orange in the longevity department. (If not worse)

Donít touch a honda older than 17. (Think heavy and underpowered)
(Honda needs the most help mapping wise for winter use) even the 17+

assaultn 09-10-2018 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Climb13 (Post 4159266)
Thanks for the input as for hours I was thinking 20-30 a year, he is just getting into some light racing nothing to major yet. Iíve mainly been looking into ktms because thatís what a few of my friends ride. As for being mechanical Iím not great I can do basic maintenance of a sled and have ran aftermarket parts but I have never built a true mod sled

I run Ktm on the snow only because there are the most mods and build packages available for them that have been thouroughly tested. I have had good luck with them and our group is primarily orange but we do have one stock 450fx in the pack and it has been bullet proof. If I was running relatively stock that would be the direction I would go.

Your son may be hesitant to go the fx route if racing but rest assured that bike is also fully track capable. I run a 250fx this summer and was worried about track performance as well but ended up really liking it. It will not perform to the needs of a super aggressive track rider but performs perfectly fine for the average Joe. I shaved quite a bit of time off my single track laps on the fx as well compared to my full Moto setup. Just remember to zip tie the kick stand up or remove it when doing big hits. I learned that the hard way. Landing a 120'er with the kick stand down does not end well😎


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