Sled skiing tips/questions

Jlager · Dec 12, 2011

I just bought my first sled ever, a 2002 Polaris RMK 800, 1800 miles with a 156 track. The intent was to go sled-skiing with a friend and I have a ton of questions I'm hoping you guys could clarify:

- Is this a good sled for this purpose? I couldn't really afford anything nicer.

- What is the best way to get two people to the top using this sled? Can I put one person infront of me sitting down and then stand behind them and drive? Or, should we learn to tandem and stand one person per side?

- Is it possible to tow people using a rope? I know this works on flat ground but is it possible up a hill as well? If so, what kind of rope would you use and where would you attach it to the sled?

- Is it a bad idea to ride with ski helmets? A bit of a hassle to bring two sets of helmets. I don't plan to do any crazy riding, at least not when sled skiing. Just pick a hill and do laps on it following the same path.

Any other tips from people that have been doing this a lot?

tomx · Dec 12, 2011

My 0.2c:

Jlager said:
I just bought my first sled ever, a 2002 Polaris RMK 800, 1800 miles with a 156 track. The intent was to go sled-skiing with a friend and I have a ton of questions I'm hoping you guys could clarify:

- Is this a good sled for this purpose? I couldn't really afford anything nicer.

Everyone's got their take, but I've pretty much told my friends through out the years, anything that gets you out there is a start. You've got a good start. What kinda of terrain you want to access is only limited by your willingness to get there. Sled skill accompanied with better tools make it easier, but you got a sled, thats a start. Pack some touring skis and muscle the last 1000ft if you can't get there with your sled.

- What is the best way to get two people to the top using this sled? Can I put one person infront of me sitting down and then stand behind them and drive? Or, should we learn to tandem and stand one person per side?

This really depends on the terrain and snow conditions. Most times you can save a ton of energy by riding two-up, or as it's affectionately called by my crew, nutt-to-butt. Have passenger hug up on the steering post close as possible and stand over them. When you gotta negotiate the sled, pow is deep, it's easier to ride tandem (one person standing on either side), driver on the throttle, passenger with hand on the mtn bar. Sometimes we'll punch a nice trail in, then nutt-to-butt the rest of the time once the track is set, mostly just to save energy.

- Is it possible to tow people using a rope? I know this works on flat ground but is it possible up a hill as well? If so, what kind of rope would you use and where would you attach it to the sled?

I've never found tow rope to be to effective unless you are just towing forest roads, into a kicker or some specific feature where there's a short tow in, or speed needed. On forest roads it'll work to get your friend out to the zone, but he's gonna get beat to **** on the way. We've used standard water ski rope, tied to the rear bumper. Make it just long enough to stay out of track spray. I've heard of using a bike tube to lessen the yank factor, but never tried it. We use this technique about once a season on spring kicker session.

- Is it a bad idea to ride with ski helmets? A bit of a hassle to bring two sets of helmets. I don't plan to do any crazy riding, at least not when sled skiing. Just pick a hill and do laps on it following the same path.

Is it a bad idea to die via concussion? You gotta answer that one. Something like 90% (don't quote me) of sled accidents are head on collisions. I'm more worried about getting plowed on the way to the zone then once I get there. I'm a 100% helmet dude at resort, in BC with sled I'd much rather have a good sled helmet than ski helmet, they just aren't made for that kinda impact. I rock a beanie when dropping lines, probably not the best plan as if I got caught in slide, chances of bouncing the dome off something solid is pretty high. A lot of days, I ride more sled then shred, so I always go to wards sled safety first.

Any other tips from people that have been doing this a lot?

Get a rack, check out Lushbombs post in this forum on how to make them with gun racks on the cheap. Other than that, fan out, get a crew going. Not a lot of sled shredders out there, so people that do are usually pretty stoked to get a few more in the posse. Having a buddy to dig you out, drag your jacked sled home, is a good plan, **** goes wrong really easy out there. Get some avy training if you haven't already. Welcome!

rhalloran · Dec 12, 2011

Jlager said:
I just bought my first sled ever, a 2002 Polaris RMK 800, 1800 miles with a 156 track. The intent was to go sled-skiing with a friend and I have a ton of questions I'm hoping you guys could clarify:

- Is this a good sled for this purpose? I couldn't really afford anything nicer.

I don't know the ins and outs of that particular sled, but AFAIK, it is a decent sled, and my primary sled til this season was an 03 Skidoo 700, originally 144", now 156" track. It served us very well; I'd think that'd be a very good sled, at least.

Jlager said:
- What is the best way to get two people to the top using this sled? Can I put one person infront of me sitting down and then stand behind them and drive? Or, should we learn to tandem and stand one person per side?

Depends. If it is anything like my 03 700, put 4-6" of riser on it. That made a WORLD of difference on mine, and the RMK and Summit of that era are kinda "Coke and Pepsi." More the same than different, really. We typically "Canadian," unless we're just covering ground on groomed roads, in which case we get comfy with each other sitting down. Not comfortable, but less tiring than standing.

One in front is good, but IME, the person sitting in front has to be SMALL. My daughter is 13, 5' and 80#. She's ok, but her helmet is in my face. One of the other girls we ride with is 5'3", 105 (maybe), and with her pack on, she's more in the way than not, but if I need to get her up something gnarly, I put her in front, then back to Canadian/tandeming.

Whoever is on the sled with you needs to know when to lean and how much - the passenger is FAR more active than you'd think. I've got my kid trained to move to the correct (uphill) side of the seat, and when she forgets I _know_. She's tiny, but where her 80# is interacting with the sleds MATTERS (and I'm freaking heavy - you'd think I'd counteract, nope....). I make anyone new come out on a crappy day to learn the basics of sledding - I've had two GOOD days shot because Joe Soandso "I rode sleds in Minnesota!" was a clown and could not ride, at ALL - did not even _get_ to the goods.

(I underestimated how weird sleds are, too, pot calling kettle black, whatever)

Jlager said:
- Is it possible to tow people using a rope? I know this works on flat ground but is it possible up a hill as well? If so, what kind of rope would you use and where would you attach it to the sled?

We use climbing rope and climbing harnesses. We f'd around with innertubes and shock cord and all sorts of crap, settled on a 10mm climbing rope with a loop about 3' from the end. Tail through a carabiner, back through the loop, back through the biner, towee grabs the whole thing with one hand. A couple of loops through makes it so you don't have to squeeze that tight to keep it from slipping, but let go = no tow. Perfect.

The rope needs to be shorter than you think - too long, and if the skier starts catching the sled, the skier cannot take up enough slack and gets their pelvis ripped out - and the pelting is not that much worse up close (20' or so, tops).

You can tow 3 people on groomers/relatively flat with that sled, I'd guess. I've towed 2 up some fairly steep groomers. We don't tow often (it sucks), and pretty much ONLY on groomers. Singletracks are either too windy or too steep. Towing is good for flat approaches to get people out to the zone, and that's about it. You can tow pretty fast, though - 30mph+ is pretty reasonable. The only belt I've blown was after a LONG day of towing, and the towee was "waterskiing" behind the sled - I think the random, varied loads overheated the belt and bOOM! It went big. So, when we do tow, I mandate that those being towed try to keep from screwing around back there, put constant, even load on the sled.

We just tie the rope/s to the bumper. Nothing fancy.

Jlager said:
- Is it a bad idea to ride with ski helmets? A bit of a hassle to bring two sets of helmets. I don't plan to do any crazy riding, at least not when sled skiing. Just pick a hill and do laps on it following the same path.

Any other tips from people that have been doing this a lot?

I wear a ski helmet. I feel underhelmeted once in a while, so I back off a bit. GENERALLY speaking, you're going pretty slow, and not really screwing around. A moto helmet is a better idea, but I'm ok with a ski helmet - my head and stuff.

The gun racks will break, you won't get change for a nickel out of those when they break. PM me your email address, will send you pictures of what I built this fall.

MAINTAIN THE SLED. Make sure it is up to snuff, bring spare plugs, etc.

Find people with sleds, or set expectations of costs - sled skiing is expensive.

There's a ton to learn, I've learned a lot and I've got a lot more to do; starting my fourth season of sled skiing. It is VERY worthwhile. Where are you?

RH

rhalloran · Dec 12, 2011

Oh, and on towing - last year, we discovered that 2 ON the sled, one towing was WAY easier on the sled than two tow/one drive. Not exactly sure why, but with two towing, the sled was working REALLY hard, spinning the track, etc. Two ON the sled, dope on the rope? Track gets better traction, get up stuff easier, etc.

Jlager · Dec 12, 2011

Thanks for the advice!

Ideally I would've eventually wanted four of us to sled ski just using one sled but it sounds like this may be a real hassle? I guess you can take them up one at a time once you get to where you're going to ski but it seems like a lot of waiting around. Maybe still fun though?

Mostly it will be just myself and my girlfriend though.

I'm in Whistler, BC by the way. I have some backcountry experience and have avi training and gear etc but never on a sled.

Carbon77 · Dec 12, 2011

I'd echo what bot ph of the previous guys said.

I've got friends with way less than you got for a sled, really the sled does not matter, it's how you ride it, most of them use it to get out to the "zone" then just park them and we use the bigger sleds for tow ins or drop offs.

Ropes are useful, I always keep one with me, its bout 15' long, shorter for the trees and longer for the trails. I've towed friends 6 miles out to a zone before if they want to do it, it's there. I find ropes are the fastest way to do "laps" at a specific place, instead of throwing the boards on the rack every time.

Riding 2 up is an art, seriously, practice is key for who you're going to ride with, I've gt 2 friends I can boondock with, but at first it was hard because we were always fighting each other. We ride on both sides of the sled. Communication is key, otherwise you are going to get stuck and wear yourself out.

I ride with a ski helmet all the time, unless I'm specifically going to snowmobile and nothing else. I know it's a risk, and I'm willing to take it. I feel like I have way better vision with the ski helmet on than my motorcycle helmet too. No one wants to carry 2 helmets.

rhalloran · Dec 12, 2011

4 on one sled will be tricky. IDEALLY, everyone has their own sled. I have two, and we try to stick with 4 or fewer, occasionally (special occasions) 6 - two tow out, then we figure out who does what.

It depends on terrain, access, etc. You might get away with 4/1, two on, two tow, but it'd have to be a pretty mellow approach to the drop to do that. Shuttling people up one at a time would kinda suck.

3 people seems more workable - two on, one tow, ski in pairs, rotate driver. Again, approach would matter; you may well need to have the towee drop off at the steep bit(s?), go back and pick up. It really depends on your zone.

That said, it should not be too hard to find a group to hook up with.

Or, buy a second sled.....the first three years, we had two; the 03 700 and a 99 670x. We got a LOT of good skiing off those two sleds, only one day was too deep for what we had.

You'll have a lot of fun with that sled, though.

Rendal · Dec 12, 2011

Get some scratchers.

dre · Dec 16, 2011

so far

good advice from folks so far.

Get or make a snowboard rack. Carrying it on your back gets old & tiring.
A rack with ratchet straps or other quick-closures is key. Spending time wrapping bungee cords around your gear is time that could be spend making turns.

My rule of thumb: one sled per person getting to the location. Run a track/trail/road in where you want to lap, prior to two-upping the location.In deep snow it can take a few laps to put in a packed-down trail. Then double up on the best sleds you have.

I've tried a bunch of ways to two-up. Canadian (side by side) works best in most cases...esp for steep uphills...my crew rarely tow or go bitch (front/back). If you communicate & act as a team side buy side works great. 2 dudes on m crew even jump the sled side by side.

The climbing rope & bike tire set-up works ok on mellow terrain. But I'd only use that when you really need to. It's hard work on the boarder/skier & sled rider. It's doesn't work on steep uphills in deep snow. Doesn't!

Helmets: personal preference. I hate them in general, but use a full face helmet on my sled getting to the location. Don't wear one on my board ever. My goal is powder riding, so generally a helmet is not that necessary IMO.
Here' a bit of what to expect...
http://vimeo.com/32186865

dre · Dec 16, 2011

this is kinda boring footage, but gives you an idea of how we do it
http://vimeo.com/32186663

kyle.B. · Dec 16, 2011

thats some sweet footage at revy

Jlager · Dec 16, 2011

dre said:
My rule of thumb: one sled per person getting to the location.

That's the only thing that's going to be an issue since we only have one sled but the area we will be in is mostly groomed by a nearby snowmobile club so I think we might be ok towing on the groomed trails until we close to where we will be skiing, maybe?

dre said:
Helmets: personal preference. I hate them in general, but use a full face helmet on my sled getting to the location. Don't wear one on my board ever. My goal is powder riding, so generally a helmet is not that necessary IMO.

I think my main concern with the helmet was the avalanche danger. I don't think I'm likely to hit my head just skiing but I understand being taken into trees/rocks by even a small avi is not nice if you don't have a helmet.

Lushbomb · Dec 16, 2011

dre said:
Here' a bit of what to expect...
http://vimeo.com/32186865

FUN!!!!

I so need to go to canada!! :canada:.

dre · Dec 18, 2011

yup, Canada has the goods....our trip to Revy was epic. 3000 ft laps in blower pow. Definately a leg burner.

dre · Dec 18, 2011

Jlager said:
That's the only thing that's going to be an issue since we only have one sled but the area we will be in is mostly groomed by a nearby snowmobile club so I think we might be ok towing on the groomed trails until we close to where we will be skiing, maybe?
Sounds good. Wish I had groomed trails to use.

I think my main concern with the helmet was the avalanche danger. I don't think I'm likely to hit my head just skiing but I understand being taken into trees/rocks by even a small avi is not nice if you don't have a helmet.

If you don't mind wearing one, you should. It makes sense.

troweller · Dec 19, 2011

Pack a steep smooth straight superhighway, preferably with no trees.
If you are scared riding your sled down the super highway, you are doing good.
Let it set up.
Tandem at Full Throttle, using CFR Rack, Hold on Tight
If it takes more than 15 minutes to get 1500 foot vert laps, Find a better spot.
Don't Shuttle on bumpy roads.

Goinboardin · Dec 19, 2011

I towed my first season. It sucks. I simply quit inviting more than one person to ride on my sled, and usually don't take anyone on my sled these days. My advice is to ride Canadian. As was mentioned, put in a track alone at first, and it probably will take a couple passes. Wait a little bit, then ride tandem up it. Your sled will work pretty well. I had basically the same sled last season but a 159 with SLP twin pipes and it got around great. They just take more effort to manhandle compared to the newish sleds, but the power is there.

Once you get really sick of digging your sled out and not riding the really sick terrain, buy/make a splitboard (or if you ski get an A/T setup). I've literally beat sleds to the top by skinning up while they spent 2 hours trying to put in a track. But usually the stuff we skin up is just too steep for sledding (most of the mountains around me don't have a mellow approach from any direction, so unless you're on a 300hp w/ 174x3 you're not going to get up it if the snow is decent).

Anyway, its alot of fun! Be safe, and enjoy the backcountry!

specialk6r · Dec 25, 2011

1) The longer you're around sled necks the more bad you'll hear about that 800 liberty motor that's in your sled. There's a small industry built around keeping their cranks together. Interestingly, RMK700s (except for the 05-06 which was actually a 755) are amazingly reliable. I'd sell it and get something with a much better track record, like any 700 or a Cat 800.

2) The lower your expectations of where that sled will get you, the better time you'll have. For maximum fun you're looking for a very gentle hill to sled up and a steep face to ride down. That's more rare than you'd think. Don't expect to be hitting all the big faces you've been dreaming of from the road without skins or a helicopter.

3) Wear a full face helmet. A sled has a lot of inertia and it takes next to nothing to smash your face in. Just yesterday I was just dropping into a steep hill and found a hidden rock. Even though I was only at walking pace I still went over the bars and got beating by the sled for the next 100 ft. It's better to have gear and not need it than need it and not have it.

4) One sled is NOT ENOUGH. Sleds break down all the time. A 30 mile sled ride in isn't bad, but trying to walk out at night could kill you. And relying on passing strangers to tow you out/save you life is, to put it lightly, kind of douchey.

kartorium · Dec 26, 2011

I used basically that same sled for a season, it actually worked very well and I had zero problems. At the very end of the season I had to change the belt, but I was hauling around some big guys too.

The biggest thing I can say, which hasn't been said enough, is get this notion of one sled and four people out of your head. Being out in the backcountry with one sled is bad enough, then add that many people into the equation and you're asking for trouble. The sled will break, you will get stranded and everyone will suddenly be very unhappy. It could even turn into life or death situation if you select the wrong zone or terrain. You can get very deep into the BC in a hurry on a sled, getting back easily becomes a huge problem if you only have one.

Towing works fine, but limit it to groomers or flat areas. Towing in wide open zones with low angles works ok as well, just use your brain. Also limit tows to short distances. As has been mentioned, long distances wear the sled out and the skier/boarder being pulled.

Ghosting is ideal, but depending on your available terrain it often is not an option.

Do recon missions, set goals for ski days, pick the terrain you want and be ok with settling sometimes. Like has been said, if you start noticing how long it takes to do a lap or get someone to the top you might be in a bad zone for sled laps.

Lastly, I'll say that sledding and sled skiing is all about having fun, problem solving, and staying safe. The beauty of sled skiing is that if you're not having fun on skis, you can probably change the terrain to make it better, or if the snow is just plain bad for skiing you can still have fun on the sled. Problem solving, if you can't stop and think about a situation, develop a logical plan, and commit to it then don't even bother starting the sport. Safety, so many points here I'll spare you. Just use your head, and for Eff's sake get a riding partner or another sled!

kartorium · Dec 26, 2011

Oh, and lastly. Don't be a *****.

Bottom line is that the throttle is your friend. Of all the things I wish could be transferred through telepathy or touch or some ****, this concept of throttle control, fluidity, aggressiveness, and looking ahead all rolled into one huge *** commitment burrito. Don't half *** things. Always commit to your lines and actions.

I'm gonna call this burrito of character the Swollen Member Burrito. Both after SM's as they seem to embody these characteristics, and because a swollen member is the farthest thing possible from a *****.

Damn snowest. Synonyms of above words in order; Vagina, poo, butt, butt, Vagina.

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