RMSHA Racers Needed!

[Racer220]

Spot on.

Bring on the snow. Spoasta be 100 tomorrow in Cheyenne. I'm gunna crawl in my fridge and take a nap.

Syko

It is frikkin hot today lol. Lame................ I'll tell you what. Jackson is without a doubt the most mind bending line to be sitting on. Going to the first cat walk was like any other day for me, but that's because we race that style of course all year long. I was definitely surprised though at how slick it was for being 60+ degrees out. 50+ guys in the Non-Pro Masters and Amateurs go up, and probably 50% didn't have any traction makes for an ice rink of a run. There is no true experience that can match Snow King though. I'll second that notion about winning the lottery. Not holding my breath but if it happened you would see my trailer going a ton of places every winter. And I will gladly send anyone pictures of me golfing in San Diego all summer if needs be HA....

Roughrider99. You will definitely have a challenge ahead of you getting down here to races, but if you can pull it off I say go for it. It's a sacrifice any weekend you give up freeriding to race, but if it means getting to experience the hillclimb race world I don't think you will regret it. If it is something that works out for you, then it's just a matter of deciding how to make it possible. If you have any questions feel free to post them up. Search the other RMSHA threads as well, there is a ton of great info out there.

 

[109RMSHA]

Im glad to hear all the coments about racing. Mitch you do a great job of being on middle ground for RMSHA thanks. I hope that people find out that you dont need to roll in to the races and keep up with the Jones as they say. I no for a fact that the fastest guys started out simple and built themselves up. Ive been racing for some time know and can say that It is all in a guys or girls head on how they do on race day. I will present these post to the board meeting as soon as it is held soon I hope. Keep up the Ideas guys.

 

[Racer220]

Thanks man. I hope they throw out a date so we can plan on it. I'll be there for sure. Not even able to say if I can race this year or not except for Jackson, but still helps to stay in the know.

 

[sgtX]

I have thought about racing being a freerider myself would like to try it, but what everyone else is saying money for parts and getting there, alil shy maybe if I didn't ride all season I could make one, or
how bout keep the tour for the pro's and set up some local digs for some begginners such as myself, if there was one in your back yard for a local beginner class, and hold a couple of races a year, I would try to get there for a couple of races, and probably attract more, it wouldn't be an arm and a leg to travel with the circuit, and could run maybe an older sled, cause I know I don't have money for 4-5 grand sled to start out with.

 

[Racer220]

sgtX - The benefit to where you are at is it wouldn't take much to get up to Beaver Mtn., or possibly the Powder Mtn. race if that one doesn't disappear. Both have an Amateur class that you can race in without going through the process of most of the RMSHA rules. That is the most minimal cost way of experiencing a hillclimb race and will give you a lot of info on how things work.

 

[sykosledhead]

To be fair

I see we all are working different perspectives here. We need to clarify what is "new riders in RMSHA"?
I am implying one that competes at most of the races. It seems 220 is looking at a rider making a race or two. Big difference. Also if we are talking “compete”, it means having the comparable sled, ie: turbo vs non-turbo vs pipes vs stock. Big differences here. You can have these differences because most will run in Amateurs or Semi-pro. This doesn't include getting to and from the races. Then let’s assume you have an enclosed trailer to sleep in. Great most of these are things you already have. My version of average rider isn't toten these toys around. But obviously yours does. Don't get me wrong I have more money in my sled than my Tahoe and trailer combined. I am looking at getting back on the line at Jackson and that is one race. Big difference than making the circuit. 220, you obviously have enough modern toys to be able to "miss work and go". The average rider is struggling to get to Jackson to begin with, in my terms. You would have to admit, your version of average is much different than mine. A tank of fuel for my turbo is $60-90 depending on my combinations. My mod runs Av gas only. I don't treat my Tahoe this nice. All the extra parts needed to be able to fix something if it breaks, way more than the average rider is capable of affording, to me.

And this all comes down to the terms average and be able to compete. Maybe most top teams get their riders from guys who started out solo, on their own dime. But to me the average rider isn't capable to get a start just by taking a day off work and stopping by the local race either.

You say you can do it, but my point is, you’re not the true representation of the average rider, nor is 109 either, to me. Whether you admit it, I say most realize racing is expensive and when the economy is as bad as it is, good luck convincing anyone to spend their cash to try to “compete”. It seems your racing is your version of vacation. Ask yourself, how many “average” riders take a vacation 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 times (races) in the winter. I work and plan all year to make Jackson only. This is not for the average, in my terms.

This a notice to all, stop by 109 and 220 outfits at Jackson this year and see how an average rider races. I will stop by.

syko

 

[Racer220]

AVERAGE RIDERS LOOKING TO RACE PLEASE CHIME IN!!!!!

Alright, let's scratch the whole topic of what each person considers/assumes/interprets as to what an 'average rider' is. Based on the analogy of what a new RMSHA member is attempting to do here are some numbers. We will assume the person has a reliable enough vehicle to get to each race and a way to haul at least one sled, but will have to upgrade to a near current model sled. Some numbers may vary. Skill will determine whether more money needs spent to be more competitive or not. I know brand new guys that have qualified and placed top 10 on the most minimal setups (almost identical to what's listed below). No fancy rigs, taking time away from work, having to buy up a sled, no spare parts, no idea of how to set things up, etc... This is a bare minimum example of what most people should expect if they want to enter RMSHA 'full time' and be competitive. Until the economy changes or new policies are in place for the circuit, most of these numbers will not change even if accessibility to races expands to more sites. Chances are they could continue to go up in cost. All costs considered, a rider would need to conservatively plan on spending $13-$15,000 to race an avg. 6 event season on the circuit starting from scratch.


New Member, upgrading sleds, racing 6 races not including Jackson in Semi-Pro classes.

$6500 - 2-3 yr old stock 800 mountain sled (many available that are 'Hillclimb' based models)
$175 - RMSHA Membership (add $10 for a bib if you can't embroider/screen print your clothes)
$1080 - Entry fees, 3 classes per race
$180 - Entry fees for New Member classes to qualify for 1 spot at Jackson (optional)
$1400 - Fuel total (figure out your costs by (MPG/round trip mileage) x price per gallon)
$1200 - Lodging, avg. $100/night, 2 nights per race
$240 - Food
$35 - Postage, membership and entry fees
$90 - Traction Screws
$15 - Tether, if not already equipped
$20 - ISR legal snowflap, can probably be done cheaper or free
$200 - ISR legal chest protector
Time off from work usually a minimum of at least 1 day per race IF you have weekends off. Figure that total based off your current wage. Do you take paid leave? Do you take time off without pay??(not advisable in this instance)
Maintenance for transport vehicle - based off mileage accumulated going to races.


I'll repeat myself. You can become very competitive on the circuit without having to start off with all the costs listed above. Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither were any of the racers that are currently doing well in RMSHA. If you already ride sleds that is step 1. Any step after that is solely based off what a person is capable of financially and physically.

I would hope anyone following this thread that has wanted to race, but has an issue with time/finances will chime in and maybe give some more detailed ideas on ways to cut costs. And if anyone wants to stop by my rig during a race I'll be more than happy to show you around. I'm only one example of the many demographics that come with the RMSHA family.

 

[spsracing]

To RMSHA,
Well RMSHA has been one of the best things my Family (Beckstrom's) has ever done. We love the people and the racing. I started racing Off-Road a few years back and I still think about my sled days. Anyone thinking of it should do it. How is everything going for you guys? Maybe I need to come out to one? Is Afton still a good one? Or is it still Jackson? Good luck to all of you.
Thanks,
Brook

 

[sykosledhead]

Again what is average?

220/109/whomever feels this way
It seems I should try your version of average. I look at the average guy who makes $50K a year, supports a family, pays for the p/u, pays rent and pays to go riding as much as he can afford. This is average to me. Now you want someone to spend $13-15K of the original $50K to show up to events and compete. Don't get me wrong, I would love to and will do what it takes for me to race but, again I ask, what is average and how does RMSHA get more riders. I am speaking my opinion only. I go to Jackson because I love to be there. I have been to Afton and am looking at getting back. I haven't been able to make any other races yet. I decided I will go to what I can based on my budget, obviously as being average. Again we aren't talkin scientist and CEO's here, average riders are making an average wage. In Wyoming alone, the average income is between $28-54K a year. Not as high as most. Again we go back to average.

Brook, it would nice to see ya come back to sleds. And yes RMSHA is made up of some really nice folks. It is and will be a kick to meet and ride with everyone, no doubt. But what can be done to get the average rider to try? This is a tough one. RMSHA?

I want to figure out a way to get numbers up at events as much as you do, but I still say the average rider is not financially capable to spent what it takes and get a shot. At best, he or she might make a race, if its close.

And again I say, trully what needs to happen is some of the big teams need to expand their rider list and take on more riders under the same numbers you gave and give some guys a shot.

It comes down to the basics. Feed the family or race. Its a no-brainer here. Based on my version of average.

syko

 

[snopro176]

i like the idea of smaller branches of rmsha on the west coast and elsewhere with like a championship race with the big dogs at the end of the year. I doubt rmsha has the man power though. We had a small org out here in CA for a couple years that put on 2 hillclimbs,they were a absolute blast,it would be cool to see those hill tracked up again. I started the other post about getting a group to head to jackson this march,come to find out ive got at least 6+ people that are down to make it happen..just gota build it,they will come..

 

[Racer220]

$13-$15k is a very realistic number if you have to update to a newer sled and want to race a full season. Fact is, if racing was cheap most of this thread wouldn't even exist. You repeated exactly what I've said before when you said "I decided I will go to what I can based on my budget..." You consider yourself average. How many 'average' riders by your standard have a turbo sled? I personally don't know that many, but that's just me. Think about that though. That was probably a lot of disposable income to pull off and then maintain on a yearly basis, correct? But you made the decision that you wanted a turbo and now look where you're at. Regardless of what RMSHA does to make racing available to more people, only the people that sit down and figure out what they can do to race will determine whether or not something will happen.

If anyone wants an example of an average rider. Married a couple years, just out of college, and grossed well under $40k with 2 incomes. Mortgage, car, insurance, utilities, medical bills, etc... 12 yr old truck I paid off coming out of high school, 3 yr. old sled, no trailer, no spare parts, so setup knowledge. Heck, I didn't even have a legal clutch cover or traction screws that's how oblivious I was. I raced 3 races, only 1 class, in ski clothes because I didn't have enough for real snowmobile stuff yet. I only found one sponsor for $300 that year, and it was a guy that I actually rode with anyway. I got waxed every race and had an urgent care bill at the end of the year that was way more than what that weekend cost me. That is an average rider that made a decision to sacrifice a lot of real riding time to try racing.

RMSHA will never get new people unless people decide it's something they want to do. Period. Racing in general has a stereotype that only 'rich' people can do it because it's too expensive for the common folk. False. You may not have the nicest stuff, attend all the races, have the money/parts to fix something right away, but that doesn't mean anything if you have the mindset that you can't come in and race competitively.

For every race RMSHA gets that is closer and more affordable to someone, it's a race that's further and more expensive to a lot more people. For every year a manufacturer comes out with a new model year sled that tons of people buy, it's one more year that a ton of average riders sleds get older if they don't have the means to upgrade. In my humble opinion racing will never get 'cheaper', and will not be something that a majority of average riders will ever be a part of. That's the reality of it. No part of that means that we cannot get new people to come and be a part of RMSHA though. RMSHA needs to add a lot of value to convince the majority of people to come out, and great ideas have been thrown out by a lot of people. It's equally important for anyone, especially if you've read this thread and are considering racing, to see how much they are willing to put forth. Nothing comes easy in life especially during these times, but nothing will ever happen if you just sit back and watch.

Brook, you guys were definitely a great part of the racing community. I'm sure you would be welcomed back with open arms if you came back to hillclimbing.

 

[Racer220]

FYI, big teams are probably not near as good of an option as possibly teaming with someone else wanting to start racing as well. I have spoken with guys that were on big teams and they were still incurring big costs. Sleds (although a bit cheaper or shared, still had to be bought), entry fees, lodging, etc... They may have a support structure to help out with the background stuff, but financially it wasn't much different.

Current manufacturer support. Well, someone else can give their .02 about that. There are ways from benefiting, but chances are your first step is having a resume that supports why they would consider you for anything. That means having or building a good racing background. Even then it's no guarantee. Trust me.

 

[sykosledhead]

220
Here we go again. Turbo sled, yes very expensive to maintain, not that expensive to buy. I will promise you my used turbo cost to buy was not much over half of your stock XP. It will surprise you, but only until I tell you it’s a Dragon. Enough said. Thus the cost is not that high. Truly the second time I had to rebuild the motor is way too expensive and is killing my chances of making it to Jackson. I have spoken to Scott Wine, CEO of Polaris, and told him his motors suck (he and his secretary don’t care for me much right now). I should have bought an XP and drop off my Dragon on Scott’s front lawn.

But back to the question, how do WE get more rider to take part in RMSHA? As stated in your PM, it’s a bigger question than most believe.

To want is a minor step, and yes one would have to sit down and see what they can afford, but one thing this thread has done is enlighten many as to some of the costs. Maybe they can work toward some of these expenses as they work toward the goal of racing. Maybe they have some of the required items. At least now they have an idea what is needed. This is a simple thread that has provided a valuable, yet free asset; information.

Maybe a through list of some common problems and hurdles one can expect as they begin. How about a list of do’s and don’ts for each race, written by a racer or racers for each race event? Can it be someone could sit down and explain perspective, gear set ups for conditions, screw numbers, jet sizes for the non-EFI, keys to the course at each race. Or what to watch for with Beaver Mtn or Bear Lake courses. What is the track like, should we gear for a speed run or a technical ride, handle bar positions, kill switches on the back of the bar and why, types of kill switches and why, what would work for a clutch gard and not cost a fortune, riding techniques to work on, how to practice corners at home? Most post on SW are good to answer specific questions about set up but none have gone into detail to help answer details about a race for those that haven’t had the opportunity to try it.. How many extensive posts list some ways to cut corners, common errors that each has experienced, who to talk to if needing soo many minor things that these guys don’t know yet. Or ideas like maybe tax ideas to help, maybe places that offer help with gear to racers. Ways to get a hold of potentials rides to a race. There are lots of potentials that seem never to be spoken of unless someone ask exactly that question. I have been part of SW forums since the conception and some racers aren’t willing to give up any of their secrets “because that’s racing”. You're the racer, throw some really good ideas out and see if WE can get some information out to potentials. Again how can WE get more riders to try RMSHA? Any ideas?

See how one can look outside the box a bit. It isn’t hard. It takes someone to sit down and put all the BS aside and refuse to have the attitude of; “they’re a bunch of whiners wanting the full ride out the gate”. Not that you have stated that.




John

 

[Racer220]

Let me gather my thoughts and I'll start another thread because that is a dictionary size list to cover. I have not secrets though, so if I can help someone try to figure out all the details I'll Doo my best.

racer

 

[sykosledhead]

220 and all who are interrested.
This will be the post of the century. The most important apsect to gain support (in anything) is information. Once a person gains info, his/her (gotta be fair) imagination is the limit, and ones significant other. Now folks can think of ways to get a task or item in a different way. Now we have the world working at a solution.

This is a hit.

AWESOME Job 220.

syko

Calling all racers, if you dare to give out some ideas.

Besides it for RMSHA.

 

[hockeyb4]

I have been reading this thread and i would like to offer my .02, so here goes. I have been involved in racing motocross for a few yrs, I think that RMSHA should look into something like this. Smaller events but more of them in a localized area then a pro/championship type circuit. As for the big name sponsors that will be really tough based on the fact that they would like to know whats in it for them? i.e. how many fans, whats the tv coverage, what can we expect to gain from you?
That is where RMSHA struggles to be honest it is not that easy to get to as a fan much less watch.
Racing truly is a passion that you either have or you don't. the hardcore racers will make it happen regardless. You need to give it an honest try and see if it is something you/your family are into and willing to dedicate the time and money into.
That being said I am also an avid hockey player and have been that way for as long as I can remember. It is also very expensive if you want to travel and compete. I will vouch for this. It all comes down to what your passion is.
It comes down to giving it a shot and see if its something that you had enough fun doing to justify the money and time. If it is then great,if not at least you gave it a shot and you know for yourself

 

[roughrider99]

What's the best class to run? I would assume stock but what if a new guy has a slightly modified sled or a turbo sled? Would the competition just be too much in the modified classes or is there beginner mod. Or is stock class the best way to start and have a better chance of doing well?

 

[sykosledhead]

Good advice from B4.

Lets get this out to some other posts. In the waypoint, what is a format to help organize the information to be delivered?

Guys, just to throw this out, 220 is on to a great idea and it will take some time and lots of added advice.

Keep it coming.

B4,
I thought confidence was that feeling you get just before you sh$t your pants.

Just kidding.

John

 

[109RMSHA]

On the wich class is th best and for shure the stock is the way to go. I have not done a single chang to my stock sled for the last 6 years at least. I run my sleds the way they come out of the box and have done very well with just that and won many races in th epro class. Some guys do change setups alot and at the end of the day most of it depends on mind set and rider ability. I have evan done well in the improved class with the same stock sled. When I started racing at the age of about 16 I hade no semi pro class to start in and wow racing rick ward and those guys was a little mind bending but stick it out I did and the addiction started and love every minute of it. Entry numbers is what will bring the worth of the race back. Ps Sorry for bad spelling

 

[sledstormed]

What I've seen over the years is the hills seem to be turning into hillcross courses and not hillclimbs. Jackson and Afton are the exceptions.... Steep and spectator friendly so they pack the crowds. The crowds seem to want to see racers climb the unclimbable. Anyway, i'm not going to critisize because I know it takes you all a LOT of work to set these races up. Maybe having a split season if the venues of steep terrain are becoming harder to find, i.e. hillclimb (steep & technical hills) and hillcross (i.e. Beaver). Have a Rookie class (first year racers only, points etc.), two classes stock/mod (no turbos), 100% payback, plus added money. Winner of a rookie class gets a free entry into the semi-pro class of their choice. Groom these boys to succeed! Same for semi-pros... winner of a semi-pro class gets a free entry to a pro class. The free entry would apply to the next race. This wouldn't cost RMSHA a dime and would allow the racer to test his ability at the next level.

I started racing semi-pro in 02 and making the jump to pro huge. Especially since I never experience the next level. To make up time with the rookie class, trim down some classes i.e. 700 classes (and I race two 700 classes.) Also, when placing in the top ten-five the racer should win their entry fee back. Every little bit helps but hey, we're in this sport because we love it right!

Make all classes the same $$ entry fee. i.e. $50.00 per class. This would also make the average joe less hesitant to make the jump. 95% of us are not making any money in this sport so we should make every level a reachable goal. The top placers are making their money in contigency anyway.

I don't think there's a definate answer for more racers in RMSHA as everyone has to work, travel, and spend money they don't have to race but opening the door to new racers and trying to accomidate as many as possible and not just a certain location will get the ball rolling for some of these guys who have that burning desire to feel the rush of HILLCLIMB RACING!!