A riders evolution..........be advised a little lengthy

[Steve86]

:face-icon-small-dis..........after 30 years its time for something different. Been riding sleds since I was 15. Official mountain riding started in 1988 with my first brand new sled for $3200 bought from Crystal saw in Carbondale, Co a 1988 Wildcat 650 first twin jug 650. Great trail sled that shredded belts the minute you got off trail. 570 lbs dry.

1-2 years on that sled went to a 1990 Yamaha Exciter with a custom 141 track bought from LJ McCarty? in Delta, Co. Best sled around nothing would touch it in deep powder. Blazed many of trail on the flattops out of Silt, Co.

1992 moved back to Idaho and went back to school from 93-2000.

Bought another 1993 Exciter in 2000 and found out a decade had eclipsed this sled. Not so much weightwise but lots more power available.

2001 Bought a used Summit 800 144" awesome sled that served me well for 7 years. spent lots of money on lightweight parts. All my riding partners were getting out of it after 7 years so I did as well.

Sat out one year 2008-09 and that was a long winter and decided I wasn't ready to be done yet. End of 09 I bought a 09 M8 snoPro great sled that I rode for a year but wasn't the same without my old riding buddies basically riding with kids 20 years younger than me but that was Ok kept me in shape.

2010 sold M8 and said I am done snowmobiling.

Enter 2011 and was back to riding my old Summit when I got an urge to go once or twice a year. The older guy I was riding with had a new Pro 800 and I made the mistake of riding his.

2012 Im on a red white and blue Pro 800 if anything will rejuvenate my thrill to ride this sled will. Absolutely loved this sled and what an easy sled to ride Almost too easy. Hang on a sidehill just feathering the throttle, wow. But decided I was too much of a fair weather rider I only wanted to go in blue skies and 2 feet of powder that meant 4-5 times a year not enough to justify a 12000 snowmobile. Sold it and bought 2013 Crewcab ranger to put the whole family in.

Ive sat two pretty crummy winters out and so I haven't been all that disappointed but here I am again getting the itch at 46 years old, but here is how it has changed for me. I only want to go 5-6 times a year when the snow is deep and fresh and base is good so Feb and March.

Found a great deal on a 07 M8 for $2000 bucks about a month ago so still a great mountain sled but without all the financial obligations.

Now for the something different, I want to find a good used turbo to put on this sled. Ive always had lightweight now Im ready for power but I don't want something that will fling me into a tree when it hits the turbo. I ride trees but also hit open places as well but it will always be deep HP robbing snow when I go. So maybe the deep snow will offset the turbo HP a bit to react quickly enough to navigate fairly tight trees. Maybe you just learn to anticipate when the turbo hits and plan accordingly. So Turbo owners who ride trees what is your best advice. I don't want a BB so this is my only power option. When does the turbo work by the way, is it working at 1/4 throttle?? Do you even need to be on the turbo in the trees? How long of a pull can you go on before that belt is smoking?? Is there a heavy duty belt you use for turbos? Ihave read all the other stuff about reeds and pistons so I get it. Should be plenty of used kits going up for sale as people upgrade to newer sleds so I will hold out for a good deal. I have always done my own maintenance on my sleds so I think I can handle basic tuning on the turbo Im hoping. Have never dealt with fuel controller so that will be a learning curve for me. I know lots of info and questions but I would rather learn from someone elses experience and mistakes and successes than learn from my own. Thanks for any advice and input.

Steve

 

[Dogmeat]

I'll post up a little bit about my riding evolution as well, but I'll give you the short version

I bought a 2009 M8 and rode it stock for one season. I boosted it in 2010.

I sold the turbo kit off of it in 2013 and bought a Pro RMK.

I've been missing my boosted M ever since

You don't need an excuse, do it

I might even be boosting my Pro next year

 

[w2bridin]

I liked your story....It sounds like you have very little knowledge or experience with turbos which is fine everyone has to start somewhere. I would recommend finding someone around your area with experience that can help you(a friend or a dealer) find out the kind of kit they run and then go shopping. These things are awesome but they are not like stock you must get them dialed in and sometimes that can be a real challenge especially if you don't know what you are doing. I am on my second turbo and had both of them dealer installed. They will charge you 500-1000$ but it is so worth it when you get it and it is dialed in and ready to rip. If you are worried about the 500-1000$ install then boost is not for you! Good luck

:face-icon-small-dis..........after 30 years its time for something different. Been riding sleds since I was 15. Official mountain riding started in 1988 with my first brand new sled for $3200 bought from Crystal saw in Carbondale, Co a 1988 Wildcat 650 first twin jug 650. Great trail sled that shredded belts the minute you got off trail. 570 lbs dry.

1-2 years on that sled went to a 1990 Yamaha Exciter with a custom 141 track bought from LJ McCarty? in Delta, Co. Best sled around nothing would touch it in deep powder. Blazed many of trail on the flattops out of Silt, Co.

1992 moved back to Idaho and went back to school from 93-2000.

Bought another 1993 Exciter in 2000 and found out a decade had eclipsed this sled. Not so much weightwise but lots more power available.

2001 Bought a used Summit 800 144" awesome sled that served me well for 7 years. spent lots of money on lightweight parts. All my riding partners were getting out of it after 7 years so I did as well.

Sat out one year 2008-09 and that was a long winter and decided I wasn't ready to be done yet. End of 09 I bought a 09 M8 snoPro great sled that I rode for a year but wasn't the same without my old riding buddies basically riding with kids 20 years younger than me but that was Ok kept me in shape.

2010 sold M8 and said I am done snowmobiling.

Enter 2011 and was back to riding my old Summit when I got an urge to go once or twice a year. The older guy I was riding with had a new Pro 800 and I made the mistake of riding his.

2012 Im on a red white and blue Pro 800 if anything will rejuvenate my thrill to ride this sled will. Absolutely loved this sled and what an easy sled to ride Almost too easy. Hang on a sidehill just feathering the throttle, wow. But decided I was too much of a fair weather rider I only wanted to go in blue skies and 2 feet of powder that meant 4-5 times a year not enough to justify a 12000 snowmobile. Sold it and bought 2013 Crewcab ranger to put the whole family in.

Ive sat two pretty crummy winters out and so I haven't been all that disappointed but here I am again getting the itch at 46 years old, but here is how it has changed for me. I only want to go 5-6 times a year when the snow is deep and fresh and base is good so Feb and March.

Found a great deal on a 07 M8 for $2000 bucks about a month ago so still a great mountain sled but without all the financial obligations.

Now for the something different, I want to find a good used turbo to put on this sled. Ive always had lightweight now Im ready for power but I don't want something that will fling me into a tree when it hits the turbo. I ride trees but also hit open places as well but it will always be deep HP robbing snow when I go. So maybe the deep snow will offset the turbo HP a bit to react quickly enough to navigate fairly tight trees. Maybe you just learn to anticipate when the turbo hits and plan accordingly. So Turbo owners who ride trees what is your best advice. I don't want a BB so this is my only power option. When does the turbo work by the way, is it working at 1/4 throttle?? Do you even need to be on the turbo in the trees? How long of a pull can you go on before that belt is smoking?? Is there a heavy duty belt you use for turbos? Ihave read all the other stuff about reeds and pistons so I get it. Should be plenty of used kits going up for sale as people upgrade to newer sleds so I will hold out for a good deal. I have always done my own maintenance on my sleds so I think I can handle basic tuning on the turbo Im hoping. Have never dealt with fuel controller so that will be a learning curve for me. I know lots of info and questions but I would rather learn from someone elses experience and mistakes and successes than learn from my own. Thanks for any advice and input.

Steve

 

[Steve86]

Thanks guys,

Ya I would really prefer to install it myself so I know how everything works, I have always been that kind of guy. I work on all my own vehicles and have always worked on all my sleds aside from boring and port work. the fuel pressure and AFR seems to be where you have to be dialed just like any carberated sled had to be jetted correctly at different elevations to get them to run right. I changed many of jets on the hill, always smelled like gas, I know this is different but the principle is still the same. I have read over CPC installation instructions and it sounds fairly involved but I don't think its anything I cant handle. When you have changed a gimbal bearing and exhaust bellows in a boat I am convinced you can do about anything. Only thing I don't like is drilling a hole in my gas tank, no going back after that!!

 

[av8er]

get a used Twisted kit or Cutler kit

Be sure to spend the extra $$ on a dual injector setup. if you can get a Garrett 2871, it would be great. a dobeck style fuel controller is the easiest to tune with. A cold air intake is good also. but go Garrett turbo for sure.

 

[Steve86]

Be sure to spend the extra $$ on a dual injector setup. if you can get a Garrett 2871, it would be great. a dobeck style fuel controller is the easiest to tune with. A cold air intake is good also. but go Garrett turbo for sure.

If I buy a used kit I guess I get what I get. Is there really anything that wears on a turbo besides turbo bearings so when you get a used kit is there really anything to be checking for wear? I am leaning toward CPC or Push, is a dual injector setup something you can add to an exsisting kit. What is up with a dual injector is that something new the last year or two and what is the advantage?

 

[WyoBoy1000]

If you want to do it for the entertainment of building a turbo with all ups and downs of learning then great. If your doing it to have more fun I wouldn't. I would find a used XM and ride the daylights out of it. As for the turbo part on a M. If you put anykind of turbo under that thing and want to be able to use your going to need a ton of upgrades to be able to actually use the boost.
I've schooled older turbos on newer stock sleds.
Upgrades that are worth the money and worth just as much or more than the turbo, newer style rear tunnel/bumper, PowerClaw track,
MDS clutch weights, really easy and huge power gains for what your looking for, and very simple.
A KMOD skid conversion, this was the single biggest upgrade I ever did to be able to use the power, without it, it was a handfull and with it it was just insane.
On a budget you might be able to piece it together with used and new parts for around $1700. and I would rather have those upgrades before a turbo. You can go more places than just a turbo.

Now for the turbo, 3 options to look at that are simple and fairly easy to maintain, inspect and tune.
CPC
OVS
Twisted
they are all very similair with the desired result.
To be honest I think you would be better off finding one already built. I would not look at any others.

How many miles on your M8?
You may need to do some maintenance on what you have first.

I think everyone should experience a well setup turbo but since I had mine I went back to a stock motor for the fun factor, and the new sleds just do more than the old ones.

What ever you do keep riding

 

[Steve86]

If you want to do it for the entertainment of building a turbo with all ups and downs of learning then great. If your doing it to have more fun I wouldn't. I would find a used XM and ride the daylights out of it. As for the turbo part on a M. If you put anykind of turbo under that thing and want to be able to use your going to need a ton of upgrades to be able to actually use the boost.
I've schooled older turbos on newer stock sleds.
Upgrades that are worth the money and worth just as much or more than the turbo, newer style rear tunnel/bumper, PowerClaw track,
MDS clutch weights, really easy and huge power gains for what your looking for, and very simple.
A KMOD skid conversion, this was the single biggest upgrade I ever did to be able to use the power, without it, it was a handfull and with it it was just insane.
On a budget you might be able to piece it together with used and new parts for around $1700. and I would rather have those upgrades before a turbo. You can go more places than just a turbo.

Now for the turbo, 3 options to look at that are simple and fairly easy to maintain, inspect and tune.
CPC
OVS
Twisted
they are all very similair with the desired result.
To be honest I think you would be better off finding one already built. I would not look at any others.

How many miles on your M8?
You may need to do some maintenance on what you have first.

I think everyone should experience a well setup turbo but since I had mine I went back to a stock motor for the fun factor, and the new sleds just do more than the old ones.

What ever you do keep riding

So what I took out of this read is a stock 07 M8 isn't worth putting a used CPC race gas turbo on. If this is true, I'll just ride what I got and keep it stock with SLP pipe. My wife must have talked to you. 5500 miles on sled. My dealer who is my nephew has already gone through the sled and its good to go. new clutch,new PV cables, diamond drive gone through fluid changed, New exhaust probe. Pistons look like new and 130psi compression.

I will keep riding but like I said blue skies and 1-3 feet of powder is when I will ride and even then only during the week. Thanks for the reply.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

You could find a cheap turbo but if if it has any issues your going to spend more than its worth and would be better off finding a 09 or newer already turbo'd
If you can find a good cheap powerclaw and 09 and newer rear tunnel/bumper for say $500 its going to make those deep days 2x better.

I've seen used turbos with less miles go for around 6k

 

[Matte Murder]

Was thinking the same thing as Wyo. find somebody who has maxed out a used M8 with a turbo, KMOD or Timbersled skid, shocks, lw parts, Airframes etc and is selling it. Lots of great deals out there on turbo M8s with all the goodies at around 30% of replacement cost. Keep your current sled for a backup so you never miss a day. I bet you will be riding more than 5-6 days a year if you found a great group of guys to sled with.

 

[av8er]

Being a first time turbo guy- stay away from PUSh

there is very little to none- customer support or installation instructions available

 

[Steve86]

Okay what makes the KMOD so much better than stock. I need reasons. Im not buying any part of fox floats. Ive owned them in the past and still have them on my summit. What do they do? They compress and spring back, lighter ok, a little bit. but function is still function coil over or not coil over. And remember I am a boondocker now not slab a sidehill on a 70 degree slope or power up a 2000 foot chute , that was the old me, Im an old man now.

Also Ive asked before Ill ask again what issues would I have with a used turbo. Its an air pump with a lot of tubes and aluminum for Christ sake!!! What wears besides bearings in turbo?? Its the engine that wears correct, Not the turbo.

 

[Steve86]

..........too add to the suspension note, I have seen so many people screw up a suspension setup its ridiculous. They blame it on the stock suspension when its not the suspension at all its just setup wrong, I have seen so many people suck down their front limiter straps and wonder what in the hell are you doing?? Better approach angle, ok fine but do you want it to work?? Let the snow conditions dictate how it works I learned from the old school when you didn't have all the fancy crap. Stiff, soft, stiff. it was simple and worked great and still does.

 

[boondocker97]

If I was looking at a used turbo kit, I would almost be looking at the other parts of the kit more than the actual turbo itself. Like you said, there isn't much that can go wrong with them other than if the bearings are out. From what I have seen the things that are going to cause you problems are probably boost/exhaust leaks and electrical issues. Make sure that all the hoses, tubes, and connectors are in good shape and not rubbed or burnt. Also make sure you have a list of what is supposed to be included in the kit from the manufacturer and check off the list as you are looking at it to make sure you are getting everything. As always, the devil is going to be in the details.

The Kmod skid is a coupling skid. This means that when the rear end of the suspension collapses to a set adjustable point, it has to start collapsing the front arm as well to travel any farther. Turbo sleds have so much power that they are constantly wanting to ride on the back part of the track. Since the stock spring rates are not stiff enough to support the sled on it's tail, it fully collapses. Combine that with the extra power pulling the front end up and you are tail-walking everywhere without having the kind of control you need to go where you want. With the coupled skid, it starts using the spring rate of the front shock when it needs to keep the front end down more and in control. Even stock sleds can benefit from this technology when climbing. Turbo sleds seem to benefit from it in almost all situations. If you try to make the rear end of your stock skid stiff enough to keep the skis down then the ride quality is going to be equivalent to riding a brick.

There are two shock options with the Kmod skid on the Arctic Cats for '08 and newer sleds. 1. They take the stock rear float, shorten it, re-valve it, and revalve the stock front spring shock. 2. Upgrade to Raptor coilover shocks. Since your sled is an '07 you are going to need a new rear shock either way. Since you don't care for the floats, you could find a used setup that has the Raptor shocks with it.

Just an FYI, the newer generation Float 3 shocks are miles better than the old Floats or Float 2s. If your only experience with them has been with the older versions, you might want to keep your mind open to trying the newer ones sometime.

 

[Steve86]

...........that's the stuff I need to hear. Awesome explanation.

 

[av8er]

Also with the Raptors

they are 100% fully adjustable to riders weight, and riding style, then with the KMOD rear skid, and quick adjust coupling block , with a twist of your wrist , you can select 1-30% coupled, 2-50% coupled, 3- 70% coupled or 4 - 905 coupled. I select 1 for the bumpy trail up the MTN, then turn it to 2 for the rest of the day, If I am going to slay a Steep Chute I set it at 4. That is with a Twisted - TM8- 174 x2.5" at 10psi on straight Avgas- about 240HP. a quick comparison i can hit the Bumpy stuff twice as fast with the Raptors and be under control as compared to the Floats. without it beating the He11 out of me.
Another train of thought is the Track on the 07, m8. If you were to upgrade to a 2.6" Powerclaw it would be huge benefit on that sled. If cat would make a 174x3" powerclaw i would buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[Steve86]

Ya, I have heard enough the track is the first step. What did the stock 09 M8 have, I thought it worked great.

 

[boondocker97]

The 09 M8 had the 2.25 powerclaw.

One more note on shocks. To get the ride quality you expect out of an aftermarket set they need to be valved and sprung correctly for your weight and riding style. When buying used suspension, always make sure you ask what it is setup for. If it's not close, you will have to spend more money sending them in to have them sprung and valved correctly to get the full benefit from them.

 

[Steve86]

Do you need the whole skid or just the swing arms and shocks?

 

[inthetrees123]

Steve86, I have owned the same turbo'ed 07 m8 for 4 seasons straight now. 3000ish miles boosted. Those miles are pretty much all tree miles. I park my truck as close as I can to the tree riding. I live in an area with very very few open hills. Why did I buy a turbo then? I got a chance to ride a few, and I was hooked. So I will tell you the stock 07 track is junk. My set up is a stock 07 M8 153, with a stock 09 rear suspension with the fox float shocks, the 09+ rear tunnel update, BD pump gas kit with the fuel upgrade kit (extra injectors), the gt2860 turbo, and 2.6 p claw track. I have played with a couple of the aftermarket turbo clutching set ups over the years, and have found the recommended clutching set up for my elevation and boost level from BD to be the best over all for my type of riding. Silky smooth very strong linear pull threw the whole power band. I get around 400 - 500 miles on a stock 046 belt. Is this set up the best tree sled? Probably not. But I love riding it, and it is super fun. I ride with buddies with carls cycle 900 pro's with alot of titanium parts. There sleds are probably better tree sleds. But most of the time they never get to a spot where I can't get to, and I seem to dig them out way more than I dig my self out. I also find their sleds not as fun mainly because of the lack of power and turbo whistle. But that is just me. Do I think the pro is better.. yes. That said I have 0 plans to upgrade to a pro. Mainly because I am still super happy with my TM8 and don't have piles of cash laying around to waste on a new sled. I can not comment on other brand turbo kits because I have never ridden anything other than BD. I hope my post helps.