alpha 154 converted to a 165

[newguy2005]

been a lurker on here for a long time , looking for some advise. little background coming off all long track sleds never ridden a short track , just picked up a 19 alpha 154 and installed an elevate kit on it rode it 3 times , first two times was no issues sled rides great wheelies every where little learning curve with that but no complaints , 3rd day we had fresh powder shoulder deep, thats when i realized the 154 isnt gonna cut it, couldnt follow any of the longer track sleds all day tried like hell throttle wfo all day and i have never been so stuck anytime i let off that was all it took and it dug a hole to china, swapped sleds with the wife 17 mtn cat 165 no problems going where i wanted, granted i am running with some polaris 800 turbos in the group longer tracks that have no issues , i need to be able to go where they go , in the powder is where this sled struggles, so i figure two options , 1 buy a 165 rail and track and swapp it out ( i think thats all i would need eveything should swapp over from the rail ? and just a new track obviosly or am i missing something ? obtion b turbo the sled with a solid turbo , might give the short track better track speed and get me ontop so i dont have to be pinned all the time through the trees ? but im worried the 154 turboed might just like to do cartwheels with me in tow lol , open to some advise and suggestions thanks ,

 

[sno*jet]

I think they trench more in deep snow with the elevate kit installed as directed. You might want to pull the limiter strap in a notch or soften the front skid shock. Ive read of alpha guys going back to stock too but I like the extra clearance myself. One thing I did was lowered my bars over where I liked them before the elevate. That will get your body more forward if you think you are wheeling too much and that's killing momentum. I would try some adjustments like this, I've ridden with 154 alphas against my 162 twin rail and I think they got around better in deep snow.

 

[newguy2005]

I think they trench more in deep snow with the elevate kit installed as directed. You might want to pull the limiter strap in a notch or soften the front skid shock. Ive read of alpha guys going back to stock too but I like the extra clearance myself. One thing I did was lowered my bars over where I liked them before the elevate. That will get your body more forward if you think you are wheeling too much and that's killing momentum. I would try some adjustments like this, I've ridden with 154 alphas against my 162 twin rail and I think they got around better in deep snow.

i was actually shocked that my wifes twin rail was able to out climb the alpha figured it was a short track issue, im pretty sure im at 45-50 on fts 120 on the rear and 52 on the skis, and tried setting 1 and 2 on the rear didnt notice a difference. bars are titled back a hair i like the rider postion same as my other twin rail mtn cats

 

[trees happen]

You're not gonna want to turbo, something you already can't keep the font down on, 165, then turbo that if you want, later. But that 165 will still be playful with the elevate kit, just not trenching so bad.

 

[boondocker97]

I think they trench more in deep snow with the elevate kit installed as directed. You might want to pull the limiter strap in a notch or soften the front skid shock. Ive read of alpha guys going back to stock too but I like the extra clearance myself. One thing I did was lowered my bars over where I liked them before the elevate. That will get your body more forward if you think you are wheeling too much and that's killing momentum. I would try some adjustments like this, I've ridden with 154 alphas against my 162 twin rail and I think they got around better in deep snow.

I agree with this. With the raised spindles it brings the front end up and with it the handlebars up and back. What makes for a more playful-handling sled usually makes the deep snow performance worse.

If you go to a 165 you'll need the rail, track, and drivers (or have your drivers thinned on a lathe) to fit the updated track windows. May need to angle up the plate on the back of the tunnel so the track can't grab it if sticking with the 154 length tunnel.

 

[newguy2005]

I agree with this. With the raised spindles it brings the front end up and with it the handlebars up and back. What makes for a more playful-handling sled usually makes the deep snow performance worse.

If you go to a 165 you'll need the rail, track, and drivers (or have your drivers thinned on a lathe) to fit the updated track windows. May need to angle up the plate on the back of the tunnel so the track can't grab it if sticking with the 154 length tunnel.

I thought I read something about the drivers needing swapped , but when I looked it up on the cat parts diagram. The 154 and the 165 drivers have the same part number. Am I missing something ? # 0728-253 and both sleds show the same part numbers , that’s on a 19 alpha

 

[sno*jet]

I noticed the higher riding catalyst is also coming with 1" lower bars next year. food for thought. I bet the parts diagrams have superseded to the newer stuff, just guessing tho. its the internet..

 

[boondocker97]

The difference isn't 154 to 165. It's that the new style tracks have two smaller windows instead of the single large windows that your 2019 has. The extrovert teeth on the driver's have to be narrowed to fit the smaller windows. If you find one of the older style 165 tracks with the single windows you won't have to change drivers.

FYI some people find worn aluminum driveshafts that spin in the bearings so be ready for that possibility when you take it apart too.

 

[715sledUP]

been a lurker on here for a long time , looking for some advise. little background coming off all long track sleds never ridden a short track , just picked up a 19 alpha 154 and installed an elevate kit on it rode it 3 times , first two times was no issues sled rides great wheelies every where little learning curve with that but no complaints , 3rd day we had fresh powder shoulder deep, thats when i realized the 154 isnt gonna cut it, couldnt follow any of the longer track sleds all day tried like hell throttle wfo all day and i have never been so stuck anytime i let off that was all it took and it dug a hole to china, swapped sleds with the wife 17 mtn cat 165 no problems going where i wanted, granted i am running with some polaris 800 turbos in the group longer tracks that have no issues , i need to be able to go where they go , in the powder is where this sled struggles, so i figure two options , 1 buy a 165 rail and track and swapp it out ( i think thats all i would need eveything should swapp over from the rail ? and just a new track obviosly or am i missing something ? obtion b turbo the sled with a solid turbo , might give the short track better track speed and get me ontop so i dont have to be pinned all the time through the trees ? but im worried the 154 turboed might just like to do cartwheels with me in tow lol , open to some advise and suggestions thanks ,

Did you end up swapping to the 165? Curious on your thoughts.. I’ve got a 21 with elevate that was a 154, just put a 165 under it(rail, track and updated driver) but won’t be able to try it for 2 weeks.. I had similar experiences as you and just wanted to try something different

 

[newguy2005]

I have not switched it just been riding it , i really like the way the 154 handles and how playful it is , its just in the deep powder i have to ride it like i stole it lol im going to wait till the season is over to do something , i dont want to miss out on any riding , we ride every weekend

 

[Octanee]

I ride a 165, I rode a 154 in a deep powder day, about 4 feet. Buddy kept getting stuck and is somewhat newer to sledding, I was getting around OK. being that I am able to ride the alpha good He wanted me to take it to get it out. I tell yeah, I sure felt that extra few inches missing, In that circumstance the 154 did dig down, I got stuck once or twice then I did get going and managed to get it turned around and we headed back to a easier spot but wow.

I also had a day where my 165 didnt want to run, my buddy brought his 154 alpha so I spent a full day on it. the snow was maybe ~1.5 powder into semi settled, maybe 2 feet powder but a good base under it. It was a good ride, It made me work for things more, wanted to wheelie more but I still got around OK. I'd say if you don't get the powder much or want to be more playful the 154 is great. If you want to pick tree lines, keep the front end down more and ride in consistently deeper snow, a 165 will be it.

Also any time you throw a turbo on a sled it's gonna make it feel short.... If you turbo a 155, think of it as a 14x sized track, I put a turbo on my 165 and it's like a 155 or shorter now. Kinda like how them high horse yamaha's HAD to have a 174" track to have a possibility to hold that front end down, I know my apex would still stand on end.

 

[715sledUP]

I ride a 165, I rode a 154 in a deep powder day, about 4 feet. Buddy kept getting stuck and is somewhat newer to sledding, I was getting around OK. being that I am able to ride the alpha good He wanted me to take it to get it out. I tell yeah, I sure felt that extra few inches missing, In that circumstance the 154 did dig down, I got stuck once or twice then I did get going and managed to get it turned around and we headed back to a easier spot but wow.

I also had a day where my 165 didnt want to run, my buddy brought his 154 alpha so I spent a full day on it. the snow was maybe ~1.5 powder into semi settled, maybe 2 feet powder but a good base under it. It was a good ride, It made me work for things more, wanted to wheelie more but I still got around OK. I'd say if you don't get the powder much or want to be more playful the 154 is great. If you want to pick tree lines, keep the front end down more and ride in consistently deeper snow, a 165 will be it.

Also any time you throw a turbo on a sled it's gonna make it feel short.... If you turbo a 155, think of it as a 14x sized track, I put a turbo on my 165 and it's like a 155 or shorter now. Kinda like how them high horse yamaha's HAD to have a 174" track to have a possibility to hold that front end down, I know my apex would still stand on end.

This makes a Lot of sense, thanks for your input!