M1000 Clutching issue, ideas please!

bigbull · Mar 9, 2009

Well, I have worked on a bunch and have owned a couple M1000. I have an 09 set up the same way I built all the rest. The clutching on this one has been a bear on belts. I run an RKT secondary and snopro green cat spring wound about 180 degrees tight. I have stock gearing in Diamond Drive for now until I solve this issue. Alignment is good (while turned motor is off ) and backshift is wicked quick. So far it is the best all around boondocking sled I have ever rode. BUT, it is eating belts at a very rapid pace. I could use some input here because I have tried to come up with other ideas.

Performance wise, it holds RPM about perfect through the length of a climb in almost all snow conditions. So I really have no performance complaints at all. Speculation seems to point towards motor torque could be a cause of this issue. Maybe so, if it is, has anyone, especially the turbo guys, come up with a way to eliminate the torque twist? Thanks for any help
BB

bigbull · Mar 10, 2009

TTT, Come on guys. Any ideas?

ccpowder · Mar 10, 2009

Motor stop on Mag side like the older M7's have, works great!!

mrquick68 · Mar 10, 2009

ccpowder said:
Motor stop on Mag side like the older M7's have, works great!!

can someone post a picture of this install??? or at least explain it? how tough is the install?

mrquick68 · Mar 10, 2009

bigbull said:
Well, I have worked on a bunch and have owned a couple M1000. I have an 09 set up the same way I built all the rest. The clutching on this one has been a bear on belts. I run an RKT secondary and snopro green cat spring wound about 180 degrees tight. I have stock gearing in Diamond Drive for now until I solve this issue. Alignment is good (while turned motor is off ) and backshift is wicked quick. So far it is the best all around boondocking sled I have ever rode. BUT, it is eating belts at a very rapid pace. I could use some input here because I have tried to come up with other ideas.

Performance wise, it holds RPM about perfect through the length of a climb in almost all snow conditions. So I really have no performance complaints at all. Speculation seems to point towards motor torque could be a cause of this issue. Maybe so, if it is, has anyone, especially the turbo guys, come up with a way to eliminate the torque twist? Thanks for any help
BB

that seems pretty tight on spring tension.

bigbull · Mar 10, 2009

I agree, but I have ran it both with a lighter spring and this spring not so tight. It just doesn't perform the same. So I have left that alone. But I would really like to see the motor stop you mentioned. I thought someone mentioned a motor mount change a while back? I searched for it but could not find it?
BB

Ausm7499 · Mar 10, 2009

Tim sounds like the same setup as my 08 and I can't figure out the belt issue either. After a couple pulls or 5 minutes of boondocking in deep pow my belt and clutches are too hot. After a day of riding I have lots of belt dust and if I try to run the same belt all day without letting it cool frequently I will pull cord on a new belt in one ride. Until a solution is found I have been swapping belts out 10-15 times a day depending on snow depth. I know that sounds stupid but its the only way to make my belts last.

I found the same as you did with the RKT secondary, I tried a red/white to start with and it shifted like shat so I put a sno-pro green in and run it in the middle or one to the right of middle and it shifts awsome. I have tired throwing more weight in my primary and that has not help heat issue. My next idea is to get a different primary spring with a lower engagement and lower finish rate but I will have to grind my weights to get R's if I go that route.

If you figure this out let me know cause I have bought enough belts in the last two years to last the life of most sleds.

Quick has the same issue and is working on a solution but I don't thing he has it figured out yet.

mrquick68 · Mar 10, 2009

maybe its the RKT kit that's the problem? We all have the kit and we each have the problem?

I'm running mine stock this weekend with just a regear to see what i think. i'll report on 4 days of savage riding at Whistler and let you know what i come up with... hopefully not too much wrenching in my freezing a$$ trailer...

bigbull · Mar 10, 2009

OK, let us know what you find out. Not a lot of people have responded here, BUT I have talked to many many riders with similar issues with this setup. Runs great, Eats belts. AUSM and Quick-Are you running 046 or 060 belts?
BB

catfreak · Mar 10, 2009

I always found that if the spring is way tight the clutches run way too hot.
I also feel w/ a bit of work the factory compression setup can be made to work very well and save you $$ over having to buy the conversion setup..

JHG · Mar 10, 2009

Probably not going to like this answer but I hear its a major problem with the 09's. I guess tons of dealers were complaining about it at the show in vegas. The best fix I've seen is a little pricey but the STM secondary rocks. The 11" is the way to go on the 1000 and the STM gives lots more alignment options.

Ausm7499 · Mar 10, 2009

BB I am running the 046 I just can't justify paying that much for a belt.

Reguarding the stock setup I had the same clutch heat issue with it as I ran it for probably 1200 miles and I also had issues with it binding and not shifting out all the way. I love the way the rkt conversion shifts. I think the primary is the issue on these sleds but I have nothing to back that up.

cpatts2000 · Mar 10, 2009

I run the torque stop off of an m7 on my TM1000, just ask your dealer for that part, most of them know exactly what it is, kind of a pain to install, but not too bad. I still go through belts every once in while, but I do have a turbo. With the stocker I found the best set up for mine was a factory set up with an orange spring and a 44/40 helix or a white spring and a 42/36 helix.

RockyMtn.Kris · Mar 10, 2009

BB, Mine is geared down, venting, aligned, 046 belt. CPC conversion, 38 with red/white in the middle (1/4 preload). and deflection checked every ride.

These things come out of alignment under a load. Have you done the black pen check? I could not, and will not try to make the 060 belt work. It is a crank busting POS. Gearing seemed to help me alot. I do not have the additional torque stop, but I have run the same belt all season with no broken cords.
I would determine where your alignment is under a load and go from thereTry the torque stop like on the M7. I think Stanger is doing something on this, have you asked him?

spring snow hero · Mar 10, 2009

BB, have you pu it on the track stand and made a pull against the brake to see what the belt is doing?

mrquick68 · Mar 10, 2009

RockyMtn.Kris said:
BB, Mine is geared down, venting, aligned, 046 belt. CPC conversion, 38 with red/white in the middle (1/4 preload). and deflection checked every ride.

These things come out of alignment under a load. Have you done the black pen check? I could not, and will not try to make the 060 belt work. It is a crank busting POS. Gearing seemed to help me alot. I do not have the additional torque stop, but I have run the same belt all season with no broken cords.
I would determine where your alignment is under a load and go from thereTry the torque stop like on the M7. I think Stanger is doing something on this, have you asked him?

how she do with that red/white. i always though that it was too soft a spring for mountain riding where quick backshifting was necessary. My sno pro green setup works well for shifting and racing across lakes, but it stops the shift at 50mph and there starts to smoke the belts...

Mountain Doo-OLD · Mar 11, 2009

RockyMtn.Kris said:
BB, Mine is geared down, venting, aligned, 046 belt. CPC conversion, 38 with red/white in the middle (1/4 preload). and deflection checked every ride.

These things come out of alignment under a load. Have you done the black pen check? I could not, and will not try to make the 060 belt work. It is a crank busting POS. Gearing seemed to help me alot. I do not have the additional torque stop, but I have run the same belt all season with no broken cords.
I would determine where your alignment is under a load and go from thereTry the torque stop like on the M7. I think Stanger is doing something on this, have you asked him?

( Try this)
This year on my 08 m1000 I went to a straight 40* on my CPC conversion and wound to the 4the hole/ running the 046 and my belts are living

shift out is wicked. CPC gold primary is junk- cat black Pi with 83.5 grms likes to keep the clutches cool ( make sure they are the heavy tipped)

On my 07 M1000 I went to the 3 tower primary from the 4 tower same primary/ secondary set-up and am pulling cords.... Aligment????? Is there an alignment issue when swapping over to the 3 tower??? I was fine till the change to the 3 tower with belts
I know the 060 stick belt will not slip- but cannot justify the $120 bones when I can make the 046 work

MD

Killerk · Mar 11, 2009

I ran the stock set-up last year 6-9k, 80g weights, and with proper venting did not have belt issues. I blew the origional 060 due to no venting and abuse.
Rest of year on 046, no real issues.
This year I went with the CPC conversion, 38 helix, cutler red/wht.
Still no belt issues.
My alignment, etc. has never been checked. (if it aint broke don't fix it, right?)
The red/wht seems to be plenty spring for this set up.
However, backshift gets lazy if I run in the looser 2 holes from center.
Currently I am running one loose from center and although it is slightly more lazy when cruising then stab the throttle, it backshifts just fine on the hill.
I tried all the way loose and it was just too lazy and I experienced a bog, although on a hill it would still backshift.
Full loose I also got the feeling I was slipping the belt.
Ideal seems to be center hole, but I like the upshift better one loose, and the lazyness is tolerable.
I was doing a track swap over the weekend and my motor mounts have shifted from centerline quite noticeably... The rear one looks like it may even be seperating from the metal housing... This has me a little worried, but for now I will just keep an eye on it.
It sure looks like the engine torques quite a bit by looking at the mounts.
I feel for the guys having issues and hope my track record with belts stays consistant.
So far, so good.

RickM · Mar 11, 2009

BigBull

After reading your post, I didnt see where you mentioned any thing about the temperature's of your clutch shives, (both drive and driven) I wonder if your haveing a heat/slippage issue which is eating belts. With heat comes along slippage. I would check to see if there is a chance that any snow dust could be getting on a shive casuing slight slippage, or if the secondary is not shifting out as fast as what the driven is trying to shift causing slippage. I think that may be causing the short belt life. Only my thoughts, I may be totally off in left field.

WyoBoy1000 · Mar 13, 2009

with the 60 my sled bogs in the mid range and hits a high rpm then drops a few hun and also runs my egt temps up, the 46 works fine with more rpm. but its just slipping and seems dumb to have a setup that requires a slipping belt. seems to me if you can get the 60 to work correctly there would be a lot less heat and clutch wear due to slippage. also it would be a more direct power. when My sled was stock the 60 worked great and boondocked unlike any sled I ever had. A buddy says the same and it had a smoother feel to it.

M1000 Clutching issue, ideas please!

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