wiseco piston problems
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C
clutch man
Well-known member
With the Wiseco piston you have to have them with the right fit. with out enough clearance they will stick. to much clearance and they will slap and brake. I have installed over 50 sets in Ski-doo 7s and 8s and have never had any fail. infact they our so much better than ski-doo piston i will not in stall there stock pistons any more.
Polaris on the other hand ( polaris piston our the best piston out ther bar none) i will only put in there oem piston. I am sure that indy dan is so used to the best that he thinks wiseco is junk. in cat oem too they have a good piston too.
With Ski-doo 800 wiseco side clearance needs to be .006 to .007 no more or no less. I do 5 to 6 heat cycles befor i brake in the ring. never any problems ever.
Z
zrt1
Member
Ive also had the locating pin for the rings come loose and let the rings turn and smoked out the cylinder. This has happened to me twice on my old thunder cat and once in my jetski. I also had one that the wrist pin hole was machined so crooked that the pin wouldnt slide through, luckely the rep for parts unlimited was standing there and ordered a new one on the spot. IMO wiesco are crap, unfortunatly sometimes you dont have a choice.
Excessive clearance mean more room for the piston to tip in the bore,
and that means the soft wiseco piston skirt collapse.
As I said wiseco piston are what they are a budget replacement
piston priced like an OEM.
they should be priced like a over seas budget piston.
$50.00 max retail, dealer $20.00 then I could understand all the extra bull**** that goes along with a wiseco.
they are OK in low hp small bore motors.
if you put them in big hp large bore motors you have to replace them in less then 400 miles........after 400 mile the power starts to fade.
they are plain a simple budget pistons.
and that means the soft wiseco piston skirt collapse.
As I said wiseco piston are what they are a budget replacement
piston priced like an OEM.
they should be priced like a over seas budget piston.
$50.00 max retail, dealer $20.00 then I could understand all the extra bull**** that goes along with a wiseco.
they are OK in low hp small bore motors.
if you put them in big hp large bore motors you have to replace them in less then 400 miles........after 400 mile the power starts to fade.
they are plain a simple budget pistons.
C
clutch man
Well-known member
I think that 82 mm ski-doo 800 is up there with the big bores and i installed a set 5 years ago in a customers sled it now has almost 5000 miles on it after the a full rebuild 7875 total on the sled. it is back here becouse of a rattle in the bottom end. I checked the comp on it and it had 133 pto and 137 mag when it left my shop 5 years ago it had 145 pto and 146 mag before brake in WISECO PISTONS INSTALLED.I also had a guy come back after 2 years 2800 miles on wiseco pistons had a bad vib in it clutch was bad. it was still in the low 140s.
for ski-doo they our far better than stock pistons.
I ride with a guy that has 2001 800 polaris RMK full mod 3000 hard miles on it with wiseco piston. Runs just as good now as it did when put togather.
never ever had any problems with them but take great care to install them.
I have a rental that i have installed the wiseco pistons in there 700 ski-doo has over a 1000 miles on it in less than 2 months and it out runs there 800s still. if install right they will out last the seals on the crank on the ski-doos.
They do not fall of in power for me.
here and there
Well clutch man.........I'm glad you had good luck, But thats what it is, is luck.
I don't care about the 1 out of 20 guys that had good LUCK, I have been in the selling piston business for 25 years and if you take the law over averages............
Wiseco is hands down the most over priced, least dependable piston ever made.
explain this to me...........
Why is it that wiseco pistons and wiseco piston people have a list of things you have to do to make them live ???
the only reson they live in your doo is because its a plated motor with huge clearance..............Ski doo hasn't had the best track record with 800 pistons so even a wiseco can make you feel good.
wiseco stories are just like ams-oil stories...........and I just don't care both are over priced.
SPI Pistons are hands down better then wiseco for less money.
and Arctic Blue, Castrol Mineral oil are both better and half the money.
again don't be offened by my results, I am glad you had good luck with wisecos.
I have sold every piston ever made and thousands of them, and the one thing I can say is wiseco comes in dead last with the most failures.
4 years straight all I sold were wisecos..........1989,90,91,92 worst years of piston failure I even had. went back to OEM cast and never looked back.
Well clutch man.........I'm glad you had good luck, But thats what it is, is luck.
I don't care about the 1 out of 20 guys that had good LUCK, I have been in the selling piston business for 25 years and if you take the law over averages............
Wiseco is hands down the most over priced, least dependable piston ever made.
explain this to me...........
Why is it that wiseco pistons and wiseco piston people have a list of things you have to do to make them live ???
the only reson they live in your doo is because its a plated motor with huge clearance..............Ski doo hasn't had the best track record with 800 pistons so even a wiseco can make you feel good.
wiseco stories are just like ams-oil stories...........and I just don't care both are over priced.
SPI Pistons are hands down better then wiseco for less money.
and Arctic Blue, Castrol Mineral oil are both better and half the money.
again don't be offened by my results, I am glad you had good luck with wisecos.
I have sold every piston ever made and thousands of them, and the one thing I can say is wiseco comes in dead last with the most failures.
4 years straight all I sold were wisecos..........1989,90,91,92 worst years of piston failure I even had. went back to OEM cast and never looked back.
Last edited:
WOW Dan I never would have guessed SPI being better than wiesco
are you just venting or should I really take your 25years of experiance
as gospel. Ive had two sets out of 5 sets of spi's in the last few years
spit out the locating pin, very expensive.(I will admit that I am part to plame pushing things to the limit w 87 gas.)but I think those F ing pins should stay
the F*(k in even if your experiancing light deto. Im going to try to stick with oem as much as I can. but wiesco make alot of pistons for BB's so they are hard to avoid.
btw any tricks to keep those locating pins in there. more ring gap?
dont say good gas.you all know every now and again you have no choice and we most all do dumb **** now and again.
are you just venting or should I really take your 25years of experiance
as gospel. Ive had two sets out of 5 sets of spi's in the last few years
spit out the locating pin, very expensive.(I will admit that I am part to plame pushing things to the limit w 87 gas.)but I think those F ing pins should stay
the F*(k in even if your experiancing light deto. Im going to try to stick with oem as much as I can. but wiesco make alot of pistons for BB's so they are hard to avoid.
btw any tricks to keep those locating pins in there. more ring gap?
dont say good gas.you all know every now and again you have no choice and we most all do dumb **** now and again.
In stock Polaris engines I use the OEM pistons but I've had great "luck" with Wiesco pistons in bb mod engines. Might be because all I run is Amsoil. Go figure. I break in a motor with mineral oil and then switch to synthetics after that. After reading Dan's posts I see I leave myself wide open.... riding a Polaris, using Weisco pistons, and using Amsoil. Someone forgot to tell me all three are at the bottom of the food chain. lol
G
gus bohne
Well-known member
The 800 doo is hands down 100% relaible and dependable with wisecos.
Dan sorry you had such all around bad experience with forgings,, My only SPI experisnces have been just as bad as your wiseco results,, the spi is ebay chinese knock off **** with lowest cost reject rings from the oems.JUNK.
I drop wisecos into the doo 800 no break in, 22 psi out the door without ever looking back, Josh just broke the 800 turbo down for the summer paint and polish.
The pistons look spectacular..can't be happier.. Now I do have issue with quality control on SOME wiseco products but NO WORSE then the oems for that matter..
If you want cheap cost you get cheap quality,, If you want MADE IN USA on the box, you pay 5 times as much with 70% less expectation of even equal quality.. thank you union labor for the robbery of quality from the us market.
Wassner makes world class forgings that are beyond reproach.
German made, 200 per piston ..
I sucked it up and just ordered 4 sets of rt 1000 wassners for grass .. we'll see..
Did wiseco design the poo cranks ?? I bet they did..lol
Gus
Dan sorry you had such all around bad experience with forgings,, My only SPI experisnces have been just as bad as your wiseco results,, the spi is ebay chinese knock off **** with lowest cost reject rings from the oems.JUNK.
I drop wisecos into the doo 800 no break in, 22 psi out the door without ever looking back, Josh just broke the 800 turbo down for the summer paint and polish.
The pistons look spectacular..can't be happier.. Now I do have issue with quality control on SOME wiseco products but NO WORSE then the oems for that matter..
If you want cheap cost you get cheap quality,, If you want MADE IN USA on the box, you pay 5 times as much with 70% less expectation of even equal quality.. thank you union labor for the robbery of quality from the us market.
Wassner makes world class forgings that are beyond reproach.
German made, 200 per piston ..
I sucked it up and just ordered 4 sets of rt 1000 wassners for grass .. we'll see..
Did wiseco design the poo cranks ?? I bet they did..lol
Gus
T
tukernater
Well-known member
I used oem piston's ,wiesco and spi they got there places,i like oem in bombies at least when the ring turned in the first 200 mile and yes it's happened once they warrentied piston and cyl.Wiesco big fight, everything to there spec's [polaris ultra], pin fell out 86 mile sorry no warrenty,renic cyl to spec for oem piston, good to go my luck maybe,some have good luck so maybe im missing something.not bashing actually looking for answers
C
clutch man
Well-known member
Well clutch man.........I'm glad you had good luck, But thats what it is, is luck.
I don't care about the 1 out of 20 guys that had good LUCK, I have been in the selling piston business for 25 years and if you take the law over averages............
Wiseco is hands down the most over priced, least dependable piston ever made.
explain this to me...........
Why is it that wiseco pistons and wiseco piston people have a list of things you have to do to make them live ???
the only reson they live in your doo is because its a plated motor with huge clearance..............Ski doo hasn't had the best track record with 800 pistons so even a wiseco can make you feel good.
wiseco stories are just like ams-oil stories...........and I just don't care both are over priced.
SPI Pistons are hands down better then wiseco for less money.
and Arctic Blue, Castrol Mineral oil are both better and half the money.
again don't be offened by my results, I am glad you had good luck with wisecos.
I have sold every piston ever made and thousands of them, and the one thing I can say is wiseco comes in dead last with the most failures.
4 years straight all I sold were wisecos..........1989,90,91,92 worst years of piston failure I even had. went back to OEM cast and never looked back.
you have been selling pistons for 25 years but do you sell to just anyone or to shops that do the work. I do the work an i do it right and yes they run only amsoil in them when they go out the door in the last 7 years with over 50 set in stalled in just ski-doo not even one failer at all 100%. That is no luck at all.
Wiseco did have some problems in the early yes but the do not now and the only set of spi's i put in took out a cyl and a heads in 400 miles people that sell them should be shot. i had to fix it cost me big bucks it now has wisecos in it now for over 4 years and going strong running amsoil go figure.
as far as Arctic Blue, Castrol Mineral oil make carbon pure junk
I have used pretty much all of them over the years, and if treated properly they all can do the job. Back in the early 80's I started calling Wisecos, Seizecos, and I stopped using them. Once I figured out what "I" had been doing wrong with them, I didn't have any more problems. I haven't had a failure since, that wasn't self induced. The problems with the locating pins coming out were from to much crown heat and or deto, and as has mentioned earlier, the cast stuff is a bit more forgiving with the pins, but they will still come out if mistreated the same way. Since about 90 or so, my own stuff has all had wisecos. I've made some stupid mistakes with nitrous in the past, and the only thing that has saved my butt was the wisecos. The domes would sag and the skirts would collapse, but the rest of the motor would be ok. Had I made the same mistakes with a cast piston, there is no question in my mind they would have broken up and trashed the rest of the motor. I just think they all have their place in the snowmobile world. Use what works for you.
Tom
Tom
Yeah, we used to say Wiseco, "I'm stuck on them". 
That was 20 years ago and the company is still around. I hear a lot of positive feed back on them personally, but when I get online I see problems that people have.
I've had IndyDan do some work on my sled and I have a lot of faith in what he says. He has been doing this a long time and has reason to like or dislike a product. When he speaks it's worth listening to what he has to say. In the end you can then make a better informed choice of your own. I researched SPI and I believe they do make a really good quality product, but I couldn't get my hands on them at the time when I needed them. They released a new line of pistons this year with a very fine micron casting. Minimal expansion and increased strength. I believe they can handle more heat now as well. Dan can probably explain it better than I as I don't have the book in front of me.
I have an 08 D8 that I wanted to put twin ring pistons in. The other problem was that I felt the Polaris tolerances were out of whack. Wiseco corrected that with a closer tolerance piston. SPI stuck with Polaris tolerances. Good or bad again the choice has to be yours. After seeing what the skirt on the OEM piston looked like I wanted tighter tolerances.
Wiseco now uses some of the same materials in their forgings that other companies uses in their casting. This is meant to help control expansion and handle more heat as well. Newer pistons are also coated as most companies do these days.
So I'm running the Wiseco's and so far so good. Dan advised me to put them in the oven a few times first and I also heat cycled them in the motor a few times. I won't lie. I take extra precautions running these because they haven't completely earned my trust yet. Thurough warm ups are a must. If I stop for a few minutes I still give it a short warmup and don't pin the throttle right away. Man the motor runs smooth now though.
Thanks Dan
That was 20 years ago and the company is still around. I hear a lot of positive feed back on them personally, but when I get online I see problems that people have. I've had IndyDan do some work on my sled and I have a lot of faith in what he says. He has been doing this a long time and has reason to like or dislike a product. When he speaks it's worth listening to what he has to say. In the end you can then make a better informed choice of your own. I researched SPI and I believe they do make a really good quality product, but I couldn't get my hands on them at the time when I needed them. They released a new line of pistons this year with a very fine micron casting. Minimal expansion and increased strength. I believe they can handle more heat now as well. Dan can probably explain it better than I as I don't have the book in front of me.
I have an 08 D8 that I wanted to put twin ring pistons in. The other problem was that I felt the Polaris tolerances were out of whack. Wiseco corrected that with a closer tolerance piston. SPI stuck with Polaris tolerances. Good or bad again the choice has to be yours. After seeing what the skirt on the OEM piston looked like I wanted tighter tolerances.
Wiseco now uses some of the same materials in their forgings that other companies uses in their casting. This is meant to help control expansion and handle more heat as well. Newer pistons are also coated as most companies do these days.
So I'm running the Wiseco's and so far so good. Dan advised me to put them in the oven a few times first and I also heat cycled them in the motor a few times. I won't lie. I take extra precautions running these because they haven't completely earned my trust yet. Thurough warm ups are a must. If I stop for a few minutes I still give it a short warmup and don't pin the throttle right away. Man the motor runs smooth now though.
Thanks Dan
C
clutch man
Well-known member
Yeah, we used to say Wiseco, "I'm stuck on them".
I've had IndyDan do some work on my sled and I have a lot of faith in what he says. He has been doing this a long time and has reason to like or dislike a product. When he speaks it's worth listening to what he has to say. In the end you can then make a better informed choice of your own. I researched SPI and I believe they do make a really good quality product, but I couldn't get my hands on them at the time when I needed them. They released a new line of pistons this year with a very fine micron casting. Minimal expansion and increased strength. I believe they can handle more heat now as well. Dan can probably explain it better than I as I don't have the book in front of me.
I have an 08 D8 that I wanted to put twin ring pistons in. The other problem was that I felt the Polaris tolerances were out of whack. Wiseco corrected that with a closer tolerance piston. SPI stuck with Polaris tolerances. Good or bad again the choice has to be yours. After seeing what the skirt on the OEM piston looked like I wanted tighter tolerances.
Wiseco now uses some of the same materials in their forgings that other companies uses in their casting. This is meant to help control expansion and handle more heat as well. Newer pistons are also coated as most companies do these days.
So I'm running the Wiseco's and so far so good. Dan advised me to put them in the oven a few times first and I also heat cycled them in the motor a few times. I won't lie. I take extra precautions running these because they haven't completely earned my trust yet. Thurough warm ups are a must. If I stop for a few minutes I still give it a short warmup and don't pin the throttle right away. Man the motor runs smooth now though.
For me I would like to set the record straight I have been installing Wiseco pistons in sleds from the early 80s in the early 90s they did have some problems with there size not matching ( had to send many back ). In the 90s when we started putting turbos on the XLT we found that only the wiseco would hold up to 12 plus lbs of boost. In all the years that i have installed them only 2 times did i ever have a problem. both were my fault too the first was not a good warm up ( every sled needs to be 100 degrees before you ride ) and the other was that in never told the rider to let it warm up. not a b ad track record i would say.
As for Indy Dan when a man bad mouths one of the best oils out there to run in a snowmobile or any thing for that mater is Amsoil, i then have little faith in what he says. I rebuild motors and set up sleds for a living. When i send a new motor out i will only stand behined it if they run AMSIOL OR RED LINE and i like Amsoil the best. this is my job i fix motors and sleds.
As for SPI i have seen 100 % failer rate in there pistons 2 sets that i installed and 3 have came to me that were installed by others. none made it over a 1000 miles one at 50, 2 just about 400, 1 at 600 and the last one was one i put in had the guy come back in (with the prob i had seen ) took the cyls off and both skirts were ready to come off. put Wisecos in now he is out ridding and did not srew up the motor. I will never use them again.
As for your 08 D8 the new piston from polaris is a 2 ring piston and as for the side clearance on the polaris piston is to be tighter than the wiseco.
the side clearance for the polaris piston is .0037 to .0053 and for the wiseco it is .0050 to .0065. The Wisecos will do you good if you treat then right.
A
AdrenalineAddict
Well-known member
I've been running wiseco's in a UBR 900 big bore since 2004. As long as you give yourself that extra couple thousandths clearance and steer clear of deto completely, they will perform satisfactory. I have approximately 14,000 miles on my UBR 900's since 04. I have had a couple issues with locator pins but I feel both were detonation related.
D
davepia1
New member
wiseco
Wiseco's alloy has no ability to heal itself if all conditions aren't perfect. The slightest scratch or clearance issue and they eat themselves. We do some lathe work on them prior to install to help stop the wiping down of metal tendacy they have that sticks the rings. On all out race motors that are frequently torn down they are faster, but on a trail motor almost any piston beats wiseco. Oem are still better in my book. I talked to a factory team that told me in confidence that wiseco makes different piston alloys for the big boys. It's all about the money. Polaris is the same thing. cheap $$$$$
Wiseco's alloy has no ability to heal itself if all conditions aren't perfect. The slightest scratch or clearance issue and they eat themselves. We do some lathe work on them prior to install to help stop the wiping down of metal tendacy they have that sticks the rings. On all out race motors that are frequently torn down they are faster, but on a trail motor almost any piston beats wiseco. Oem are still better in my book. I talked to a factory team that told me in confidence that wiseco makes different piston alloys for the big boys. It's all about the money. Polaris is the same thing. cheap $$$$$
T
tukernater
Well-known member
that what i found ,give them more clearance then they rattle,but some people have good luck hummmm
Good to hear all the good and bad.
And yes I understand Wiseco has worked to make things better.......Mainly the reason wisecos work better is equipment ability to cam cut and make a piston that is no longer just tapered from bottom to top.
My beef with wiseco when I used alot of them was their refuseal to warranty anything...........I was in the sled business and my finding and piston failures were wiseco'e benifit and they would never give you **** to help you.
In my opinion if your going to sell a product for big bucks you need to stand behind it. and they never did.
Dan
And yes I understand Wiseco has worked to make things better.......Mainly the reason wisecos work better is equipment ability to cam cut and make a piston that is no longer just tapered from bottom to top.
My beef with wiseco when I used alot of them was their refuseal to warranty anything...........I was in the sled business and my finding and piston failures were wiseco'e benifit and they would never give you **** to help you.
In my opinion if your going to sell a product for big bucks you need to stand behind it. and they never did.
Dan
F
fredw
Well-known member
i run a weisco 86mm pistons, this will be my third season running their piston and from what i have seen over other pistons are, that running the weisco at peak max temp all the time will take life out of them quicker
and that being said you need a bit more clearence, i am finding the between 6 to 8 thou, is look like the sweet number for a nicasal bore
when i started this sled season, my compression was 155psi, on new pistons, now after 1400 miles its down to 150, i have ran about 60lbs of nitrous threw this motor, and around the 1000 mile mark i could start to hear some rattle when motor was warming up, now at 1400 miles rattle is more eveident, but my builder has faith on weicos skirts not breaking like the cast do
another gain i have seen with the weiscos are the lighter weight(it was a marginal lighter piston), very eveident on how quick it can rev compared to cast
i will install a new set for next season, 180 dollars each, and plan to increase oil injection a bit and hope to have another good season
weisco all the way
and that being said you need a bit more clearence, i am finding the between 6 to 8 thou, is look like the sweet number for a nicasal bore
when i started this sled season, my compression was 155psi, on new pistons, now after 1400 miles its down to 150, i have ran about 60lbs of nitrous threw this motor, and around the 1000 mile mark i could start to hear some rattle when motor was warming up, now at 1400 miles rattle is more eveident, but my builder has faith on weicos skirts not breaking like the cast do
another gain i have seen with the weiscos are the lighter weight(it was a marginal lighter piston), very eveident on how quick it can rev compared to cast
i will install a new set for next season, 180 dollars each, and plan to increase oil injection a bit and hope to have another good season
weisco all the way
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