• I am getting worn out moving your "For sale" threads, including loosely veiled sales pitches for "How much is it worth) or Wanted to buy to the swapmeet.

    I will no longer be moving them for you as I have been in the past.

    Some days are 20 per day.

    If I see it, it will get deleted.

    I try to help you...please try to help me.

    Thanks.
  • .
  • I've received emails and PM's asking me about "Group Buys" and promotions.

    A Group Buy here on SnoWestOnline.com would be a situation where a normal member (non vendor or mfg) personally collects orders from other members. That member then uses those orders to negotiate a better price with the Vendor/Mfg for HIS/HER "Group" of buyers.

    Here is an example of a viable "Group Buy"

    http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269222

    A promotion that has the words "Group Buy" in the title is still a promotion, and from the rules that were handed down to me by Harris Publications is that non-advertisers cannot run promotions or open sales programs on the forums outside of the swapmeet.

    If a members wants to become a group buy manager, maintain a thread and collect the funds and negotiate a group buy... as a member, you are welcome to do that as long as you are not attached to the business of the vendor or Mfg.

    If you are a vendor/MFG and you want to offer an EXCLUSIVE "SnoWestOnline ONLY" promotion that is exclusive to snowest readers, please contact me and you'll be able to put it up in the Polaris forums.

    Also, before any vendors/mfgs get all "riled up" over this know that the moderators are strictly volunteers and do not receive a dime from any advertising $$ spent on this site.

    As ALWAYS, since DAY ONE of me becoming a moderator, I have pioneered, supported and encouraged vendors and mfgs in getting the word out to our readers with "New Product Announcements.

    Have a great season.

    From this point on, all vendors/mfg's promoting Pre-Season tiered sales programs, in the Polaris Forums, that are not paid advertisers will be appropriately moved to the swapmeet section of the forums.

    MH

WHAT IS THE TRUE VALUE:USED TURBO KIT OR COMPLETE TURBO SLED, FOR SELLER AND BUYER??

mountainhorse

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.




WHAT IS THE TRUE VALUE: USED TURBO KIT OR COMPLETE TURBO SLED, FOR SELLER AND BUYER??​



I get asked for my opinion on this topic by our members quite often in emails and PM's

So I put it up here for discussion... and so I don't have to keep typing replies to people.:face-icon-small-win


This kind of thread is helpful, IMO... so that people are aware of the true cost and value of a used turbo system.


What is fair for the Seller and buyer to expect in terms of price/cost?​



Below is my presentation of my OPINION...

I know this thread may raise the Ire of owners or retailers of kits... this is my honest opinion that I have passed on to many potential-buyers of kits in emails/PM's that I believe is fair to the seller and the buyer of a kit taken from an 'eyes wide open' perspective.

Mountain sleds.... SnoWest's kind of riding for the most part.


When you buy a new turbo kit the buyer of the NEW kit should be aware of the value/price of the kit in terms of the possible future scenario of wanting to sell the turbo-kit or turbo-sled ... and what they could expect to sell the kit or sled for.

For the purposes of this thread...SAY... If you buy a $4000-ish Turbo-kit use it for a year or so... and then sell it to someone else as a kit (off the sled)

Yes, I know there are more expensive kits with more features etc on them... but for the terms of this initial presentation in this thread... I'll keep it to these $4000 ish systems. We can discuss the more expensive systems as this thread evolves.



Depending on the kit... you will either have:
1) A Turbo kit with an ECU that has been "re-flashed" by the MFG

2) A full "piggyback" controller where the ECU remains stock

3) A kit where the programmer is provided to you in the cost of the kit, and you as the customer can do any 'reflash' necessary without the need to send in the ECU for service.

There is also the possibility of a kit that uses a full, stand alone ECU that replaces your factory ECU. (eg Vipec) NOTE: These kits have a higher cost and can be discussed separately below.




In Scenario #1 (ECU must be sent in and re-flashed by mfg)
To sell the kit, removed from the sled, you mush either:
A} Provide the buyer with the flashed ECU from your sled, if their injectors are the same and buy a new ECU from Polaris and have it flashed at the dealer (cost to you would be about $700 parts/flash at dealer)

To me this system, off of the sled, would have a value/price of around $2000-$2500 IF the system has low, verifiable, hours on it, is complete with all documentation and parts etc that came with the kit when new and is in excellent cosmetic/mechanical condition.

B} Sell the kit and let the buyer fend for themselves in terms of ECU.

To me this system, off of the sled, would have a value/price of around $1200-$1800 if the system has low, verifiable, hours on it, is complete with all documentation and parts etc that came with the kit when new and is in excellent cosmetic/mechanical condition.

In Scenario #2 (Full Piggyback system )
As long as you are careful in removal...
To me this system, off of the sled would have a value/price of around $2000-$2500 if the system has low, verifiable, hours on it, is complete with all documentation and parts etc that came with the kit when new and is in excellent cosmetic/mechanical condition.

In Scenario #3 (Programmer is included)
To me this system, off of the sled would have a value/price of around $2200-$2700 if the system has low, verifiable, hours on it, is complete with all documentation and parts etc that came with the kit when new and is in excellent cosmetic/mechanical condition.

Significant reductions in price for incomplete, damaged or high-hour units.

Of course, there are some stellar low hour kits out there AND... a seller is entitled to ask whatever they want.



My 2¢


























.
 
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mountainhorse

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COMPLETE SLED WITH TURBO KIT INSTALLED:

COMPLETE SLED WITH TURBO KIT INSTALLED:

For a used sled that has a season or more use. (Not for a new build that has one or two rides on it and 'break in hours')

Value of a completed sled with a turbo installed on it... I would say that the turbo would/should add about $1000 - $2500 to the normal price of a sled on an equally equipped Non-Turbo 'N.A." on the market...there is the added value of the turbo and the installation time...but faster depreciation of the sled due to the additional wear/tear on the chassis and engine that comes from adding considerably more power to the sled... Not to mention any warranty on the sled has been voided (this would have to be taken into consideration on 'case by case')

There would also be a significant reduction in value of a Turbo'd sled, if abused, high-hour, worn out/damaged etc... stuff that can happen from the higher horsepower and resultant wear/tear on the sled.

In some situations, I would value a turbo sled lower than a N.A. sled with comparable 'goodies' on it because of this wear/tear.

Many may see for sale, what they feel, is a low price on a used turbo sled...Get all PUMPED UP and think...heck...."Look how much that would cost me to build that sled"... again... to flog the dead horse...Go in with EYES WIDE OPEN...leave your emotions/excitement on the side and evaluate the true value of the sled based on expected life, future or current repair/maint costs and even, in some situations, forgone warranty.

Of course, there are some stellar low hour sleds out there AND... a seller is entitled to ask whatever they want.

Nowadays, with the relative ease of installation of a kit... and the lower prices of new kits... It sometimes makes sense to find a low mile used N.A. sled and turbo it yourself rather than buy a used turbo sled.



My 2¢
 

JJ_0909

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My $0.02 really quick...

In this day and age, whereby turbos plain work (barring a bad install or mechanical failure of a component withing the kit), a person really should never take the turbo off and sell it.

Powersports world is really the only world where returning something to stock is a "thing", and to be honest, it shouldn't be.

Ethically, selling a sled as "stock" after it has had heavy performance modifications is BS.

Parting something out (totaled sled), this I get, and is the only excuse for selling a turbo kit second hand IMO.

With that said, what value does the turbo add to the sled? That's highly dependent on who installed it, who ran it, the condition of the sled, etc.

If I were to buy a turbo sled second hand, I'd likely need to see it run, and plan on doing a top end regardless. Cheap PM. I'd also expect to buy the whole sled (assuming no other mods) for about the same price as an in-season stocker. So $11.5-12K for a pull-and-go turbo sled with 500-1000 miles seems about right.
 

jim

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Anything "used" with the word "turbo" doesn't hold much value...IMO. Too much risk whether on a sled already or a take-off kit. Especially on 2 strokes.

At best, a perfect used sled with a turbo kit might command 10-15% more in price...for a 2 stroke.

For a 4 stroke, I think it improves a bit...maybe 20% more range. But a 4 stroke handles boost much more consistently and reliably.
 

mountainhorse

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Thanks GM.... I just fixed the typing errors.

Of course for some of the super deluxe, high dollar kits... the numbers would change a bit....
BUT in this day/age where a deluxe brand new kit with W/A intercooler and SS exhaust costs less than $4500... and other brand-new kits costing over $1000 less than that... It is hard to see numbers varying that much.





.
 
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mountainhorse

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Some good tips revisited: Buying a used Turbo kit or Turbo-Sled

TTT/stickie for the new season.

Been getting a lot of messages on this very topic...

Buying/selling a used Turbo or Used Turbo-Sled is something that involves more than "I paid over $xxxx.00 for the kit" .... lots of things to consider.

And with new tech and new 'tunes' coming out every season... and the newer kits being so easy to install... buying a good used non turbo sled and a NEW kit can put you $$ and peace-of-mind ahead.


:face-icon-small-sho




.
 

black z

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Agreed, unless it's an absolute smoking deal, might as well buy a new kit for peace of mind. If you have to pinch pennies to buy a turbo kit, you probably shouldn't be buying a turbo kit. :juggle:
 

Davajn

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Just out of curiousity. Is silber still charging an obscure amount of $$$ to reflash the ecu? Is the maps still locked to the ecu serial nr?

Was so before when i had silber on my pro (which had bogging issues). Now im running a mtntk kit on my axys with the same reflasher (bullydog), and im free to reflash how much i want without any serialnumber obstruction.

What you pay up front should be all what you pay. Not some hidden charging fees that varies on who you ask (100-250$)... Hope that trend is dying!
 

Tahoe54

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I think your scenario #1, option B of no ECU is pretty undervalued, but if you know of someone selling an AXYS Silber kit sans ECU for $1,200 please send them my way because I would like to buy that kit.
 

FurryCURT

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bought a used Turbo 5 years ago for the trade-in price of the stocker at the dealership. ($5500). A boondockers kit on a 2010 Dragon. Had 2500 miles on it and wasn't babied...actually pretty rough cosmetically... This has been the funnest sled and best money I have ever spent on a sled. Pull and go with no problems. I got tossed last season and It found a tree on its own so now I'm trying to decide weather to part it out or find another chassis and swap it out, including a top end freshen-up. If it was newer chassis technology, the answer would be simpler...
 

Snowman.PRO.

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My $0.02 really quick...

In this day and age, whereby turbos plain work (barring a bad install or mechanical failure of a component withing the kit), a person really should never take the turbo off and sell it.

Powersports world is really the only world where returning something to stock is a "thing", and to be honest, it shouldn't be.

Ethically, selling a sled as "stock" after it has had heavy performance modifications is BS.

Parting something out (totaled sled), this I get, and is the only excuse for selling a turbo kit second hand IMO.

With that said, what value does the turbo add to the sled? That's highly dependent on who installed it, who ran it, the condition of the sled, etc.

If I were to buy a turbo sled second hand, I'd likely need to see it run, and plan on doing a top end regardless. Cheap PM. I'd also expect to buy the whole sled (assuming no other mods) for about the same price as an in-season stocker. So $11.5-12K for a pull-and-go turbo sled with 500-1000 miles seems about right.
Just bought a used 16 axys 163x2.6 800, 688 miles, tki tensioner, z bros a arms, clickers, burandt bags, silber turbo, zrp clutch cover.
Bad was, a few scratches here and there, one small crack in hood. Still 100% function.
I think it was a snowchecked? Powder coated rails, bumper, spindles on it.
12k I paid. I felt 11,500 was a steal and 12 was good.
Seen new 18s nearly identical for 13,500 to 15,500 this year.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

gonehuntnpowder

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IMO.
1 year old and less than 500 miles I would pay 1000-1500 over compatible stock.
2 year old less than 1500 miles not a penny more than stock.
3 years old 1-2 k less than compatible stock.

I know it's harsh, but that is truly where I was when I sold mine. A snowmobile is a hole to throw your money. That is amplified by a turbo. If you are looking at the turbo and money is the measurement you are using don't buy it. If it's about fun they will create a smile it takes surgery to remove.
 

madmax

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There a lot of guys out there that buy a new sled every year regardless of how much they ride it. A lot of these guys do turbos. You can get very good deals on these sleds if you search. I helped 3 friends buy 1 year old sidekick axys sleds at the beginning of this season. All the sleds we bought were one season/year old (2017’s)and had between 400 & 600 miles and sidekicks dealer installed when new. All 3 where snowcheck sleds. Purchased for $13,000-$14,000 (pretty much what the sled cost new without the turbo). These used sleds also had a lot of other options ($1500-$4000 worth). On the other hand I had 6 friends each buy new left over 17’s, non snowcheck. Paid $10,600 for the sled and $4000 installed for the sidekick.
In both scenarios, used vs new, they all got a great turbo sidekick axys. The guys who bought new paid roughly $1000 more, but got no options and had non snocheck sleds. Of the two groups, one sled from each group had a problem during the year requiring dealer work. One of the used sleds broke the exhaust cable and was fixed under warranty. One of the new sleds had a wiring harness gremlin and didn’t run good most of the year, 3 trips to the dealer for diagnosis before the harness was replaced under warranty.
This is our similar scenario every year the last few years. Personally I wouldn’t buy a used turbo axys with more than 1,000 miles on it unless it was a screaming good deal, like almost free.
 
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