O
Moving on... I have some beans I bet you would like!!! LOL
SKI DOO OIL TANK CAP... A $14.99 alternative
- Thread starter TRS
- Start date
Moving on... I have some beans I bet you would like!!! LOL
Oh come on OS....this has you fired up but I get your point.
It needs to be tested on a Polaris that is ridden HARD. And for the price, isn't it worth a try?
This is sport where I'm always blowing money (or modifying, strengthening)on something that I think might/could prevent a heli ride. Considering where we put these sleds and what we put them through, the "safety" mentality comes to my mind.
2 day sled retrievals and recoveries. I'm not kidding.
So yes, this looks like an option. Not everybody has enough parts laying around to make their own. I do and also have a ton of transmission parts/vents, etc. laying around but come on $14.99 is nothing for a sledder.
Not everybody rides Central Oregon. Some ride in some very sketchy areas....BC...God I love that place. Next time we go I am going to invite you. Because Washington and Oregon have nothing on that place.
I don't work on alot of sleds but I work on enough. And I have seen a pattern since I found my Dragon with continuing air in main and auxilary oil lines. That motor lasted 322 miles. I bled the lines 2 times then boom.
I had never blown up a stock motor since my modded out 521 Rotax in 1985.
I wasn't paying attention before this to air in line's and caps not venting in the shop even when being shaken as much as possible.
I've been seeing the same thing with the Pro's.
If you are working on Pro's that are riding aggressively off trail, rolling over sleds all day and getting abused and have the stock cap, then you are going to see this.
Boy the typing issues with this site are back tonight!!!
As I stated earlier, I picked up a Paasso vented cap for my new rig.
However, in any of the "oil cap" threads circulating, one fix for the stock PI cap I haven't seen floated yet is, why not just disassemble, and go to a slightly larger ball bearing? Wouldn't that be effective in keeping the post type valve open?? Seems logical enough to me, but in full disclosure I've had a few happy pops tonight
However, in any of the "oil cap" threads circulating, one fix for the stock PI cap I haven't seen floated yet is, why not just disassemble, and go to a slightly larger ball bearing? Wouldn't that be effective in keeping the post type valve open?? Seems logical enough to me, but in full disclosure I've had a few happy pops tonight
E
Oregon,
It seems through some objective testing done on this cap, along with testing I have read on the stock cap, this new suggestion should not perform WORSE than a stock cap.
So then does it really matter if there is a problem with the stock Polaris cap or not? If it makes someone sleep better at night believing they spent $15 to protect their engine, then it was money well spent on their end.
You may not be convinced there IS a problem but you will not convince others there is NOT a problem by simply telling them to stop wasting money.
I have spent more money for less return in the past. You make more everyday and you can't take it with you.
It seems through some objective testing done on this cap, along with testing I have read on the stock cap, this new suggestion should not perform WORSE than a stock cap.
So then does it really matter if there is a problem with the stock Polaris cap or not? If it makes someone sleep better at night believing they spent $15 to protect their engine, then it was money well spent on their end.
You may not be convinced there IS a problem but you will not convince others there is NOT a problem by simply telling them to stop wasting money.
I have spent more money for less return in the past. You make more everyday and you can't take it with you.
O
Good morning Dave. A couple of comments. First I'm hardly all fired up. I have been having some fun with this thread and hoping to get a guy or two to think for themselves. Second, you make some assumptions on where I ride or have ridden. Regardless of the places I have ridden, do you also assume that when I do ride in Central Oregon that I don't have prolonged periods of pinned riding situations? I guess I'm trying to figure out why you think riding in Central Oregon somehow negates this so called cap issue.
News flash! Since last night I did further research on his matter. I think I have it figured out!
As previously stated, this Polaris cap has been used for years. This concern over venting is new. It has surfaced since that guy who makes aluminum neck sleeves for the oil tanks began selling his product. Before his product showed up on the market, these oil tanks leaked oil and made a mess. That leakage also allowed air in!! Bingo!! Remove those sleeves and problem solved.
Of course I’m jesting here, his neck sleeves are not the problem, but I suspect I could get some guys here to believe it was a problem with little effort.
If guys want to trade one vented cap for another without any proof there is any difference in potential air reduction potential, then go for it. I think they would make great stocking stuffers! Merry Christmas.
I think that it is great that we can have these discussions on here... and that we have very capable people like Oregon sledder, TRS, D Dave, GForce and others talking about it.
I was also a doubting thomas about the cap and the venting... made lengthy posts about it too...but there have been some good arguments about lack of venting and the issue related to it... so, like Oregonsledder, I'm going to try something out to see if it changes it... I see the duckbill-valve-cap helping out as much as a remote-check-valve and its simple/cheap.. so... I'll try it.
Even if there is no issue with the stock Polaris cap venting... I really dont see it doing any harm running a remote valve, remote vent line, Passo Cap or the XPS cap... and IF there is an issue with the stock cap venting...then these items could help greatly.
In defense of Oregonsledder, he is great contributor to this site and an asset to our members here.. helping out and giving solid advice to others all the time. It's good to be skeptical and discuss things which is exactly what he is doing here.
Pray for snow... and keep on thinking!!
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I was also a doubting thomas about the cap and the venting... made lengthy posts about it too...but there have been some good arguments about lack of venting and the issue related to it... so, like Oregonsledder, I'm going to try something out to see if it changes it... I see the duckbill-valve-cap helping out as much as a remote-check-valve and its simple/cheap.. so... I'll try it.
Even if there is no issue with the stock Polaris cap venting... I really dont see it doing any harm running a remote valve, remote vent line, Passo Cap or the XPS cap... and IF there is an issue with the stock cap venting...then these items could help greatly.
In defense of Oregonsledder, he is great contributor to this site and an asset to our members here.. helping out and giving solid advice to others all the time. It's good to be skeptical and discuss things which is exactly what he is doing here.
Pray for snow... and keep on thinking!!
.
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So then are you lying about your location?
I've ridden Central Oregon many times and what I am saying is I haven't been able to ride as extreme terrain as I can in BC. That will have more of an effect on the cap vent than you might think.
From what I see with my testing, it's not so much just riding with a pinned flipper, it's more of an issue with the sleds that are constantly off camber, with x-y-z plane attitudes that are far from zero with the pinned flipper. More extreme riding areas and riding will have more cap issues not venting.
You are correct about the caps going back a ways however, prior to the IQ Chassis, the caps were mounted at an attitude of zero degree's on the oil tanks for edges, etc. Not to mention, those sleds did not have the ability for riders to put them into the the extreme places and people like me were not able to ride them like we could the rider forward IQ's and Pro's.
When the IQ chassis came out, the cap was sitting at approximately 25ish degrees. The Pro is a tad less but pull the oil line off the motor in your shop and the cap vent has the line locked. I've wasted alot of time but each sled does this with the stock cap.
I took a cap off a 2002 550 and while it looks the same, the threads were just a tiny bit different, metric? It acted like it wanted to strip.
S
$14.99 alternative
its worth the buy just based on the grips are larger so you can really crank on it to loosen it if its too tight.
its worth the buy just based on the grips are larger so you can really crank on it to loosen it if its too tight.
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V
Done fixed it for you.
After the paid R&D teams tore down cats, poo and doo recognized the chance to further reduce cost of assembly and parts with a simple cap, instead of check valves and hoses and fittings. Each application is abit different, of course. Sometimes stuff works, sometimes it doesn't, and we are the unpaid R&D team that lives with the consequences.
I don't know if it's an issue or not - no two rides are ever the same for anyone (and I do have an extra hole drilled in the cap in multiple sleds, just for giggles), and I don't expect Team Poo to ever give it up if they know it's an issue. If they change the design again, that could tell you something. I just appreciate all the out of the box thinking and solutions here by guys with deep experience, usually without the desperate househosebag dramas.
I don't know if it's an issue or not - no two rides are ever the same for anyone (and I do have an extra hole drilled in the cap in multiple sleds, just for giggles), and I don't expect Team Poo to ever give it up if they know it's an issue. If they change the design again, that could tell you something. I just appreciate all the out of the box thinking and solutions here by guys with deep experience, usually without the desperate househosebag dramas.
C
Wish I had seen this before getting the paasco cap haha oh well
I did a 45 second "static" drain test today with the oil tank mounted in the sled. All components and oil were at shop temp, 60F. Tank was filled with oil to the bottom of the neck. Here are the results and pictures. I don't know if it has any relevancy but thought I would pass it along.
No cap 105ml
PAASO 100ml
BRP 60ml
Polaris 17ml
No cap 105ml
PAASO 100ml
BRP 60ml
Polaris 17ml
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R
That's how I take it.
Yes.
I pulled the line from the oil pump and added a fuel valve. I timed it with a stop watch. Added the oil back to the tank for the next flow test. Does that clear it up?
Makes sense, I just picked up a doo cap today $12.99 I'll give it a try. I calculated 80-90:1 after the first 200 miles on my 2015 rmk with the pump turned up 2 3/8 turns. It is now 3 3/4 will have to wait and see where its at. When I removed my stock cap last weekend I could hear a hiss come out (pressure built up).
Even better for those who enjoy splitting hairs as they would contend the results may be skewed from varying head pressure.
Seriously though, thanks for taking the time to do the testing & then sharing the info.!
I'm waiting to test the low cost "Geo oil cap" mod(3 X .020" holes drilled under the cap) I performed on my machine this winter.
Prior to doing this I've only been able to get 50 : 1 with the adjuster set 2 - 3 threads from max. while running dishwater thin synthetic oil.
I always wondered why some people report oil consumption up to 30 : 1 while I'm struggling to get over 50 : 1 & then I read last year's oil cap thread and it all became clear.
I'll be reporting back with some real numbers providing I can rack up enough miles this season.
Thank YOU! TRS That Quantifies things quite handily!
That is enough quantifiable proof for me to do anything other than leave a stock cap on there. Pretty obvious to me that having the capacity for more flow to the pump will be of benefit. Even if the 17mL in 45 seconds is adequate. Which is still up for dabate; additionally the Stock cap with the lowest flow value leaves the least error margin available. Think variables such as belt dust adhearing to the oily residue, manufacturing differences, etc. Even with the Paaso or BRP more than half plugged off you still get about twice the oil to the pump! (Granted I'm making an assumption there) as the stock cap can provide.
I'll do my own flow study with my chosen mods, while waiting for our snow to arrive. Currently I have done the "GEO goretex mod" to all three of my stock caps. I use Legend so I will do a "No Cap" test to quantify / compare my results to add validity to the tests. I'm curious how many 0.020" holes are needed to equal the "No Cap" flow rate, and still have no leakage with prolonged inverted positioning. After drilling the needed number of 0.020" holes I'll invert the tank and see if it ever drips, and if it does how long that takes.
Another test as eluded to below; Would be a total tank drain, timed test. I can do that as soon as I get off work for the no cap and Geo moded cap. I do not have an unmodified cap from memory, but will check my parts bins. And have not bought the BRP or Paaso caps, as I liked the cheapness and simplicity of the Geo Goretex Vent Mod.
That is enough quantifiable proof for me to do anything other than leave a stock cap on there. Pretty obvious to me that having the capacity for more flow to the pump will be of benefit. Even if the 17mL in 45 seconds is adequate. Which is still up for dabate; additionally the Stock cap with the lowest flow value leaves the least error margin available. Think variables such as belt dust adhearing to the oily residue, manufacturing differences, etc. Even with the Paaso or BRP more than half plugged off you still get about twice the oil to the pump! (Granted I'm making an assumption there) as the stock cap can provide.
I'll do my own flow study with my chosen mods, while waiting for our snow to arrive. Currently I have done the "GEO goretex mod" to all three of my stock caps. I use Legend so I will do a "No Cap" test to quantify / compare my results to add validity to the tests. I'm curious how many 0.020" holes are needed to equal the "No Cap" flow rate, and still have no leakage with prolonged inverted positioning. After drilling the needed number of 0.020" holes I'll invert the tank and see if it ever drips, and if it does how long that takes.
Another test as eluded to below; Would be a total tank drain, timed test. I can do that as soon as I get off work for the no cap and Geo moded cap. I do not have an unmodified cap from memory, but will check my parts bins. And have not bought the BRP or Paaso caps, as I liked the cheapness and simplicity of the Geo Goretex Vent Mod.
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O
TRS has taken the time to provide more info, I appreciate his effort. My first observation is this, that much oil in 45 seconds. Take the least amount, the Polaris, that amount of oil in 45 seconds... multiply that by several hours of riding. That would be gallons of oil, way more than required for adequate oiling. Even under extreme flow rate periods it would seem that there would be more than enough oil to get the job done. Imagine the amount of oil in 45 seconds under pump vacuum, (more real world) instead of just gravity. IMHO this tests shows that all of the options provide more than enough oil. So this seems to be, does the Polaris cap vent well enough to provide ample oil... yes, but does it stick? Still not proof of that for me.
Thanks TRS.
Thanks TRS.
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