riot fixed strut length

needpowder

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Rode again on Monday afternoon in completely different conditions. The huge storm where got about 4 feet settled and hardened with some warmer weather. Then on Sunday we got about 12 to 14 inches of grappely fairly dense cream. Riding on Monday was fantastic—still occasional face shots but with a decent base underneath. Still lots of hollow spots and hazards of course. The Riot kit is pretty amazing. I left the clickers in the middle position for most of the day and messed with the preload on the rear shock a little but did not find any benefit going either way in these conditions. The kit did amazingly well in my opinion and was super fun to ride! On one extended downhill I turned the rear clicker to soft and it was even more fun and playful.
Traded out with my buddy on his Aro 3 for a little bit. Same bike, same pipe, same pr2. That track hooks up amazingly well but I wanted to switch back almost right away. There will be times where I will have to poach his track for sure but the Riot was more fun and plenty capable in these conditions. Don’t get me wrong, the Aro 3 was still super fun. Felt nimble as well but definitely can feel the track back there.
Found a pretty good jump that I hit about 10 times sometimes even landing in the same bomb hole and the Riot soaked it right up. Stoked!
Deep snow is coming this weekend so the conditions will be different again next ride.
 

needpowder

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Friday... In about 15-18 inches of new snow. Heavier than our usual Utah snow. Winds had been strong so it was drifted in places. Started with the clickers in the middle but fairly quickly ended up turning the rear clockwise to the stiffest and the front track shock to the softest. Seemed to stay on top of the snow better. Before in this position, it seemed like it was pushing the front end down too much on downhills. Now that there is a base though, I didn’t really notice that. Pretty happy with my set up. I feel like the clickers will change day to day and a few times during each day. Skied with the kids today but get to ride tomorrow morning and the snow should be a bit lighter on top. Looks like we squeezed about 24 total out of this system so tomorrow should be another good test. Planning to play with fork height a little.
 

needpowder

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Way too cold today to take my gloves off and play with fork height like i planned. Awesome conditions. Much lighter. Super deep. Felt like my kit was not doing that well today and then I talked to my two riding partners. One Aro 3 and one CMX 129 and they both said the exact same thing! Awesome day. Rear clicker all the way clockwise front quicker in the middle. Still felt light on the front end going downhill when I needed to pick it up over down trees. Aro 3 was definitely winning today but the Riot held it’s own.
 

cbc76am

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First ride, I can't wheelie much, even with preload off the rear and damping hard/soft. Ski pressure was acceptable but a tad twitchy. Forks are stiff with the aro setup. Backed my clickers out 10 and no added air with .60 springs.

I did center to center of the eyelet on strut length at stock measurements. Perhaps it was supposed to be measured end to end. I'll be taking some turns off it.

It's stiff... Not sure I'm a fan of the fixed strut. Think I'll send the tss out for valving.

Turns great, whoops are handled well, but it's stiff and will step out in bumps hit aggressively.

Got some work to do, but it is playful and quick handling.
 

cbc76am

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Oh and what is with the strut rod not being reverse threaded on one side like my 15 SX. I need a stand and to remove the top shock bolt to adjust the rod?? Lame af.
 
Dec 20, 2007
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Oh and what is with the strut rod not being reverse threaded on one side like my 15 SX. I need a stand and to remove the top shock bolt to adjust the rod?? Lame af.
You're 15sx had a reverse thread strut? Mine didn't. Must have been a custom deal. I haven't seen any ts that way but I wish they were.

I rode yesterday in the the giant marshmallow forest... the base was gone at the bottom (around 9k) in the creek bottoms going up hill it was basically neck deep. my base riot in wheelie mode would still go through it in 2nd gear power band but the bike would just point almost straight up with half the ski out of the snow. I turned the rear spring preload 3 turns stiffer and it helped a little but still not enough to get into 3rd and float on top. When we got over 10k there was a layer of dense snow about 18" down and could really hook up. If I started to dig through the layer I just had to slightly chop throttle and lessen climb angle and it would climb back up and keep moving. It was amazing. My thoughts the whole time was why would any one need an Aro3? It was for sure the only time a 3" might have been better than a riot but I easily got to the very top in the thickest north facing trees on the mountain on probably the deepest day of the year. My buddy on a 450 raw was struggling in my tracks.
The only kit that has out climbed my riot so far was my custom built 120 on my 300 I sold to a buddy. It is moved almost 4 inches more forward than the riot. It will float on the base less stuff better and it wheelies like the riot but it doesn't have the hp as my 360 so if I can get on top I win.
 

needpowder

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First ride, I can't wheelie much, even with preload off the rear and damping hard/soft. Ski pressure was acceptable but a tad twitchy. Forks are stiff with the aro setup. Backed my clickers out 10 and no added air with .60 springs.

I did center to center of the eyelet on strut length at stock measurements. Perhaps it was supposed to be measured end to end. I'll be taking some turns off it.

It's stiff... Not sure I'm a fan of the fixed strut. Think I'll send the tss out for valving.

Turns great, whoops are handled well, but it's stiff and will step out in bumps hit aggressively.

Got some work to do, but it is playful and quick handling.
I see what you mean about the skid being stiff. I spent some time on a whooped out road playing with Settings. I ended up backing my rebound compression off 8 clicks and cranking my rebound dampening in 8 clicks. The front end feels pretty good there. .62 springs 5 pounds of air. Stock oil weight and height. I’m sure it could be better but it is not bad. The skid on the other hand, not so much. I am happy with its performance climbing up through the trees in soft snow but it needs some help in the bumps. Maybe the TSS with X valving is the answer. It got a little better when I backed both shocks off a few turns on the spring but I am afraid I will give up performance when I jump that way. Time will tell. I have a TSS that I was going to sell with my old kit but I haven’t got much interest in it so maybe I will just keep it and re-valve it.
Another note on the forks. I tried raising my forks in the triple clamp by a pretty good amount. Didn’t measure but it looks like almost half an inch. Going up through the trees it seemed to work better. Climbed on top of the snow easier and stayed there. Same gear, but felt like I was going a little faster. Didn’t notice any difference on the road.
 

cbc76am

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my fork is 12 clicks out compression and 5 out rebound... no air added yet, .60 springs. not that far off of yours and it seems like a good starting point. (i'm 175lbs and a vet ex-pro - so aggressive af) The skid I've got some work to do with. I've tried a bit of click and spring but haven't found where it wants to ride comfortably on anything hard packed. I lowered the rear a bit for the next ride out and left the forks tall... we'll see but I talked to Brock Hoyer and he's all in on the xtune. of course he's sponsored by fox so why wouldn't he be :) I'm trying to find another used TSS so I can send it in.
 

needpowder

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Five out on the rebound? Interesting. I have usually found that going the other way helps but I didn’t really try it further out. Hopefully I get to ride again soon. Christmas is kind of waddling me up. I am 6’1 165 dry. I have the TSS and doesn’t seem like it is making me any money to sell it with my old kit so I will try the X tune.
 

needpowder

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Five out on the rebound? Interesting. I have usually found that going the other way helps but I didn’t really try it further out. Hopefully I get to ride again soon. Christmas is kind of waddling me up. I am 6’1 165 dry. I have the TSS and doesn’t seem like it is making me any money to sell it with my old kit so I will try the X tune.
Oh wait. I get it. Duh. Five out from closed. So we are definitely close.
 
Dec 20, 2007
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Interesting you found sliding the forks up makes it feel faster. I always felt like it feels more like it's rolling when I remove ski pressure. Have you noticed if the ski seems to wash out more in wheelie mode? It feels like it can too me but throttle correction will easily fix it.

Finally got some whoops in a few spots. Going straight feels just like a bike but it tries to step out in whooped corners. Probably too fast rebound but not a big deal. I don't have clickers and its not worth time to revalve. I'll address it when I change the shock oil. Still loving my soft as butter 150xcw fork. I can't believe it works so well. It never bottoms. But the skid bottoms out pretty easy. But my bike is super light on the front. Only 115lbs on the ski and 175 on the track with 2 gallons of fuel. If I add more fuel the front gets even lighter because the tank is behind the pivot of the center shock.

Craziest thing I learned tuning bike suspension in monster dessert whoops was once had a perfect setup but the rear felt a little soft so I dialed up more rear compression and instantly the fork started bottoming. I rode the same section multiple times to verify and softened the rear the fork stopped bottoming. So an overly stiff fork could theoretically make the rear miss behave as well.
 

needpowder

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Eric, sliding the forks up made it feel like it stayed on top of the snow better. The same effect could probably be had by adjusting the strut length, but it was easier in the field to do the forks. I think it just moved the balance point a little further forward. As far as the ski washing out, yes, it does feel like it could wash a little easier in wheelie mode. That’s was the biggest benefit between the aro and the mountain horse ski in my opinion.The aro ski holds pretty dang well blasting downhill in powder. Time will tell on that. Most of my descents have only been medium steepness and I haven’t been pinning it downhill busting side to side yet in deep snow.
 

cbc76am

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A timbersled ambassador advised a guy I know to loosen both front and rear preload to 8 7/8" and boom... wheelies for days. I'll be trying that new years day.
 

needpowder

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Got to do a little bit more testing while I was waiting for some buddies to show up yesterday. First the forks. I had 7 pounds of air pressure. Removed that completely. Definitely a little bit softer on the whoops. Bottomed out a couple times during the day jumping and hitting a compression hard one time. Didn’t love that for overall riding. Maybe I’ll just run a couple pounds of air or even go in on the compression slightly. Didn’t play very much, just wanted to try it without any air. I’m sure I mentioned it earlier but .62 Springs stock valving and oil weight and height.
Next I tried backing off the rebound dampening on the front track shock significantly. Didn’t really see any improvement in the whoops. If anything, maybe less compliant.That was about all the time I had before my buddies showed up. I dropped my TSS off last Friday and am excited to try the X tune. Dealer said hopefully two weeks.
 
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A timbersled ambassador advised a guy I know to loosen both front and rear preload to 8 7/8" and boom... wheelies for days. I'll be trying that new years day.
Measuring preload is Probably the best way to scientifically quantify wheelieness but results will still vary bike to bike depending on struts, fork height and even weight bias between 2 and 4 strokes.

My preloads are 8.75 front and 8.25 rear. I Was running 8 in the rear in the early season fluff. Now there is some base and traction 8.25 seems ok. More pre load helps support the bike. The riot is still a falling rate design and if you jump you need a lot of preload or a tss. All the suspension work needs to be done in the top half of the stroke because below that the damping rates get softer not stiffer.
 
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