Riding woop outs

[thewwkayaker]

Just looking for pointers on how to ride woop outs (waves in hardpacked snow created usually by sledders).

Got back from a ski and snowbike hut trip. First day, after the 30km sled in and dropping gear at the hut we headed to the sled area to check it out. There is a single track sled in to where they play. That track had 4 foot high waves. My (inexperience) had me going very slow but then the bike is hard to balance and I'd often ping pong when forced to corner (over correcting repeatedly). Hardest thing I"ve experienced so far on the bike.

The sledders hate it too but they don't have the balance issue for the most part.

What is the best way to deal with these conditions? I looked for optional routes but the trees were too tight to sneak it. The usual woop outs I've experienced were much much smaller - unpleasant but could be handled easier.

 

[AllHatNoCattle]

If you have to hit the whoops then that's what you have to do. Stand on the pegs and let the bike see-saw under you.

I always ride the edges, because that is where they are the smallest or don't exist. However thats not always possible with single track style trails.

Keep and eye on your bike temps when you do this. Bikes get hot working up whooped out trails with little speed.

 

[needpowder]

All hat just gave you huge advice. Once you start calling them whoops they will be way easier.

Assuming you are riding them without your skis on the back and not in your telemarketer boots.
Basically though the way to hit whoops is to stand up and lean back and hit them a little faster. This doesn’t always work though especially if they are 4 feet tall and your trail is only one and a half sleds wide. Setting your suspension to lighten up the front end depending on what kit you are on can be super helpful in this situation but… There has to be an alternative route that you are not seeing.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Maybe just get a sled?

 

[thewwkayaker]

Maybe just get a sled?

They hate it too and a buddy got stuck when he paused for a second - had to get a pull to get going again. Although they don't have to balance on their sleds like you do on a bike (both going really slow), it's tough for everyone.

As to the comment with such pearls of wisdom you could have added "just stay at home" "going fishing" etc etc. Not sure the point of the comment.

 

[thewwkayaker]

Assuming you are riding them without your skis on the back and not in your telemarketer boots.
Basically though the way to hit whoops is to stand up and lean back and hit them a little faster. This doesn’t always work though especially if they are 4 feet tall and your trail is only one and a half sleds wide. Setting your suspension to lighten up the front end depending on what kit you are on can be super helpful in this situation but… There has to be an alternative route that you are not seeing.

I thought of making the ski a bit lighter. The trail was pretty tight in many places and where it opened up the sledders had torn it up as well since they didn't like the giant woops either (thus making every option terrible). There were two steep climbs which, once you got on them were nice because the sleds didn't go on/off their throttle so it was smooth. I figure I just need to learn to ride them better - it's a workout for sure though. The trail was about 2km (this was after 35km of groomed road). Probably I need to be on the pegs and roll with them as much as possible. Also I need to work on reducing my corrections - at times, esp in a turn, I'd find myself moving to one edge so I'd correct but then find myself going to the other edge. Perhaps it's just practice although it was the first I'd seen something that bad. Once in the open it was a nice play area and there is an area of burnt trees you can ride around nicely.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

They hate it too and a buddy got stuck when he paused for a second - had to get a pull to get going again. Although they don't have to balance on their sleds like you do on a bike (both going really slow), it's tough for everyone.

As to the comment with such pearls of wisdom you could have added "just stay at home" "going fishing" etc etc. Not sure the point of the comment.

The point was merely to eliminate one aspect of frustration.

I've owned and ridden a bunch of different snowbikes in a bunch of different conditions.

Different tools for different jobs.

When it's good ride the bike.

When it's bad ride the sled.

 

[needpowder]

The point was merely to eliminate one aspect of frustration.

I've owned and ridden a bunch of different snowbikes in a bunch of different conditions.

Different tools for different jobs.

When it's good ride the bike.

When it's bad ride the sled.

Agree completely. The snowmobile is an amazing tool at times. I ride my Snow Bike because it is way better for steep technical downhills in pow pow. In the last 15 years, I have only brought my skis less than a dozen times with my machines. Spoiled because I have Snowbird/alta 12 miles from my house plus as much epic backcountry to easily skin right out of the car that I would want. The sled has a much longer learning curve than the bike. When we were using it for ski access to film, it took many years to dial it in. After I retired from that game, the sled became my backcountry weapon to fulfill my powder addiction. Fast forward, six or seven years later in the Snow Bike allowed me to do things that were just way too gnarly on a sled. I still ski 40 to 50 times a year, but my snowbike is currently my real passion. Much easier to handle mediocre conditions and crowds with my young girls at the bird after i have had hrs of steep faceshotts on my bike while rarely seeing another person not in my group. Plus, I make my own decisions about how to stay alive not patrol.
Sorry for the long windedness but the point is sometimes a snowmobile is by far the best tool for accessing ski terrain. If i had to ride my snow bike more than half a mile from my truck on a trail I would probably only own snowmobiles.

 

[M5-]

One tip for riding that kind of trail in the corners is: If you are seated try to carry a bit of speed through the corners and drive the bike side to side using your inner thighs on the tank. It doesn't mean you still don't have to steer but you will be able to control the bike better at speed. I have to remind myself to do it at times but it will eliminate arm pump and give you more control. I use my legs a lot everywhere.

M5

 

[thewwkayaker]

Agree completely. The snowmobile is an amazing tool at times. I ride my Snow Bike because it is way better for steep technical downhills in pow pow. In the last 15 years, I have only brought my skis less than a dozen times with my machines. Spoiled because I have Snowbird/alta 12 miles from my house plus as much epic backcountry to easily skin right out of the car that I would want. The sled has a much longer learning curve than the bike. When we were using it for ski access to film, it took many years to dial it in. After I retired from that game, the sled became my backcountry weapon to fulfill my powder addiction. Fast forward, six or seven years later in the Snow Bike allowed me to do things that were just way too gnarly on a sled. I still ski 40 to 50 times a year, but my snowbike is currently my real passion. Much easier to handle mediocre conditions and crowds with my young girls at the bird after i have had hrs of steep faceshotts on my bike while rarely seeing another person not in my group. Plus, I make my own decisions about how to stay alive not patrol.
Sorry for the long windedness but the point is sometimes a snowmobile is by far the best tool for accessing ski terrain. If i had to ride my snow bike more than half a mile from my truck on a trail I would probably only own snowmobiles.

1. No snowmobile, no plans to get one. Have no interest in spending the time to learn to use one either. I mostly tour and go ski mountaineering. I've mtn biked for 25 years and really wanted to try the bike. It's fun and good for bad snow conditions and I'm enjoying the learning curve.
2. The "goods" once reached were fun on the bike.
3. Unlike bringing a violin to a tennis match, the bike works but *I* need to learn how to handle these conditions. It's hard and exhausting but working at it I'm sure I can get better (and thus work less) at it. I've only had around 10 rides on it and I'm not a power guy i.e. no dirt bike/quad background.
4. Lots of easy to access ski terrain here too but me personally - I like to ski different mountains all the time. While others will go to the same easy haunts, hit unique lines etc, I'm far less about the skiing and more about getting up different mountains. Sled, snowbike, quad with track all basically work to get people up an FSR to somewhere new - then I climb. I also like the fitness which gives me abilities to access big tours on terrain no machine is allowed (parks).

I have a quad with tracks that I use at times for skiing. It works quite well unless it's early season with a huge dump but then as long as a sled goes first it still goes. Only once did I run into an issue - needed to side hill to continue and they can't side hill. It works well - can carry a lot of gear, can run thru creeks that are still running and full of rocks, is slower but hard to get stuck in normal conditions, takes no skill. Since the purpose of the trip is to ski it works great (unless something requires you to side hill - landslide or large avy debris, etc). The bike is more fun unless the road is pounded by sleds, and can add to a day of fun. Plus with friends on their sleds, if we head to an area that has both such as the last trip the atv wouldn't work.

I guess there are few tips to deal wtih monster size endless waves/woops (it was seriously like being in the ocean in a storm - no break between waves). Need to find a place that has them to practice on them I guess. Perhaps treat them like a pump track (poorly designed pump track).

Thanx for the thought though.

 

[needpowder]

1. No snowmobile, no plans to get one. Have no interest in spending the time to learn to use one either. I mostly tour and go ski mountaineering. I've mtn biked for 25 years and really wanted to try the bike. It's fun and good for bad snow conditions and I'm enjoying the learning curve.
2. The "goods" once reached were fun on the bike.
3. Unlike bringing a violin to a tennis match, the bike works but *I* need to learn how to handle these conditions. It's hard and exhausting but working at it I'm sure I can get better (and thus work less) at it. I've only had around 10 rides on it and I'm not a power guy i.e. no dirt bike/quad background.
4. Lots of easy to access ski terrain here too but me personally - I like to ski different mountains all the time. While others will go to the same easy haunts, hit unique lines etc, I'm far less about the skiing and more about getting up different mountains. Sled, snowbike, quad with track all basically work to get people up an FSR to somewhere new - then I climb. I also like the fitness which gives me abilities to access big tours on terrain no machine is allowed (parks).

I have a quad with tracks that I use at times for skiing. It works quite well unless it's early season with a huge dump but then as long as a sled goes first it still goes. Only once did I run into an issue - needed to side hill to continue and they can't side hill. It works well - can carry a lot of gear, can run thru creeks that are still running and full of rocks, is slower but hard to get stuck in normal conditions, takes no skill. Since the purpose of the trip is to ski it works great (unless something requires you to side hill - landslide or large avy debris, etc). The bike is more fun unless the road is pounded by sleds, and can add to a day of fun. Plus with friends on their sleds, if we head to an area that has both such as the last trip the atv wouldn't work.

I guess there are few tips to deal wtih monster size endless waves/woops (it was seriously like being in the ocean in a storm - no break between waves). Need to find a place that has them to practice on them I guess. Perhaps treat them like a pump track (poorly designed pump track).

Thanx for the thought though.

Nice. I gotcha. It sounds like you know what you like and are on the right track. Obviously, when not coming from a motorsport background, things can be a bit challenging at first. You will figure it out. I am sure. The snowmobile learning curve I was referring to is more for trying to ride like Burandt. I would think hopping on the trails/access that you have since you are referring to a quad with tracks that you could pick that up pretty quick as well. I imagine in time you will start to take your bike into more terrain that you would normally ski because it is also super fun but i hear you about the uphill being awesome and the experience of new places. have fun and be safe out there.