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Restaurants charging credit card surcharge

K
Nov 30, 2008
342
427
63
Reno, NV
Finding it more and more that when you receive your bill at sit down restaurants, they automatically charge you a "credit card surcharge" BEFORE even knowing how you are paying. I often pay for meals out with CASH and unless you say something, that charge is still included not removed. Total BS and the reason for my rant!

I don't even think they're allowed to do it anyways. Unless things have changed, I thought it was part of the merchant agreement with the credit card companies NOT to charge extra for use of credit cards.
 
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Iron_River

Member
Jan 9, 2023
13
15
3
Iron Springs, Alberta, Canada
Finding it more and more that when you receive your bill at sit down restaurants, they automatically charge you a "credit card surcharge" BEFORE even knowing how you are paying. I often pay for meals out with CASH and unless you say something, that charge is still included not removed. Total BS and the reason for my rant!

I don't even think they're allowed to do it anyways. Unless things have changed, I thought it was part of the merchant agreement with the credit card companies NOT to charge extra for use of credit cards.

In Canada it was recently changed to allow for the charges without large signage. I still believe you should be notified, however I can also understand it just being a blanket policy as quite a large number of people put everything on credit cards for the points. Those charges we retailers are FORCED to pay - there is not negotiation, don't want to pay and you don't get a system - are partly what pay for the points you get... The credit card companies don't give that stuff out by their own free will and goodness...
As a small business - 1 man repair/parts shop in southern Alberta - the 2.8%-3.0% charge can quickly add up to an hour or more of my door rate on an engine job on a quad. My question is why is that my burden to bear because you want to use a card. I give people the option on how to pay and state that 2.8%-3% gets added to the bill if credit card is selected.
Recently with my TKI sales I think 85%+ have opted for e-transfer when given the options available...

I don't like the charges but I can't afford to lose thousands a year because of it. However I do agree that it would be nice to have the option based on how you pay...
 

Mafesto

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
12,264
10,378
113
Northeast SD
We have a similar policy.

Years ago, gas stations (at least in SD) advertised a discount if paid cash. People say that legislation was passed making this practice illegal.
 
K
Nov 30, 2008
342
427
63
Reno, NV
The thinking for years was you accepted credit cards as a business to not lose a sale. Not everyone has large amounts of cash or the funds available to purchase goods or services. Let the customer "finance" the goods or services through their cc , meanwhile the company gets paid and doesn't lose a sale. You ate the 3% and got paid today instead of getting nothing. Eat $30 on a thousand dollar purchase or get nothing. Now, merchant wants it both ways it seems. I sympathize with service industries on large bills but not so much for restaurants and retail businesses.

The cashier yesterday didn't even know how to remove the charge on my bill which tells you they take advantage of all cash paying customers.
 
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Iron_River

Member
Jan 9, 2023
13
15
3
Iron Springs, Alberta, Canada
The thinking for years was you accepted credit cards as a business to not lose a sale. Not everyone has large amounts of cash or the funds available to purchase goods or services. Let the customer "finance" the goods or services through their cc , meanwhile the company gets paid and doesn't lose a sale. You ate the 3% and got paid today instead of getting nothing. Eat $30 on a thousand dollar purchase or get nothing. Now, merchant wants it both ways it seems. I sympathize with service industries on large bills but not so much for restaurants and retail businesses.

The cashier yesterday didn't even know how to remove the charge on my bill which tells you they take advantage of all cash paying customers.

In regards to the eat it or lose it mentality you refer to I offer this opinion. I ate it all last year and lost over $2000 in service charges, entirely due to credit card charges. No, $2k isn't a ton of money however this year is already MUCH busier on the requested card front that I'd surpass that before the 1st quarter is up. SO. I eat it all again this year and end up losing $6k+. Great, I made more money but I lost more money. Well, time to raise the prices on EVERYTHING in here to make up for that loss. OR I can keep my prices where they are and elect to charge those who are using their credit cards. Debit, cash and e-transfer are no extra fees all the time in my shop.

Years ago when credit cards first came in and money was handled differently, everything was different. Today I think credit cards are used as a convenience almost as much as they are used as a necessity. The credit card companies are the real joke in my opinion... 18%-30% interest, plus the 3% charges to merchants..... I'll start loaning money too if I can make 25% on it.... Jeez... haha Billions/year in earnings, multi millions in bonuses for high ranking officials..... now my rant is over.... haha
 
K
Nov 30, 2008
342
427
63
Reno, NV
Like I said Iron River, I sympathize with those in the service industry, guys out there actually doing the work only to have their pay reduced by someone who finds it more "convenient " to pay with plastic.

You are not making widgets for $10, selling then for $40, or charging restaurant customers $3 for a Coke that cost them 30 cents. Restaurants are getting worse and worse trying to pad the ticket with these kinds of charges.
 
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Iron_River

Member
Jan 9, 2023
13
15
3
Iron Springs, Alberta, Canada
Like I said Iron River, I sympathize with those in the service industry, guys out there actually doing the work only to have their pay reduced by someone who finds it more "convenient " to pay with plastic.

You are not making widgets for $10, selling then for $40, or charging restaurant customers $3 for a Coke that cost them 30 cents. Restaurants are getting worse and worse trying to pad the ticket with these kinds of charges.

Correct, I'm not. haha
I'm selling spare belts for TKI belt drives at cost or a buck or two more even though I have to import them because Motion Canada's pricing is nuts. I'm not overly factoring duties and shipping into my pricing on all TKI and choose to use that as a discount, but I will charge 3% to use a credit card... haha
My door rate went up this January for the 1st time in 3 years and it could probably go up more... I am not a very good customer of the restaurant industry but I definitely sympathize with having to charge the charge. I find the bigger the chain the more 0.30 - 3.00 markup exists... Greasy spoons tend to have way better pricing and better food too unless you're a foodie (whatever that is) who likes less food for more money.. haha
 
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Dobber1

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
3,836
784
113
Colorado
In the end, the only winners in the credit/debit card game are the banks. ?

One might say to just raise prices to account for the card transaction fees…ok, but you just gave the processors a raise also.

l’ve been selling a ($500) home improvement product for 17 years without accepting cards. It’s a good way for my customers to make sure they can still find their checkbooks. ? I hear all about the airline miles they’re missing out on by me not taking cards. ? I accept Zelle, Venmo & wire transfer if it’s a convenience issue.

Have family that owns a retail business where 75% of the purchases ($12.26 avg) are done by card, resulting in fees of over $27K last year. ?

lt’s not always just a flat percentage…some processors charge a % + fee (2.6% + .10)
3% on a $10 purchase is better for the retailer than 2.6% + 10 cents. But not so much on a $100 purchase. ?

My .02 ✌️
 

Hawkster

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Apr 22, 2010
8,150
6,388
113
AK
What do you think will happen when every country will have thier own digital currency?

 
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Eatstone

Member
Jan 23, 2021
43
18
8
East Kootenay
I paid almost $70k in credit card fees as a business owner last year. This is a regular yearly cost of doing business for me. That’s enough to hire another staff member in my company. My manager asked if we would be doing this to our customers, passing on this fee. I said no, I don’t want that drama with my customers. I will however adjust my pricing to reflect these costs and unfortunately all consumers pay for it. I regularly have contractors paying their $5k to $80k bill via credit card as they want their “free” points for travel etc. I asked one of them if they accept CC payment when their customer builds a house, he said no of course not ?.
 

bb900

Member
Lifetime Membership
Premium Member
Dec 27, 2008
54
18
8
saskatchewan
I paid almost $70k in credit card fees as a business owner last year. This is a regular yearly cost of doing business for me. That’s enough to hire another staff member in my company. My manager asked if we would be doing this to our customers, passing on this fee. I said no, I don’t want that drama with my customers. I will however adjust my pricing to reflect these costs and unfortunately all consumers pay for it. I regularly have contractors paying their $5k to $80k bill via credit card as they want their “free” points for travel etc. I asked one of them if they accept CC payment when their customer builds a house, he said no of course not ?.
Must be nice try selling fuel where you usually only make 4 cents per liter and some credit cards charge me 4% so when diesel was $2 or better do the math who is winning There?? Ever go to and auction people have no problem paying 10 % or 15% buyers fees. Nothing is free in this world .
 

03RMK800

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
452
173
43
Kremmling, Colorado
A credit card only and eat the cost works for some retail merchants. Faster transactions, more transactions per hour, no cash leaks, no runs to the bank. Then, it gets more interesting--the register and card transaction information goes directly into the bookkeeping system, the credit card processor eventually puts the money in the bank and the merchant paid only the cashier and software as fixed cost.. Besides or even without, more sales, the bookkeeping and bank related labor saved exceeds the merchant fees. That said, the merchant fees are ridiculous.

Colorado used to allow cash discounts, then it didn't. We seem to be back to allowing different cash and credit prices. Apparently, this change also allows "convenience" fees on credit card transactions. Haven't encountered that personally but see convenience fee listed as a possible charge.
 
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Dobber1

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
3,836
784
113
Colorado
Wanna just give us a summary? No way in hell I'm reading through 33 pages!
Just more government telling employers how to run their business.


House Bill 23-1118 requires employers in restaurants, food and beverage manufacturing facilities, and retail jobs with 250 employees or more to provide work schedules to employees with more notice. This also includes restaurant with two or more locations.

It requires employers to post work schedules two weeks in advance, allows employees to request changes to their schedules and requires businesses that cancel shifts last-minute to pay employees.

Any changes to an employee's schedule will also require written employee consent.



Bill Summary

The bill imposes requirements for certain types of employers (restaurants) with regard to:
* The determination of employee work schedules;

* Employee requests for changes to work schedules;

* Notices and posting of employee work schedules.
In addition to pay for hours worked by the employee, the bill
requires certain types of employers to pay employees:

* Predictability pay when an employer makes certain changes
to an employee's work schedule;

* Rest shortfall pay when an employee is required to work
hours without a minimum period of rest after a prior shift;

* Retention pay when an employer provides work hours to a new employee without first offering the work hours toexisting employees;

* Minimum weekly pay in an amount that corresponds to
15% of the average weekly hours indicated on the employee's anticipated work plan, paid at the greater of the employee's regular rate of pay or the minimum wage, regardless of whether the employee works such hours.
The bill prohibits employers from discriminating or taking any adverse action against an employee based on the hours an employee is scheduled or actually works, the expected duration of employment, or the employee's desired work schedule. The bill also prohibits retaliation against an employee for attempting to exercise any right created in the bill. Employers are required to retain records demonstrating their compliance with the requirements of the bill.

A person who is aggrieved by a violation of the requirements of the bill may file a complaint with the division of labor standards and statistics (division) in the department of labor and employment or bring a civil action in district court. The division is authorized to investigate complaints and, upon determining that a violation occurred, to impose fines, penalties, or damages and award attorney fees and costs. The division is also authorized to bring a civil action to enforce the requirements of the bill. The bill includes protections for whistleblowers and establishes penalties for violations.
The director of the division is required to promulgate rules to implement the bill.
 
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Dobber1

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
3,836
784
113
Colorado
Wow.
We are paying people to force this **** on us?
Yep! Just like this BS…

In 2021, the Colorado General Assembly enacted House Bill 21-1162. Beginning January 1, 2024, the act prohibits stores and retail food establishments from providing single-use plastic carryout bags to customers. Certain retail food establishments, and small stores that operate solely in Colorado and have 3 or fewer locations, may provide single-use plastic carryout bags.
Between January 1, 2023, and January 1, 2024, a store may furnish a recycled paper carryout bag or a single-use plastic carryout bag to a customer at the point of sale if the customer pays a fee of 10 cents per bag or a higher fee adopted by the municipality or county in which the store is located. On and after January 1, 2024, a store may furnish only a recycled paper carryout bag to a customer at the point of sale at a fee of 10 cents per bag or a higher fee imposed by the municipality or county in which the store is located.
A store is required to remit, on a quarterly basis beginning April 1, 2024, 60% of the carryout bag fee revenues to the municipality or county within which the store is located and may retain the remaining 40% of the carryout bag fee revenues.
The carryout bag fee does not apply to a customer that provides evidence to the store that the customer is a participant in a federal or state food assistance program.
The act does not apply to materials used in the packaging of pharmaceutical drugs, medical devices, or dietary supplements or any equipment or materials used to manufacture pharmaceutical drugs, medical devices, or dietary supplements.
 
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Dobber1

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
3,836
784
113
Colorado
But wait, there’s more! M’FRs

On July 1, 2022, Colorado imposed a retail delivery fee on all deliveries by motor vehicle to a location in Colorado with at least one item of tangible personal property subject to state sales or use tax.


The retailer or marketplace facilitator that collects the sales or use tax on the tangible personal property sold and delivered, including delivery by a third party, is liable to collect and remit the retail delivery fee. Deliveries include when any taxable goods are mailed, shipped, or otherwise delivered by motor vehicle to a purchaser in Colorado.


The retail delivery fee is due at the same time as your sales tax return. Returns are generally filed on a monthly basis and must be filed on or before the 20th day of the month following each reporting period. Retailers permitted to file state sales tax returns on a quarterly, annual, or other basis will file the retail delivery fee return on the same schedule.


The retail delivery fee is reported and paid on form DR 1786. The retail delivery fee is collected state-wide, does not need to be separated by jurisdiction, and is calculated per sale. The retail delivery fee is made up of six different fees. The rates are listed below.



Fee TypeRate July 2022 to June 2023
Community Access Retail Delivery Fee $ 0.0690
Clean Fleet Retail Delivery Fee $ 0.0530
Clean Transit Retail Delivery Fee $ 0.0300
General Retail Delivery Fee $ 0.0840
Bridge and Tunnel Retail Delivery Fee $ 0.0270
Air Pollution Mitigation Retail Delivery Fee $ 0.0070
Total Retail Delivery Fee $ 0.27




Retailers that make retail deliveries must show the total of the fees on the receipt or invoice as one item called “retail delivery fees”.
If every item in a retail sale is exempt from sales tax, the delivery is also exempt from the retail delivery fee. However, if one or more items in the transaction is subject to sales tax, the retail delivery fee is due. Each sale for delivery is a single “retail delivery” regardless of how many shipments are needed to deliver the items purchased.
 
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