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2020 KTM 500 XCF-W Journey
My 2020 KTM 500 Journey
- Thread starter CB-BLR
- Start date
2020 KTM 500 XCF-W Journey
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About 3 years ago I decided to venture into the realm of Snowbiking and in that vein bought a 2019 ARO 137, and a 2020 KTM 500 XCF-W in late 2019.
I have gone into my 137 and later a pre-production Aro 3s in other places on this forum...so will keep this thread confined to motor stuff.
To say that I was underwhelmed by the nearly stock 500 would be stating it mildly. I learned to ride with this bike and the 137 my first season, and was quite frustrated to say the least. I had de-smogged it, added a muffler end, and was using a fuel controller. When things warmed up, I put on some super-moto wheels and headed over to my friend Nels, who owned 2-Wheel Dyno-Werks to see what this beast was putting down for hp and torque on one of his dyno's. I was rewarded with a print out that stated that it had 40.45 hp at 7500 rpm, and 31.44 ft/lbs or torque at 6200 rpm. Given that we lose about 3% of our horsepower per 1000 ft of elevation...and I typically ride around 5000 ft...that meant that my 245lb self was seeing around 34 hp trying to spin that 137 track...definitely not a zippy experience...ever! I had to wring its neck almost everywhere except for going down the trail.
I have gone into my 137 and later a pre-production Aro 3s in other places on this forum...so will keep this thread confined to motor stuff.
To say that I was underwhelmed by the nearly stock 500 would be stating it mildly. I learned to ride with this bike and the 137 my first season, and was quite frustrated to say the least. I had de-smogged it, added a muffler end, and was using a fuel controller. When things warmed up, I put on some super-moto wheels and headed over to my friend Nels, who owned 2-Wheel Dyno-Werks to see what this beast was putting down for hp and torque on one of his dyno's. I was rewarded with a print out that stated that it had 40.45 hp at 7500 rpm, and 31.44 ft/lbs or torque at 6200 rpm. Given that we lose about 3% of our horsepower per 1000 ft of elevation...and I typically ride around 5000 ft...that meant that my 245lb self was seeing around 34 hp trying to spin that 137 track...definitely not a zippy experience...ever! I had to wring its neck almost everywhere except for going down the trail.
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42mm to 44mm Throttle Body Swap.
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Phase II of my 500 hp studying lead me to performance discussions with Brock Buttars, Jeff from PR2, and the before mentioned Nels.
This phase is represented by the green line in the first dyno picture.
It consisted of:
FMF Muffler
44mm Throttle Body
450 SX intake track
Vortex ignition initially tuned by Jeff, and then fine-tuned by Nels.
Thermo-Bob thermostat.
This combo produced the shown 60.33hp and 40.33 ft/lbs of torque, with a very broad torque curve.
I rode this setup my entire second season of Snow-Biking along with a pre-production Aro 3s that my friend Allen helped me put together.
Needless to say...I now loved the bike. I could climb just about anything in 3rd gear, and had noticeably more torque than my friends 450SX..while still revving as freely as his bike did. Even though I outweigh him by around 45lbs...I could still pass him on most challenging hill climbs.
This phase is represented by the green line in the first dyno picture.
It consisted of:
FMF Muffler
44mm Throttle Body
450 SX intake track
Vortex ignition initially tuned by Jeff, and then fine-tuned by Nels.
Thermo-Bob thermostat.
This combo produced the shown 60.33hp and 40.33 ft/lbs of torque, with a very broad torque curve.
I rode this setup my entire second season of Snow-Biking along with a pre-production Aro 3s that my friend Allen helped me put together.
Needless to say...I now loved the bike. I could climb just about anything in 3rd gear, and had noticeably more torque than my friends 450SX..while still revving as freely as his bike did. Even though I outweigh him by around 45lbs...I could still pass him on most challenging hill climbs.
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Stock 2020 KTM 500 XCF-W vs 550 version I -- Note that the 550 is producing more torque than the stock 500 has horsepower.
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Phase III -- Go Big or Go Home.
I had ridden a big bore 450 (490) on the snow in my second season, and decided that I liked the broader torque of the 500 motor.
Both the 490 and 500 appeared to be equally powered on the snow, but I enjoyed the greater torque of the 500 better. We both agreed that both bikes revved about the same.
I decided to go with a Built Motors (formerly Thumper Racing) 550 big bore for the extra torque, and the ability to go back to the stock cylinder if needed.
I had also had my stock intake pack up with snow so I called AirForce and ordered a intake. The owner was very helpful and excited with my build.
Phase III is represented by the red line in the first dyno sheet.
This build consisted of:
Built Motors 550 kit with 14:1 piston
Air Force Intake
44mm throttle body
Stock 500 cam (tried the 450sx cam and it produced less hp)
Stock Head Pipe
RP Race Muffler
Vortex Ignition.
I rode this combo on the street for about a month and it was a hoot!
I noticed on the dyno printout...and could feel on the street that while I was producing quite a bit more power than the 500, that it nosed over pretty heavily on the top end. I decided that it was good enough and that I would ride it this way for my third season.
It was at this point that Brock suggested that I reach out to David Lloyd of LLoyd Performance and that his shop was about an hour north of Brock's shop.
I had ridden a big bore 450 (490) on the snow in my second season, and decided that I liked the broader torque of the 500 motor.
Both the 490 and 500 appeared to be equally powered on the snow, but I enjoyed the greater torque of the 500 better. We both agreed that both bikes revved about the same.
I decided to go with a Built Motors (formerly Thumper Racing) 550 big bore for the extra torque, and the ability to go back to the stock cylinder if needed.
I had also had my stock intake pack up with snow so I called AirForce and ordered a intake. The owner was very helpful and excited with my build.
Phase III is represented by the red line in the first dyno sheet.
This build consisted of:
Built Motors 550 kit with 14:1 piston
Air Force Intake
44mm throttle body
Stock 500 cam (tried the 450sx cam and it produced less hp)
Stock Head Pipe
RP Race Muffler
Vortex Ignition.
I rode this combo on the street for about a month and it was a hoot!
I noticed on the dyno printout...and could feel on the street that while I was producing quite a bit more power than the 500, that it nosed over pretty heavily on the top end. I decided that it was good enough and that I would ride it this way for my third season.
It was at this point that Brock suggested that I reach out to David Lloyd of LLoyd Performance and that his shop was about an hour north of Brock's shop.
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Phase IV
As I quickly learned talking to David...I had disparaged his shop on-line as I had seen peoples claims of 70hp plus builds coming from him. I did not know at the time that I initially spoke with him that this was the case...as I did not previously know him. But he sure knew who I was! All I can say about that conversation is that David is quite a man, and basically challenged me to bring my bike to him so that he could show me he and his families magic. He promised me that he could get my motor putting out over 70 hp, on his or any other dyno. I told him that I would be collaborating his dyno numbers with my friend Nels...and he said "Bring it!"
I loaded up my bike and assorted parts and drove the 12 hours to his shop in Nowheresville Idaho. He has assured me that all of the porting and mods could be done in a single day...but I was disbelieving. Boy was I wrong! After doing an initial dyno run on his dyno, my bike produced 64.8 hp on his dyno...which was only a little less than the 66.25 hp that it had registered on Nels dyno. I was initially suspecting that his dyno was going to read higher than Nels had.
Then things started happening so fast it was hard to comprehend... The Lloyd brothers and son Karson had my head off of my bike and disassembled on the bench in under 15 minutes...wow!
The whole build time from initial dyno run to back together was around 6.5 hours...and this included porting my Air-Force intake to match the 47mm RP Race Throttle body that I had brought, and porting matching the intake boot to the throttle body and head. He also ported my head.
Phase IV Build - Lloyd Performance
Teal Blue line on the first dyno sheet.
Built Motors 550 big bore kit with 14:1 piston
Fuel Pump modified to produce more pressure
47mm RP Race Throttle Body.
Air-Force intake
Intake, intake boot, and head ported by Lloyds performance
Lloyd Performance cam
RP race 450sx complete exhaust (apparently the head pipe on the 500 is too big)
Vortex ECU programed by 2-Wheel Dyno-Werks.
GET ECU programed by Lloyd Performance.
Both ECU's produced the same results
Both the dyno in Idaho and the one in Washington showed nearly identical results on the same fuel.
73.59 hp and 46.07 ft/lbs of torque on 92 pump gas.
75.5 hp and 46.82 ft/lbs of torque with a splash of MR12 in the tank.
Beyond Stunned! I was there, and have seen both dyno's produce nearly exactly the same results...and I am still in shock!
David has told me that with a 50mm Throttle Body, and a slightly more aggressive cam, that I should be able to make an additional 4+ hp....and I believe him! That will have to wait until next summer when the snow melts.
Thank you to David, David's brothers, Karson, and Nels for all the help on this combo!
If anyone wants to make some serious hp...give Lloyd Performance a call.
As I quickly learned talking to David...I had disparaged his shop on-line as I had seen peoples claims of 70hp plus builds coming from him. I did not know at the time that I initially spoke with him that this was the case...as I did not previously know him. But he sure knew who I was! All I can say about that conversation is that David is quite a man, and basically challenged me to bring my bike to him so that he could show me he and his families magic. He promised me that he could get my motor putting out over 70 hp, on his or any other dyno. I told him that I would be collaborating his dyno numbers with my friend Nels...and he said "Bring it!"
I loaded up my bike and assorted parts and drove the 12 hours to his shop in Nowheresville Idaho. He has assured me that all of the porting and mods could be done in a single day...but I was disbelieving. Boy was I wrong! After doing an initial dyno run on his dyno, my bike produced 64.8 hp on his dyno...which was only a little less than the 66.25 hp that it had registered on Nels dyno. I was initially suspecting that his dyno was going to read higher than Nels had.
Then things started happening so fast it was hard to comprehend... The Lloyd brothers and son Karson had my head off of my bike and disassembled on the bench in under 15 minutes...wow!
The whole build time from initial dyno run to back together was around 6.5 hours...and this included porting my Air-Force intake to match the 47mm RP Race Throttle body that I had brought, and porting matching the intake boot to the throttle body and head. He also ported my head.
Phase IV Build - Lloyd Performance
Teal Blue line on the first dyno sheet.
Built Motors 550 big bore kit with 14:1 piston
Fuel Pump modified to produce more pressure
47mm RP Race Throttle Body.
Air-Force intake
Intake, intake boot, and head ported by Lloyds performance
Lloyd Performance cam
RP race 450sx complete exhaust (apparently the head pipe on the 500 is too big)
Vortex ECU programed by 2-Wheel Dyno-Werks.
GET ECU programed by Lloyd Performance.
Both ECU's produced the same results
Both the dyno in Idaho and the one in Washington showed nearly identical results on the same fuel.
73.59 hp and 46.07 ft/lbs of torque on 92 pump gas.
75.5 hp and 46.82 ft/lbs of torque with a splash of MR12 in the tank.
Beyond Stunned! I was there, and have seen both dyno's produce nearly exactly the same results...and I am still in shock!
David has told me that with a 50mm Throttle Body, and a slightly more aggressive cam, that I should be able to make an additional 4+ hp....and I believe him! That will have to wait until next summer when the snow melts.
Thank you to David, David's brothers, Karson, and Nels for all the help on this combo!
If anyone wants to make some serious hp...give Lloyd Performance a call.
C
Lloyds Performance 2020 KTM 550 - 92 pump gas
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good write up, pump more air and make more hp.
D
73hp on pump, impressive. What does the A/F look like with that number and any idea what EGT's are?
any concerns about reliability?
Be sure to keep us updated on long term use with all these mods... man, it would be sweet to push that kind of power to the track.
any concerns about reliability?
Be sure to keep us updated on long term use with all these mods... man, it would be sweet to push that kind of power to the track.
Great write up, thanks for the effort. I can't find an address for Lloyd's Performance, my searching must suck, wondering how much more than 12 hours it'd be from here 
. That's sick though, also interested in reliability but it sounds like it's built well and will be.
. That's sick though, also interested in reliability but it sounds like it's built well and will be.
R
Where's Byeatts? He's usually all over anybody saying a 500 can make any real power! WAITING!!
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How long will the transmisssions hold up to this new power? I have heard they have had trouble holding up with the stock power
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The Lloyd's are running 83hp through one of these platforms (590 cc on straight MR12) and are doing quite well in the national Hill climb championships... With zero trans failures.
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Got a bunch of turbo 500s here in Sweden and apart from the clutch needing two bellevue springs to not slip I have not heard of any transmissionproblems with them.
Between 90-105 hp in them. @swedenturbo can share more light upon that I am sure, since he and his friends are the ones that build/design them and have the most experience with them.
Rob
Between 90-105 hp in them. @swedenturbo can share more light upon that I am sure, since he and his friends are the ones that build/design them and have the most experience with them.
Rob
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I know it's an old thread, maybe this info will help others out. I feel the foundation Chris laid here allowed me to jump straight into a known working combination of parts.
I honestly took David's advice from this two year old post and went with a more aggressive cam and larger throttle body. Just got back from Lloyd's performance yesterday, Karson, David and uncle Ben worked their magic on my 500.
Parts installed:
- Cylinder head porting done by Lloyd's Performance.
- Intake from Lloyd's Performance (no filter on dyno run)
- RP Exhaust
- RP 50mm throttle body
- DCR Cam (V4 Pro grind)
- Built Motors 550 kit.
Bike made 77hp on their dyno running 91 pump. I'll swap out the exhaust flange for the twisted development unit and run the bike again on a local dyno.
Overall I'm very excited this season.
D
Im still riding Chris's bike and it is a monster! I was just thinking the other day about getting it back to LLoyd's for a tune up.
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