lightweight battery

[Cinno]

Yeah, it's pretty hard to come up with two sleds to compare, let alone a good cross-section of riders. I'll agree with @turboless terry that a lot of riders couldn't tell, but maybe closer to 50-50 in a truly fair comparison. Minor differences between "identical" sleds, like more aggressive clutching or a louder can, would fool a lot of people in a back-to-back ride. I'm a little iffy on L-ion batteries as worth it. Cold starts are where I'd want e-start the most, and that's where L-ion could fall short unless you bring it inside. Discussions like this make me wonder if I'd lean more towards Doo if pull starting gets to be a hassle. As long as there's not too much pulling on a cold start (mine's a bear - - but I hear Doos are pretty easy), it seems SHOT gives you 90% of the advantage with only 20% more weight over pull start. If I needed e-start, and with an AGM battery weighing 12-14lbs but otherwise doing it's job better and cheaper than L-ion, I'd probably get the lightest AGM battery that'll work and call it a day.

I agree that most can't tell, can you tell the weight loss of a gal. of gas? I however had a Shoria lithium once that I bought to replace a bad lead acid type. Transferred it to my next three sleds. Started one sled at -15, a buddy had a lower capacity type that was way under rated and he simply had to press the start button a few times to heat up the battery. It always worked. One little know issue with most lithium types is they have individual cells that may need a special charger to maintain peak performance by balancing the cells to the correct voltage. My Shoria was that way, even though the sled charges it ride to ride I always used that special charger at the beginning of the season to properly balance the cells.

Cinno

 

[Dam Dave]

Shorai all day long, all the dirt bikes and sleds

 

[Sage Crusher]

What part number for the Shorai @Dam Dave -I have been using the LFX14L2-BS12 for it's size on my 19 Alphas- and it's always hit/miss if it's going to start the sled.
I chose it for the cca rating and size.
I have it mounted on top of the shield over my ECU and I use their charger also

 

[Cinno]

What part number for the Shorai @Dam Dave -I have been using the LFX14L2-BS12 for it's size on my 19 Alphas- and it's always hit/miss if it's going to start the sled.
I chose it for the cca rating and size.
I have it mounted on top of the shield over my ECU and I use their charger also

I used the LFX14A4-BS12 in my 2020 alpha 800 Mountain cat, always worked good even down -15 F per my previous post. I believe the only difference is the polarity of the post layout. Question for Sage, did you buy the Shorai specific charger for yours? I know it may make a difference in that it balances the cells for max capacity, however the key word is MAY not definitely.

Cinno

 

[Sage Crusher]

I used the LFX14A4-BS12 in my 2020 alpha 800 Mountain cat, always worked good even down -15 F per my previous post. I believe the only difference is the polarity of the post layout. Question for Sage, did you buy the Shorai specific charger for yours? I know it may make a difference in that it balances the cells for max capacity, however the key word is MAY not definitely.

Cinno

Yes I also purchased their charger. Could be the mounting location as mine gets a cold air from the right hood screen, since it's mounted on the the ECM shield.
They are pretty close in size and weight, with yours being a bit taller and wider, it would be close to the bottom of the hood.
I could not find the watts/Hr on mine where your states Amps/Hr. on the Shorai Web page.... Still cant get anyone from Shorai to even return a call

My buddy has one of those Earth batteries but it's mounted in the stock location under the rear of the seat- so I imagine it's a bigger battery- Starts every time.

Where did you locate yours?

 

[Cinno]

Yes I also purchased their charger. Could be the mounting location as mine gets a cold air from the right hood screen, since it's mounted on the the ECM shield.
They are pretty close in size and weight, with yours being a bit taller and wider, it would be close to the bottom of the hood.
I could not find the watts/Hr on mine where your states Amps/Hr. on the Shorai Web page.... Still cant get anyone from Shorai to even return a call

My buddy has one of those Earth batteries but it's mounted in the stock location under the rear of the seat- so I imagine it's a bigger battery- Starts every time.

Where did you locate yours?

Mine is located in the stock location under the seat at the very end. The stock battery at this location is bigger than the Shorai. Shorai provides spacers made of sheets of foam that you cut to fill the gaps. I just checked my records and I ordered LFX27A3-BS12, rated at 27 AH, 405 CCA, not the LFX14A4-BS12 stated in may original text, that battery was what my buddy bought for his 2015 T3 850 and rated at 14 AH, 210 CCA. Sorry for the bad info. He gets it to work but has to press the button multiple times separated by 30 sec or so to get his going. It works ok when the motor is warm. He built a frame between his right side foot well and his muffler as I recall. He selected the battery mostly on size not on amp ratings hence the poor initial start.

Cinno

 

[Sage Crusher]

Mine is located in the stock location under the seat at the very end. The stock battery at this location is bigger than the Shorai. Shorai provides spacers made of sheets of foam that you cut to fill the gaps. I just checked my records and I ordered LFX27A3-BS12, rated at 27 AH, 405 CCA, not the LFX14A4-BS12 stated in may original text, that battery was what my buddy bought for his 2015 T3 850 and rated at 14 AH, 210 CCA. Sorry for the bad info. He gets it to work but has to press the button multiple times separated by 30 sec or so to get his going. It works ok when the motor is warm. He built a frame between his right side foot well and his muffler as I recall. He selected the battery mostly on size not on amp ratings hence the poor initial start.

Cinno

Thanks for the clarification, and makes perfect sense now-Same issues I am having with the smaller- could possibly the CCA's/ but your amp rating is almost double..

 

[ratlover]

General question about these lightweight lithium batteries. How well do they or do they even charge in the cold? I had one in a street bike and when it was cold out(talking like 40f) sometimes you had to turn the key on to run the head lights a bit and or bump the starter, then wait, then try again and it would fire. I wouldn’t mind having to pull start first thing for the day. But I know lithiums don’t like to take a charge when below freezing. These batteries have built in heaters and or BMS built in? I could see getting enough heat if the battery is in the engine compartment once you get it fired, but isnt the catalyst under the seat? Lithium will(or should be limited to avoid damage) discharge at a much lower temp than they will charge.

Hopefully the 858 starts like my 800. 2 pulls or worse case 3 pulls regardless how long its been sitting or how cold. 1 pull if warm. If I had a Polaris id be more concerned about how it starts first thing cold. I get stuck alot though so I restart my sled alot so thinking I may go estart on next sled

 

[Cinno]

General question about these lightweight lithium batteries. How well do they or do they even charge in the cold? I had one in a street bike and when it was cold out(talking like 40f) sometimes you had to turn the key on to run the head lights a bit and or bump the starter, then wait, then try again and it would fire. I wouldn’t mind having to pull start first thing for the day. But I know lithiums don’t like to take a charge when below freezing. These batteries have built in heaters and or BMS built in? I could see getting enough heat if the battery is in the engine compartment once you get it fired, but isnt the catalyst under the seat? Lithium will(or should be limited to avoid damage) discharge at a much lower temp than they will charge.

Hopefully the 858 starts like my 800. 2 pulls or worse case 3 pulls regardless how long its been sitting or how cold. 1 pull if warm. If I had a Polaris id be more concerned about how it starts first thing cold. I get stuck alot though so I restart my sled alot so thinking I may go estart on next sled

Charging rates of lithium batteries is a concern, it will not charge as fast as lead acid. In theory damage can occur if charging is too high for below rated battery temperature. I had mine for two years with over 1200 miles or so. Just guessing here but I maybe started it a couple hundred times. I did notice over a week trip the starting cranking time well up a little, indicating maybe it wasn't getting totally topped off day to day. But overall it never let me down. I only balanced the cells once a year as I had a Shorai battery charger with special function to do that. I know it had a BMS. Maybe the question to ask the Forum is how many riders have used Lithium batteries and how many have suffered damage?

Cinno

 

[ratlover]

Guess if the batteries have a charger with bms probably the battery doesn't have a built in bms so the battery wont shut down to “protect itself”? And maybe a snowmobiles charging system doesn’t put out a ton of amps so maybe not a huge worry of smoking it charging while cold? Most of my lithium experience is with tools and the charger refusing to charge cold batteries and what I have read and watched learning about lithium batteries for off grid power banks. Theory is cool and all but if it works real world thats all that matters.

 

[line8]

I had an Earth X battery in my Cat. It was in the rear part of the seat so not warm. I never put it on a charger 1x in 3 years. Not even in the fall after summer. I never put the thing on a trickle charger. It started every single time I turned the key. I did, most the time, upon first start in the day, give it a quick key cycle without cranking to wake it. I may have helped it less than 5 times on a below zero morning with a pull start first thing on those mornings. Very good battery though quite expensive.


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