Klim New Vest Avy Pack
- Thread starter Norona
- Start date
Pumped that Klim introduced an avy vest. I've been talking with the design team for several years begging for this. Or at least an optional and much larger front armored panel for the Aspect 16L avy bag. I used to ride the BCA MTN Pro avy vest, but switched to the Klim Aspect 16L because I wanted to use the Alpride supercapacitor tech. My wife still wears a BCA Mtn Pro vest due to should injury that is aggrevated by backpack straps. I also much prefer vests because they combine 3 things into one: Armor, avy bag, and transceiver holder.
Last year, BCA introduced the Alpride supercapacitor system into a couple of their backpacks and so I'd reached out and requested they put that in their MTN Pro vest with a reply of "tune in next year". Well BCA now has a revamped MTN PRO avy vest with the Alpride system. Will be great to compare the Klim and the BCA avy vests back to back and decide which one I'll switch to this year. We'll also get one for my wife. So far, based in images on website, the Klim vest looks better. It does look like the BCA provides more front armor coverage (dips lower in the front). I mostly snowbike anymore, but it will be great to try on both and see coverage, fit, mobility, etc.
Thanks for posting initial look, Dave. Looking forward to the full review really opening it up. Only concern so far is Klim reducing the storage from the Klim Aspect 16L down to 14L. I only put the basics in my Aspect 16L, but it's already very tight so losing 2L will make it even tighter.
Last year, BCA introduced the Alpride supercapacitor system into a couple of their backpacks and so I'd reached out and requested they put that in their MTN Pro vest with a reply of "tune in next year". Well BCA now has a revamped MTN PRO avy vest with the Alpride system. Will be great to compare the Klim and the BCA avy vests back to back and decide which one I'll switch to this year. We'll also get one for my wife. So far, based in images on website, the Klim vest looks better. It does look like the BCA provides more front armor coverage (dips lower in the front). I mostly snowbike anymore, but it will be great to try on both and see coverage, fit, mobility, etc.
Thanks for posting initial look, Dave. Looking forward to the full review really opening it up. Only concern so far is Klim reducing the storage from the Klim Aspect 16L down to 14L. I only put the basics in my Aspect 16L, but it's already very tight so losing 2L will make it even tighter.
The two vests CLEARLY present alternative routes to the same solution.
We have a REAL CHOICE now between KLIM and BCA!!
Update: My dealer received there Atlas 14L backpacks and Atlas 14L Vests this week. I just went over to check out the vest and brought my Aspect 16L, along with all it's contents, as I was very skeptical that everything would fit in the Atlas 14L. I transferred every I had in my bulging Aspect 16L into the Atlas 14L vest it all fit! Shovel, probe, medical kit, fire starting kit, TP, tourniquet, extra pair of thick socks, extra balaclava, snowbike belt, and two pair of goggle lenses (not entire goggles) up in the goggle pouch. I bought the vest on the spot.
My wife and I both have had vests before (BCA Mtn Pro vests); her because of a bad shoulder so vest spreads the weight where a strap hurts her shoulder. Me because I liked having armor, avy pack and transceiver pouch all in one layer. I switched to the Klim Aspect 16L avy back because I wanted the supercapacitor tech rather than air cannister tech. Wife was waiting for Klim or BCA to do a Alpride e2 vest. This year they both have, which is great! By the way, the website images of the BCA vest on it's own make it look dumpy and oddly low (V shaped) in the front, but after looking at pics if it being worn and video of it being worn, that is not the case. It lower part of the front isn't deeply Vd like their website image makes it look. Just mentioning it. Still, the new BCA Alpride e2 Avy vest a very different design as it has many compartments, straps, vents, etc.
Back to the Atlas 14L vest. For drawbacks, I dislike how there is only one big compartment on the Atlas 14L compared to two large compartments and one medium compartment on the Aspect 16. Aspect has one larger compartment dedicated for your probe/shovel handle/shovel blade with a second large compartment for the AlpRide system and other storage. Plus, the Aspect has the medium sized exterior compartment for even more storage and for quick access compared to the larger compartments. Atlas has one large compartment for everything; not separation so when you open that compartment, everything is open to the elements or to falling out. But for me, still worth moving to Atlas 14L vest as I wanted to be back in a vest. I'll figure out a way to keep the shovel blade from rubbing on other items in the compartment (nicks on aluminum shovel blades will tear up anything that touches them as they rub throughout the day, so will need to do something to isolate it).
The new Alpride e2 system is much more compact than my Alpride e1 system in my Aspect so maybe is why the 14L is unexpectedly roomy. I don't know if Klim's liter-rating includes the Alpride system or not. Besides being more compact and lighter weight than the e1 system, the e2 system also has a nice digital readout screen and uses an easy to plug in USBC plug on the e2 end rather than the frustrating, directional, finicky micro USB plug.
Another thing that is great is the radio compartment in the Atlas 14L is it's own mini compartment accessed from the top of the bag. The Aspect had a pouch for the radio body buried deep in the back of the large compartment which was hard to dig out the radio if you needed to program in a channel that you didn't already have programmed. The body of the radio will be less insulated by the contents of your pack now that it's located near the very top of the pack, but might also transmit/receive a bit better being higher up and less surrounded by "stuff" (but probably a miniscule amount).
My wife and I both have had vests before (BCA Mtn Pro vests); her because of a bad shoulder so vest spreads the weight where a strap hurts her shoulder. Me because I liked having armor, avy pack and transceiver pouch all in one layer. I switched to the Klim Aspect 16L avy back because I wanted the supercapacitor tech rather than air cannister tech. Wife was waiting for Klim or BCA to do a Alpride e2 vest. This year they both have, which is great! By the way, the website images of the BCA vest on it's own make it look dumpy and oddly low (V shaped) in the front, but after looking at pics if it being worn and video of it being worn, that is not the case. It lower part of the front isn't deeply Vd like their website image makes it look. Just mentioning it. Still, the new BCA Alpride e2 Avy vest a very different design as it has many compartments, straps, vents, etc.
Back to the Atlas 14L vest. For drawbacks, I dislike how there is only one big compartment on the Atlas 14L compared to two large compartments and one medium compartment on the Aspect 16. Aspect has one larger compartment dedicated for your probe/shovel handle/shovel blade with a second large compartment for the AlpRide system and other storage. Plus, the Aspect has the medium sized exterior compartment for even more storage and for quick access compared to the larger compartments. Atlas has one large compartment for everything; not separation so when you open that compartment, everything is open to the elements or to falling out. But for me, still worth moving to Atlas 14L vest as I wanted to be back in a vest. I'll figure out a way to keep the shovel blade from rubbing on other items in the compartment (nicks on aluminum shovel blades will tear up anything that touches them as they rub throughout the day, so will need to do something to isolate it).
The new Alpride e2 system is much more compact than my Alpride e1 system in my Aspect so maybe is why the 14L is unexpectedly roomy. I don't know if Klim's liter-rating includes the Alpride system or not. Besides being more compact and lighter weight than the e1 system, the e2 system also has a nice digital readout screen and uses an easy to plug in USBC plug on the e2 end rather than the frustrating, directional, finicky micro USB plug.
Another thing that is great is the radio compartment in the Atlas 14L is it's own mini compartment accessed from the top of the bag. The Aspect had a pouch for the radio body buried deep in the back of the large compartment which was hard to dig out the radio if you needed to program in a channel that you didn't already have programmed. The body of the radio will be less insulated by the contents of your pack now that it's located near the very top of the pack, but might also transmit/receive a bit better being higher up and less surrounded by "stuff" (but probably a miniscule amount).
Charged up the vest and set it off this weekend. Nothing too exciting or different there except it worked great as expected. The bag releases pressure from (though doesn't suck air out of) the air bag after around 3 minutes (hence creases in the images below of bag deployed).
Everything about the Alpride e2 I like better than the e1. The light blinking indicators are different than Alprider e1. The low charge lights (red and orange) blink much faster (4x a second rather than 2x per second). The green, fully charged light blinks slower (once very 10 seconds rather than once every 3 seconds). As mentioned previously, e2 uses USB C plug rather than microUSB plug. Seems like a small thing but microUSB plugs are directional and finicky; USBC plugs in quick and easy. The zipper access into the e1 is much easier than the e2. And, as advertised, the e2 is smaller and lighter and bag is slightly larger at 165L rather than 150L of the e1. The "Front" and "Back" labels on the airbag and arrow pointing to "head" are also nice. If a digger gets down to part of the airbag, these labels help direct them to dig towards, and clear snow away from, your head. rather than leaving them to guess which direction to keep digging. The access to the valve to manually release the air is easier on the finger and there is even a little external zipper (about 3 inches long) that you can unzip and access the air release valve with the main compartment still zipped closed. Nice touch.
I do still wish there were two large compartments, like the Aspect 16L, to isolate the shovel/probe from the rest of the gear in your pack. When you open the big compartment to retrieve shovel and probe, there is a small risk of things falling out. That and it just seems better organized to have dedicated shovel/probe compartment rather than everything mixed together in one compartment so you are digging around everything every time you need something, charge or install/remove batteries, etc. I may add the Remote Probe Deployment (RPD) cylinder. It's not needed to fit everything, but would be one less thing squished inside the main compartment and I don't like the way the shovel blade rubs against my carbon probe (there is no pouch for the shovel blade and the probe and shovel sleeves don't extend low enough to protect those from the shovel blade).
I moved the radio from Aspect to Atlas. As mentioned, the new small compartment is at the top of the pack accessed from a small zipper on the top of the pack. Easy to access to change the channels if need be and easy access to charge radio compared to radio body being buried in the main compartment like in the Aspect 16L.
I fit everything in the Atlas 14L vest that I had in the Aspect 16L (w Alprider e1).
Shown here:
Shovel (handle and blade separated), probe, medical kit, scissors, fire starting kit, TP, tourniquet, extra pair of thick socks, backup balaclava, snowbike belt, BCA radio, and two pair of goggle lenses (not entire goggles) up in the goggle pouch.
I'll add some pics of inside the back and radio pocket later today.
This is after the 3 minute mark where the pressure releases. The creases are not there and airbag is taught when it first inflates.
Everything about the Alpride e2 I like better than the e1. The light blinking indicators are different than Alprider e1. The low charge lights (red and orange) blink much faster (4x a second rather than 2x per second). The green, fully charged light blinks slower (once very 10 seconds rather than once every 3 seconds). As mentioned previously, e2 uses USB C plug rather than microUSB plug. Seems like a small thing but microUSB plugs are directional and finicky; USBC plugs in quick and easy. The zipper access into the e1 is much easier than the e2. And, as advertised, the e2 is smaller and lighter and bag is slightly larger at 165L rather than 150L of the e1. The "Front" and "Back" labels on the airbag and arrow pointing to "head" are also nice. If a digger gets down to part of the airbag, these labels help direct them to dig towards, and clear snow away from, your head. rather than leaving them to guess which direction to keep digging. The access to the valve to manually release the air is easier on the finger and there is even a little external zipper (about 3 inches long) that you can unzip and access the air release valve with the main compartment still zipped closed. Nice touch.
I do still wish there were two large compartments, like the Aspect 16L, to isolate the shovel/probe from the rest of the gear in your pack. When you open the big compartment to retrieve shovel and probe, there is a small risk of things falling out. That and it just seems better organized to have dedicated shovel/probe compartment rather than everything mixed together in one compartment so you are digging around everything every time you need something, charge or install/remove batteries, etc. I may add the Remote Probe Deployment (RPD) cylinder. It's not needed to fit everything, but would be one less thing squished inside the main compartment and I don't like the way the shovel blade rubs against my carbon probe (there is no pouch for the shovel blade and the probe and shovel sleeves don't extend low enough to protect those from the shovel blade).
I moved the radio from Aspect to Atlas. As mentioned, the new small compartment is at the top of the pack accessed from a small zipper on the top of the pack. Easy to access to change the channels if need be and easy access to charge radio compared to radio body being buried in the main compartment like in the Aspect 16L.
I fit everything in the Atlas 14L vest that I had in the Aspect 16L (w Alprider e1).
Shown here:
Shovel (handle and blade separated), probe, medical kit, scissors, fire starting kit, TP, tourniquet, extra pair of thick socks, backup balaclava, snowbike belt, BCA radio, and two pair of goggle lenses (not entire goggles) up in the goggle pouch.
I'll add some pics of inside the back and radio pocket later today.
This is after the 3 minute mark where the pressure releases. The creases are not there and airbag is taught when it first inflates.
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First test deploy. I do two test deploys on new avy bags. The first right away to ensure no defects. The second test deploy is after I fold and zip the bag, then route the pull cord where I want it, route the radio cord, fill the bag, etc. just to be sure I didn't route anything in a way that interferes with deployment.
First layer of stuff since there is only one compartment on the Atlas 14L bags.
Second layer of stuff on top of that. I keep the snowbike belt in a bag to protect it a bit, but removed the bag to better show everything stowed. I will need to figure out a way to protect carbon probe and bag from the rough shovel blade rubbing against them. May even sand down the leading edge of the shovel blade. I carry a second shovel on my tunnel know for day-to-day use so dedicated avy shovel should stay smooth if I clean up the edge from dings.
Radio pouch accessed externally from top of bag.
Small zipper to access the deflator valve without opening the entire bag. The material on the left is the material, like in previous versions, that you can see the blinking LED light to show charge status even with the bag closed up.
First layer of stuff since there is only one compartment on the Atlas 14L bags.
Second layer of stuff on top of that. I keep the snowbike belt in a bag to protect it a bit, but removed the bag to better show everything stowed. I will need to figure out a way to protect carbon probe and bag from the rough shovel blade rubbing against them. May even sand down the leading edge of the shovel blade. I carry a second shovel on my tunnel know for day-to-day use so dedicated avy shovel should stay smooth if I clean up the edge from dings.
Radio pouch accessed externally from top of bag.
Small zipper to access the deflator valve without opening the entire bag. The material on the left is the material, like in previous versions, that you can see the blinking LED light to show charge status even with the bag closed up.
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Norona is a paid Ski-doo guy, so I suppose he just puts everything in his Ski-Doo forum!!
@96-ramair Hard to compare on the Klim because they don't have a canister vest and Alpride vest both. and vest inherently weight more than backpacks.
They do have weights listed on Klim's website for the Atlas 14L backpack, Atlas 14L vest and Aspect 16L backpack; all three use Alpride E2 system. However, Klim's website is confusing because they list "total bag weight" but don't specify if that includes the Alpride system. The listed weights for the vest are lighter than the backpacks, which seems odd. Since the two Atlas compartment construction are the same, one would think the vest would be heavier; not lighter. So maybe backpacks are listed with the Alpride weight included and vest does not have Alpride weight included. If that is the case, the vest bag weighs just over 1lb more than the backpack bag.
Atlas 14L vest - 4.5lb bag (size L). e2 1140 grams (2.51 lbs) = 7.01 lbs added together.
Atlas 14L backpack - 5.97lb bag . e2 1140 grams (2.51 lbs) = so total weight is either 5.97 lbs if website weight does include e2 or 8.48 lbs if website bag weight doesn't include e2.
Aspect e2 16L backpack - 6.59lb bag. e2 1140 grams (2.51 lbs) = so total weight is either 6.59 lbs if website weight does include e2 or 9.1 lbs if website bag weight doesn't include e2.
Aspect e1 16L backpack - 6.59lb bag. e1 1280 grams (2.82 lbs) = (e1 bag is .31 lb heaver than same bag equipped with an e2)
Klim has never been very consistent or clear on their website with weights. Or have typos or things calculated different from product to product. They used to never even list weights and helmets so you'd have to email them to compare weights of carbon vs non-carbon of the same helmet model or from helmet model to model.
For these packs, it seems some weights include Alpride and some don't. In my opinion, they should include pack weight without Alpride, weight of Alpride, and pack weight with Alpride. Then everything would be clear. And, they should use a consistent measurement system (lbs preferred) rather than the mix of pounds and grams etc.
Sidebar:
More comparison of e1 and e2 systems.
https://www.alpride.com/system-e1
https://www.alpride.com/system-e2
As for the BCA setup, using weights from their website and comparing the BCA MTN PRO float vest with full canister (at 8.1lbs) to the new BCA E2 MTN Pro vest (at 8.2 lbs), the overall weight is about the same. .1lb is only 1.6 ounces. But the old and new BCA vest are two different vest designs. Not sure if you compared weight feel while wearing them or just holding them, but .1 lb seems pretty close.
On the Alpride website, when they came out with the e1, they boasted it was only 150g heavier than their 2.0 airbag canister system. So that is .33lb. And the new e2 system is 140 grams lighter than the e1. So by that calculation, the e2 system is only about 10 grams (.022 lb or .35 ounce) heavier than their old cannister system. So anymore, the design and weight of bag/vest itself seems like it would be more of a factor in weight difference than the bag inflation system.
I didn't weigh my new Klim avy vest empty, but with all my stuff in it (everything shown above), it weighs in at 13.1 lbs. So any slight difference between canister vs electronic is not noticed in the overall big picture.
I personally much prefer the supercapacitor tech. over canisters I don't worry about testing one or more times a year or accidental deployments (canisters can't be refilled in the field where AA batteries will recharge supercapacitor in the field in 40 minutes),. No driving or mailing canisters to refill, replacing seals, removing and storing canister for off season. Also better than lithium battery fan systems (lighter and no battery to replace down the road. Supercapacitor will not wear out).
I don't take avy packs on airlines, so the restrictions on full canisters doesn't impact me, but might for some.
They do have weights listed on Klim's website for the Atlas 14L backpack, Atlas 14L vest and Aspect 16L backpack; all three use Alpride E2 system. However, Klim's website is confusing because they list "total bag weight" but don't specify if that includes the Alpride system. The listed weights for the vest are lighter than the backpacks, which seems odd. Since the two Atlas compartment construction are the same, one would think the vest would be heavier; not lighter. So maybe backpacks are listed with the Alpride weight included and vest does not have Alpride weight included. If that is the case, the vest bag weighs just over 1lb more than the backpack bag.
Atlas 14L vest - 4.5lb bag (size L). e2 1140 grams (2.51 lbs) = 7.01 lbs added together.
Atlas 14L backpack - 5.97lb bag . e2 1140 grams (2.51 lbs) = so total weight is either 5.97 lbs if website weight does include e2 or 8.48 lbs if website bag weight doesn't include e2.
Aspect e2 16L backpack - 6.59lb bag. e2 1140 grams (2.51 lbs) = so total weight is either 6.59 lbs if website weight does include e2 or 9.1 lbs if website bag weight doesn't include e2.
Aspect e1 16L backpack - 6.59lb bag. e1 1280 grams (2.82 lbs) = (e1 bag is .31 lb heaver than same bag equipped with an e2)
Klim has never been very consistent or clear on their website with weights. Or have typos or things calculated different from product to product. They used to never even list weights and helmets so you'd have to email them to compare weights of carbon vs non-carbon of the same helmet model or from helmet model to model.
For these packs, it seems some weights include Alpride and some don't. In my opinion, they should include pack weight without Alpride, weight of Alpride, and pack weight with Alpride. Then everything would be clear. And, they should use a consistent measurement system (lbs preferred) rather than the mix of pounds and grams etc.
Sidebar:
More comparison of e1 and e2 systems.
https://www.alpride.com/system-e1
https://www.alpride.com/system-e2
As for the BCA setup, using weights from their website and comparing the BCA MTN PRO float vest with full canister (at 8.1lbs) to the new BCA E2 MTN Pro vest (at 8.2 lbs), the overall weight is about the same. .1lb is only 1.6 ounces. But the old and new BCA vest are two different vest designs. Not sure if you compared weight feel while wearing them or just holding them, but .1 lb seems pretty close.
On the Alpride website, when they came out with the e1, they boasted it was only 150g heavier than their 2.0 airbag canister system. So that is .33lb. And the new e2 system is 140 grams lighter than the e1. So by that calculation, the e2 system is only about 10 grams (.022 lb or .35 ounce) heavier than their old cannister system. So anymore, the design and weight of bag/vest itself seems like it would be more of a factor in weight difference than the bag inflation system.
I didn't weigh my new Klim avy vest empty, but with all my stuff in it (everything shown above), it weighs in at 13.1 lbs. So any slight difference between canister vs electronic is not noticed in the overall big picture.
I personally much prefer the supercapacitor tech. over canisters I don't worry about testing one or more times a year or accidental deployments (canisters can't be refilled in the field where AA batteries will recharge supercapacitor in the field in 40 minutes),. No driving or mailing canisters to refill, replacing seals, removing and storing canister for off season. Also better than lithium battery fan systems (lighter and no battery to replace down the road. Supercapacitor will not wear out).
I don't take avy packs on airlines, so the restrictions on full canisters doesn't impact me, but might for some.
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Thanks for the video, Dave. Video just shows everything so much better than still photos.
Will mention that you didn't show the zippered, radio-body storage compartment at the top of the pack.
I'll also noted that you say, in this and your previous videos from previous years, that the Alpride system uses Capacitors. They use Supercapacitors (also called Ultracapacitors). Capacitor is not shorthand for Supercapacitor because Capacitors and Supercapacitors are very different. Recommend that you change over to using the correct term which is Supercapacitor which is also what Alpride and Klim both use in their literature, tags and on their website. ...Besides, you say "super" in this video a couple dozen times (except in from of the word "capacitor") so should be an easy transition for you. Ha. (I know I can rib you because you can take it).
Thanks again for the video.
Will mention that you didn't show the zippered, radio-body storage compartment at the top of the pack.
I'll also noted that you say, in this and your previous videos from previous years, that the Alpride system uses Capacitors. They use Supercapacitors (also called Ultracapacitors). Capacitor is not shorthand for Supercapacitor because Capacitors and Supercapacitors are very different. Recommend that you change over to using the correct term which is Supercapacitor which is also what Alpride and Klim both use in their literature, tags and on their website. ...Besides, you say "super" in this video a couple dozen times (except in from of the word "capacitor") so should be an easy transition for you. Ha. (I know I can rib you because you can take it).
Thanks again for the video.
That was a SUPER comment!
Looking to upgrade to this system. Can anyone offer any insight on sizing? I wear a medium short Ripsa and it fits will, although just a tad snug in the chest. I can still get a puffer vest in there without too much trouble for the cold days. I'm reluctant to order this bag in medium though and I don't have a dealer near by with one in stock. For reference I'm 5'9, an athletic 195, and wear a 44R jacket.
EDIT: Follow this thread link for sizing information. Looks like I'll be going with the smaller of the two options.
www.snowest.com
EDIT: Follow this thread link for sizing information. Looks like I'll be going with the smaller of the two options.
Klim ATLAS 14 Vest black Friday sales where
Anyone know of deals for the new klim Atlas Vest? I see 15-20% at some dealers? Anything beyond this?
www.snowest.com
