Climate change

[Big10inch]

Mankind has been on the earth for an incredibly miniscule amount of time, cosmically or even geologically speaking. And fossil fuels have been used for a miniscule fraction of the time that Mankind has been around. I'm not saying I buy what the scientists are feeding us. Both sides serve out heaping piles o' propaganda. But if smoking is bad for you personally (and if you doubt this, you really should watch someone smoke their first cigarette), don't you think it might have a little bit of an effect on the world around you?

Nature is very adept at adapting. I think it is absurd to think we have the power to upset something we are very very new to, and a very very small part of. I really think it is the human desire to be so important and powerful that drives the idea that we have any say in how it is going to go.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

I GM in the early 90's created a prototype car that got 100 mpg. Not a hybrid, not an electric. Just a good-old combustion engine. I read about it in Popular science as a teenager. So... What happened to it? Pretty sure Big Oil squashed it. Pretty sure Big Oil was behind Trump squashing Obama's standards he put up too. I'm not really all that in favor of the government saying "you must get your fleet to such & such MPG," but what does a little incentive hurt? .

-These stories of 100mpg cars being surpressed by big oil just arent true. Think of how many aftermarket car performance companies are out there globally, if 100mpg were possible they would have found out how and sold the hell out of them.
-The obama vehicle standards were unattainable and unsafe. Automakers had already started working towards these standard before Trump(thankfully) put a stop to them, the only way they they could get the mileage was buy cutting weight everywhere from the engine to the frame and body, litterally a tin can and they were using more expensive alloys which drives up the cost of these tin cans making them unaffordable to most causing them to keep theyre cars wih 300k+ miles, tell me thats safe driving down the highway next to you.
Same goes with obamas clean power plan on coal plants that set unrealistic standards that werent possible because the technology doesnt exist so the only option would be to shutdown........damn obama kinda sounds like a chicago thug, oh wait he is! :eyebrows:

 

[turboless terry]

Science and news go hand in hand. It used to be, growing up, you could believe both. Now, not so much. The idea of being sceptical has gone out the window. The idea of constantly trying to disprove something in order to prove it is gone. Now you're just a scumbag if you don't believe what they say. Big money and agendas have corrupted everything. That is one of the big differences between right and left. It doesn't bother me if you buy into global warming and climate change. I might think your gullible. If I don't buy into what the left thinks, I am the scum of the earth, racist retard or a million other things. Quite a difference in people.
The world is constantly changing. Mother nature has a way of taking care of itself. Whether we can do something about it is unforseen. You don't know and I don't either. Anyone that says they know are corrupted by big money and agendas.

 

[Jaynelson]

Nature is very adept at adapting. I think it is absurd to think we have the power to upset something we are very very new to, and a very very small part of. I really think it is the human desire to be so important and powerful that drives the idea that we have any say in how it is going to go.

The planet as a whole will be fine, and is going to be here for a long time. It’s more of an “us” problem. Other species have come and gone countless times over, and that human arrogance you speak of is exactly what makes us feel above that.

I guess I need to clarify the forest fire example from earlier. Point wasn’t that I necessarily think climate change is causing more forest fires. Point was IF I think that’s the case....that is no different from all the people giving the “see it snowed in October...climate change is not an issue” updates. Or the “farmer Johnny said back in the 20’s they didn’t even have drinking water for 9 years” blurbs. Both mean nothing on their own....just opinions.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

-These stories of 100mpg cars being surpressed by big oil just arent true. Think of how many aftermarket car performance companies are out there globally, if 100mpg were possible they would have found out how and sold the hell out of them.
-The obama vehicle standards were unattainable and unsafe. Automakers had already started working towards these standard before Trump(thankfully) put a stop to them, the only way they they could get the mileage was buy cutting weight everywhere from the engine to the frame and body, litterally a tin can and they were using more expensive alloys which drives up the cost of these tin cans making them unaffordable to most causing them to keep theyre cars wih 300k+ miles, tell me thats safe driving down the highway next to you.
Same goes with obamas clean power plan on coal plants that set unrealistic standards that werent possible because the technology doesnt exist so the only option would be to shutdown........damn obama kinda sounds like a chicago thug, oh wait he is!

So... says who? Trump? Savage? Right wing pundits?
And aftermarket perfomance companies have from what I've seen been a lot more concerned about horse power than MPG. I'm not saying Obama's solution was a good one. But throwing out any standards plays back into Big Oil. If you take a look at their lobbying budgets alone, you'd see this is not just a "Trump having your back" thing.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

Science and news go hand in hand. It used to be, growing up, you could believe both. Now, not so much. The idea of being sceptical has gone out the window. The idea of constantly trying to disprove something in order to prove it is gone. Now you're just a scumbag if you don't believe what they say. Big money and agendas have corrupted everything. That is one of the big differences between right and left. It doesn't bother me if you buy into global warming and climate change. I might think your gullible. If I don't buy into what the left thinks, I am the scum of the earth, racist retard or a million other things. Quite a difference in people.
The world is constantly changing. Mother nature has a way of taking care of itself. Whether we can do something about it is unforseen. You don't know and I don't either. Anyone that says they know are corrupted by big money and agendas.

Amen, brother. Be it Climate, medicine (just try suggesting in mixed company that vaccines might not be what they're cracked up to be), any kind of conspiracy theory, etc., The media mocks anything they judge to be not buying the party line, and that trickles all the way to family dinners. And now its up to media platforms to determine if something is hate speech or innacurate "news". Maybe if we were told what to think a little less & taught how to think a little more we could figure out the difference ourselves. Pick up a freakin' book instead of the NY times. If folks spent a little more time reading worthwhile literature instead of 30 second soundbites, they might be able to tell the difference between truth & garbage for themselves.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

I agree that it's quite probable our activities affect climate change, but I doubt that this effect is measurable.
Silly to argue, as it cannot be proven or disproven.

Kind of like the existence of God, or the guilt or innocence of Brett Kavanaugh.

 

[snowdog484]

Saw on the news tonite that the record high for October 30 was 83 degrees for the twin cities set back in 1950. Todays high was 53 degrees. Seems like a lot of record highs and lows were set back in the day. The Liberal press pushing this Global warming......wait, that doesn't work with the leftist agenda so well anymore! Lets call it climate change.....yeah, much better! Its a joke. Like someone said its all driven by money. Like most things.

 

[LoudHandle]

Exactly; just an attempt by the dems to legitimize more of our tax dollars going to more needless government programs and funding useless / needless studies / research. And because they couldn’t prove anything they chose to falsify the data in an attempt to not look stupid. Epic Failure! Now they have degraded their credability so much that they will only be able to work for the g-men who are so used to being lied to that it doesn’t matter.

 

[Big10inch]

So... says who? Trump? Savage? Right wing pundits?
And aftermarket perfomance companies have from what I've seen been a lot more concerned about horse power than MPG. I'm not saying Obama's solution was a good one. But throwing out any standards plays back into Big Oil. If you take a look at their lobbying budgets alone, you'd see this is not just a "Trump having your back" thing.

I think throwing out Obamas ridiculous standards was a gift to consumers more than anything. Those standards would have further raised the price of new vehicles. Big Oil would still have plenty of market but you and I would be saddled with more expensive complex technology we really didn't need forced on us for our own benefit??? No thanks Obama.


What people want in this country is clearly not small efficient cars. The market for those is small. Ford is dropping most of it cars in favor of SUV and truck production because that is what people want and buy.


Rules from the almighty big brother are never in your best interest. Freedom to choose is what made this country great, not overbearing regulations for your own good.

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

I think throwing out Obamas ridiculous standards was a gift to consumers more than anything. Those standards would have further raised the price of new vehicles. Big Oil would still have plenty of market but you and I would be saddled with more expensive complex technology we really didn't need forced on us for our own benefit??? No thanks Obama.


What people want in this country is clearly not small efficient cars. The market for those is small. Ford is dropping most of it cars in favor of SUV and truck production because that is what people want and buy.


Rules from the almighty big brother are never in your best interest. Freedom to choose is what made this country great, not overbearing regulations for your own good.

I understand what your saying & agree with it to a degree. At the same time, I think auto makers are incredibly lazy when it comes to MPG. I would rather have better MPG in whatever vehicle I'm in, be it a big truck or a little compact car. I find it ridiculous that the best gas mileage of any car I've ever had was a 10 year old VW jetta I got right out of High school. I got consistently 35-45 MPG. A brand new VW Jetta now gets 30-38. That's not progress & its not good for consumers. And the $ you pay for one has gone up substantially. And crediting Trump with getting your vehicles for cheaper is absurd as well. The steel tarrifs he's put in place are going to drive up the cost of vehicles at least as much as would be added by increasing MPG.

 

[Big10inch]

I understand what your saying & agree with it to a degree. At the same time, I think auto makers are incredibly lazy when it comes to MPG. I would rather have better MPG in whatever vehicle I'm in, be it a big truck or a little compact car. I find it ridiculous that the best gas mileage of any car I've ever had was a 10 year old VW jetta I got right out of High school. I got consistently 35-45 MPG. A brand new VW Jetta now gets 30-38. That's not progress & its not good for consumers. And the $ you pay for one has gone up substantially. And crediting Trump with getting your vehicles for cheaper is absurd as well. The steel tarrifs he's put in place are going to drive up the cost of vehicles at least as much as would be added by increasing MPG.

The reason you have not seen mpg increases is also because of the government... They have been increasing the amount of safety equipment required in vehicles for decades. This adds weight, weight kills economy.


One example is diesels. The reason they do not make the same or better mpg today than pre 2007 is because of the epa. Those clowns decided diesels should not smoke anymore. In creating the emissions control systems to eliminate the smoke they increased fuel consumption, weight due to complex systems needed to control soot and complexity that has also killed diesels long held lifespan advantage over gas powered vehicles.


In the same way we have given up reliability in sleds due to the epa mandating stupid restrictions on manufacturers. They will tell you these were improvements and the improvements are currently saving the world but anybody with a functional brain knows this is a lie. Once again, "we the people" pay the price in so many ways for the stupidity of our government officials.


In the case of VW, the government sued them and won. VW was just trying to give you power, economy and longevity... To do it they had to break the rules, and they were caught. People jumped on the bandwagon under the impression that what VW did was going to pollute the world, another stupid big government lie...

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

So... says who? Trump? Savage? Right wing pundits?
And aftermarket perfomance companies have from what I've seen been a lot more concerned about horse power than MPG. I'm not saying Obama's solution was a good one. But throwing out any standards plays back into Big Oil. If you take a look at their lobbying budgets alone, you'd see this is not just a "Trump having your back" thing.

The point is with all the global auto manufacturers competing for your business if one could get this imaginary 100 mpg they would and big oil couldnt do anything about it because that auto company would corner the auto market out selling all others.
Guessing its not your relm but most aftermarket “performance” companies do everything to show/prove they can make a vehicle run better than stock this includes fuel mileage.
And emissions stanards, i agree with big10s post.
So what will save the planet from destruction, emissions or fuel economy?
Robbing Peter to pay Paul really.....

 

[Mafesto]

Not to mention, if we could magically double the mpg on all vehicles and as a result used half the fuel we now do, we all know fuel prices would adjust accordingly and we would still be spending similar amounts on fuel as we now do.

 

[turboless terry]

^ exactly!!!

 

[Jean-Luc Picard]

The reason you have not seen mpg increases is also because of the government... They have been increasing the amount of safety equipment required in vehicles for decades. This adds weight, weight kills economy.

One example is diesels. The reason they do not make the same or better mpg today than pre 2007 is because of the epa. Those clowns decided diesels should not smoke anymore. In creating the emissions control systems to eliminate the smoke they increased fuel consumption, weight due to complex systems needed to control soot and complexity that has also killed diesels long held lifespan advantage over gas powered vehicles.

In the same way we have given up reliability in sleds due to the epa mandating stupid restrictions on manufacturers. They will tell you these were improvements and the improvements are currently saving the world but anybody with a functional brain knows this is a lie. Once again, "we the people" pay the price in so many ways for the stupidity of our government officials.

In the case of VW, the government sued them and won. VW was just trying to give you power, economy and longevity... To do it they had to break the rules, and they were caught. People jumped on the bandwagon under the impression that what VW did was going to pollute the world, another stupid big government lie...

Fair enough. The government does way to much in the guise of "for our own good."

 

[Big10inch]

Fair enough. The government does way to much in the guise of "for our own good."

I think both sides are guilty of legislating stupidity. The republicans try to legislate morality, which has never worked. The dems vilify them for it and then go ahead on spending us to death social welfare that fails to raise people up as it should making them dependents. Both are always trying country wide solutions to problems when they should butt out and let the state and local levels make the rules that work for the locality.


It is a HUGE mess, I think we all agree on that. Looking to the government to solve problems has never worked. Follow the money to the real benefactor. It is never the intended recipient. Today we are again on the brink of voting ourselves into socialism which doesn't work based on all the giveaways fueled by the class warfare the dems push so hard.


I think letting Trump run it more like the business it is, happens to be our best hope. Fixating on the fact that he is crass and blunt means you are not paying attention to the results he is getting. It will take a real A$$, like Trump, to straighten out decades of status quo and abolish political correctness, which has utterly destroyed what made this country great.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

Really????
Supreme Court won't block children's climate change lawsuit:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/02/politics/climate-change-children-trial-supreme-court/index.html

 

[turboless terry]

Climate change is a hoax brought on by people in the Carter era to push nuclear energy and then spiraled out of control because the greenies didn't want nuclear power. It escalated from there and compounded by FDR governmentlizing science which leaves us with the biased science we have today. Tell them what they want to hear and you get more money. They use models that they plug high temperatures in to get what they want you to believe. They also report over and over on hurricanes and devastation to make people believe it is worse than ever. Forgetting the simple fact there is more so called news and more stuff to be devastated. Makes it easy to sell their agenda. They use skewed data that picks the years they want you to hear and leaves out the ones they don't. They also don't mention positive effects like a greener planet due to plants thriving on co2. Everything is negative, negative, negative to push the agenda they want. The planet has warmed ever so slightly and could possibly be caused by the heat coming off everyone's biased agenda such as the Paris climate accord. A deal that let China and India have an increase in co2 while we have more job killing regulations and a decrease. There was also no enforcement. Kerry said we would shame them. What a joke. Also. We aren't in it and have lower levels than anyone. Goes right along with NATO. We pay 2/3 of the budget. I do believe I would pull out of that and put the money on our budget deficit.
I still can't believe how many people can't see the trees through the forest.

 

[Raff_9001M]

Massive wildfires from climate change? (maybe). Wildland fire fighting has become a HUGE business, billions of dollars are spent to control these fires.I have watched while some of these fires have been proliferated by the ones fighting it to make it a big deal- the bigger the fire the more money comes in.And then all the silly reasons or no reason at all as to what starts most of them, again no fire,no business.

Yeah. Just more fake news