Anyone deleted T-motion by replacing with C-motion rear arm?

Nov 26, 2013
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I put one in my 18, works really well and had no complaints, everything bolted up like factory no issues whatsoever, works so well I'm gonna pull it out and put it in my 22 turbo for next season. Sorry for the crap picture I'm working away from home and this is the best I have.
395cc09ce9a078d54e7069b8a59e2e12.jpg


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Feb 7, 2009
1,135
590
113
35
Wabush, Labrador
I put one in my 18, works really well and had no complaints, everything bolted up like factory no issues whatsoever, works so well I'm gonna pull it out and put it in my 22 turbo for next season. Sorry for the crap picture I'm working away from home and this is the best I have.
395cc09ce9a078d54e7069b8a59e2e12.jpg


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Nice sled!! did she start out as a 146? or did you chop the tunnel?
 
Nov 26, 2013
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Nice sled!! did she start out as a 146? or did you chop the tunnel?
She started out as a 146 then I threw a 163 track, drivers and rails out of an XM into it, surprisingly had very little cooling issues all season. Wasn't a fan of the track compared to the stock 3.5 pitch tho. I'm excited to put all the suspension upgrades into a 22 turbo 154 and see how she works.

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Feb 7, 2009
1,135
590
113
35
Wabush, Labrador
She started out as a 146 then I threw a 163 track, drivers and rails out of an XM into it, surprisingly had very little cooling issues all season. Wasn't a fan of the track compared to the stock 3.5 pitch tho. I'm excited to put all the suspension upgrades into a 22 turbo 154 and see how she works.

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the 146 has a 2.86 pitch. couldn't you have just used that for the 163 track?

That being said. my 154 has a 2.86 track and compared to the 3.5 pitch, there is a huge difference. especially when climbing, the 3.5 pitch doesn't spin out nearly as much, it just grips in and goes.
 
Nov 26, 2013
11
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the 146 has a 2.86 pitch. couldn't you have just used that for the 163 track?

That being said. my 154 has a 2.86 track and compared to the 3.5 pitch, there is a huge difference. especially when climbing, the 3.5 pitch doesn't spin out nearly as much, it just grips in and goes.
Its a 3 inch track so I needed a new set of drivers and yea I found it just spun most of the time as well

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NHRoadking

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Yesterday had the 2020 C-motion arm installed on my 2020 Freeride to delete T-motion.

Parts cost $300. Shop labor was 1.5 hours to install.
Bolted right in. No issues and same geometry.

Didn't trust using the lockout washers.


Just tipping the sled on the trailer floor I can tell it's harder to pull over - not "oh my god" harder, but harder. Before I did the swap the sled was wobbly when flat when I moved it side to side. It's not wobbly now doing the same thing.

Looking forward to trying it out this winter.

Thanks to all those who provided the parts list and photos to doo this. Much appreciated!
 

Sleds R Fun

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Dec 31, 2007
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View attachment 372386


Yesterday had the 2020 C-motion arm installed on my 2020 Freeride to delete T-motion.

Parts cost $300. Shop labor was 1.5 hours to install.
Bolted right in. No issues and same geometry.

Didn't trust using the lockout washers.


Just tipping the sled on the trailer floor I can tell it's harder to pull over - not "oh my god" harder, but harder. Before I did the swap the sled was wobbly when flat when I moved it side to side. It's not wobbly now doing the same thing.

Looking forward to trying it out this winter.

Thanks to all those who provided the parts list and photos to doo this. Much appreciated!
The C motion is from what model? Looks great and thanks
 

Devilmanak

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Dec 12, 2007
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View attachment 372386


Yesterday had the 2020 C-motion arm installed on my 2020 Freeride to delete T-motion.

Parts cost $300. Shop labor was 1.5 hours to install.
Bolted right in. No issues and same geometry.

Didn't trust using the lockout washers.


Just tipping the sled on the trailer floor I can tell it's harder to pull over - not "oh my god" harder, but harder. Before I did the swap the sled was wobbly when flat when I moved it side to side. It's not wobbly now doing the same thing.

Looking forward to trying it out this winter.

Thanks to all those who provided the parts list and photos to doo this. Much appreciated!
That is how they should be from the factory. Or at least the option.
 
Jan 4, 2015
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Canada
Its kind of complicated. Because its not really a straight comparison..

The backcountry xrs has curved rails, and no flex edge track. The pro 40 shocks in the rear have different springs as well, its basically set up for more trail friendly manners. From the factory the spindles are quite different too, more of a trail/zrp geometry. And the front suspension is roughly 39 inches set in the middle.

I have summit arms on it now, summit expert ski rubbers and the skis set in the middle. and all else is stock.

All that being said, The sled still feels twitchy in a sidehill. just not nearly as bad as a summit. Personally, I think the skis are the biggest part of the issue. However, when you combine the skis with t-motion and the flex edge track you get a squirrely mess in anything but deep power.

I drove the lynx with the flex edge track, and it did much better than a summit or backcountry xrs. Front suspension was the same as a summit, as was the track, only defining difference was the rear suspension and skis, so go figure.
Lynx has stiffer ski springs which changes the behavior, too.
 
Feb 7, 2009
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Wabush, Labrador
Lynx has stiffer ski springs which changes the behavior, too.
Yes for sure. I believe they are valved stiffer than you'd see in a summit as well. but I have pro36 ski shocks and find adjusting the compression knob accomplishes the same effect. Personally I love cranking the compression up. The Summit X needs a revalve or springs, or both... way too soft in my opinion.
 

Devilmanak

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I have complained for years about how squishy the Doos are. UNTIL the Expert came out. They got it close with the Expert. Even with the Freeride, I am full stiff on compression on all shocks and pretty much fully cranked on preload by the end of the year.
 

NHRoadking

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That's a good idea. They already have all of the parts. Problem is, it would be admitting that their T-Mo gimmick isn't a thing.
They kinda did that with the Lynx rear suspension set up. Other than some extra effort to get the Lynx on edge, reviewers seemed to like the non- t motion rear suspension on the Lynx better.
 
Nov 10, 2010
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I've been thinking on this topic a bunch over the past weeks, really contemplating what to do with my expert turbo 154 thats on the way. With the new 34 front end, I see no use for the t motion anymore, even with the 36 front end, you just look where you want to go and the sled follows.

On my past sled, 165 freeride, I used just the cheap washers to lockout t-motion. I tested on snow, putting in and taking out the washers a few times so I could feel the difference in the same conditions, on the same slope. I legitimately thought the sled performed better locked out, it just felt more sharp and precise to me, where as the t-motion feels a bit sluggish and wants to move around on you at times where you want a clean edge on snow. I remember doing the upgrade to a XP back in the day, but those sleds we so different, they were hard to get on edge and it did make a difference. fast forward 10 years with a gen4, better balanced sled, and now a 34 inch front end and I swear it just not needed.

Looking at options, I see 4 or 5 routes to lockout the rear end. I'm looking for input that people have on these options:

  • Cheap washers - they wear out, and I have seen a few that end up breaking the lower pivot arm. its the cheapest route, so thats the only positive. $50
  • Munster style heim joint replacement. seems a bit more solid then the washers, probably locks it slightly more, but still can have the lower pivot arm issues as the cheap washers. $70
    • With the washers or the munster setup, there is always the option to add the ZRP pivot arm, which looks super solid, and i think would not cause any issues. +$100
  • Zbroz style arms - this setup looks even better for lockout, but have heard of a few failures. if you see a failure here, it could be really bad as rumor is the arms can drop into the track and shred a track. makes me nervous. $150
  • C-motion. as stated above this is full OEM, so quality is good and no failures noted yet. Just jumps in price - $330
  • Skins Kit. Basically like C-Motion, but adding some more bling. Cost jumps to almost $500.
So, with those routes, what do people think is the best option? Writing it all out now, I think the munster kit with the added ZRP lower pivot is the best/cheapest way to go that will do a good job of locking out t-motion for a fair price, with limited to no failure risk. I like the Zbroz kit, but if any failure happens here you are out like $1500 for a track that could get shredded.

Thoughts from the internet??
 
Mar 15, 2018
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My thoughts are when we are riding machines that cost north of $15,000, Carrying them in/on expensive trailers/decks, are paying for premium fuel, and are paying $200 for a SPARE belt, not to mention all the avy gear, two way radios, several hundred dollar helmets and other clothing/gear etc, I wouldn't quibble over $300 extra for the best lockout system (which appears to be the C-motion) over the cheapest if I thought that it would improve my riding experience. Some guys spend several $1000 to trade every few years and sometimes all they get is a colour change. Bottom line, IMO if it's worth doing it's worth doing right. Otherwise don't bother.
 

NHRoadking

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Apr 23, 2012
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I've been thinking on this topic a bunch over the past weeks, really contemplating what to do with my expert turbo 154 thats on the way. With the new 34 front end, I see no use for the t motion anymore, even with the 36 front end, you just look where you want to go and the sled follows.

On my past sled, 165 freeride, I used just the cheap washers to lockout t-motion. I tested on snow, putting in and taking out the washers a few times so I could feel the difference in the same conditions, on the same slope. I legitimately thought the sled performed better locked out, it just felt more sharp and precise to me, where as the t-motion feels a bit sluggish and wants to move around on you at times where you want a clean edge on snow. I remember doing the upgrade to a XP back in the day, but those sleds we so different, they were hard to get on edge and it did make a difference. fast forward 10 years with a gen4, better balanced sled, and now a 34 inch front end and I swear it just not needed.

Looking at options, I see 4 or 5 routes to lockout the rear end. I'm looking for input that people have on these options:

  • Cheap washers - they wear out, and I have seen a few that end up breaking the lower pivot arm. its the cheapest route, so thats the only positive. $50
  • Munster style heim joint replacement. seems a bit more solid then the washers, probably locks it slightly more, but still can have the lower pivot arm issues as the cheap washers. $70
    • With the washers or the munster setup, there is always the option to add the ZRP pivot arm, which looks super solid, and i think would not cause any issues. +$100
  • Zbroz style arms - this setup looks even better for lockout, but have heard of a few failures. if you see a failure here, it could be really bad as rumor is the arms can drop into the track and shred a track. makes me nervous. $150
  • C-motion. as stated above this is full OEM, so quality is good and no failures noted yet. Just jumps in price - $330
  • Skins Kit. Basically like C-Motion, but adding some more bling. Cost jumps to almost $500.
So, with those routes, what do people think is the best option? Writing it all out now, I think the munster kit with the added ZRP lower pivot is the best/cheapest way to go that will do a good job of locking out t-motion for a fair price, with limited to no failure risk. I like the Zbroz kit, but if any failure happens here you are out like $1500 for a track that could get shredded.

Thoughts from the internet??\

Options 1-3 seem like half-measures to me. The Skinz kit doesn't seem worth the extra money over C-motion.
 
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