Axys primary clutch life

jhurkot · Dec 4, 2016

I'm only getting about 500 miles out of the p85 before it needs a rebuild. The failure point is always the same, the rollers. The cause of roller failure is excess heat. I can think of a couple solutions.

First, instead of having a plastic bushing in the roller it would be better to have a bearing. Does anyone currently make these?

Next I think some type of venting needs to be done. I would consider a blowhole but not sure about where they moved it for the axys.

2016 I had 2000 miles and 4 clutch rebuilds
2017 530 miles and rollers are nearly done.

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SRXSRULE · Dec 4, 2016

Im assuming if youve rebuilt it several times that you have already matched the weights on a scale?

I didnt see any wear issues last year at all in 1100 miles, BUT I was running a blow hole all the time and it blows a lot of heat out (also keeps the clutches cleaner).
The axys blow hole is very slick, plug and play into the factory DC plug. Bracket attaches where the factory oil res attaches to the belt guard and the fan part hooks into the bracket with no tools or fasteners.The side panel holds it firmly in place. You need the factory foam on your side panel to apply pressure and hold everything tight. You do have to cut a hole in the PTO side panel as the blow hole is venting right out the side. Comes with a metal vent to attach to the outside. You can also get a matching vent for the Mag side of the sled but I dont install that side. Eric

ripnit · Dec 4, 2016

Not sure what's happing to need rebuild at 500 miles....have 3 axys one with 800 miles, 1200miles, and 1800 miles with rollers still good. Bushings in the weights needs replaced every 500-750 miles(for optimum performance) or 1000-1500miles other wise the weight side loads the roller into the spider and locks it up then flat spots the roller and locks up the clutch( on the pro, with no maintenance, would lock up around 2500 miles). IMO a little looseness in the roller is normal as long as its not eating into the spider.

Hawkster · Dec 4, 2016

Do yourself a favor and look up Cvtech , Poo is running the trailbloc primary and secondary in their fanner and I think in some other machines they build ? Cvtech makes different versions that is used in production model side by sides , wheelers , two and four stroke sleds etc.etc .

You might want to add a starter ring gear to the clutch if you don't have ES . The weight stays centralized , meaning it does not fling out and the response is instant and your crank might not be able to handle it .

geo · Dec 4, 2016

Your holding it pinned too long jhurkot.

Yamaha is the best at computor modeling the CVT transmission. In the mid 70's they showed us how wear was increased and efficiency lost exponentially with increased rpm.
When the SRX racers-VMax 4's came out they produced thin walled rollers, new plastic material (more plastic bushing than steel roller) and larger diameter pins (less steel mass, larger bearing surface), to counter the heat the extra rpm made.
If the answer was heavier needle bearing rollers I am sure they would have done that instead.

Axys equals 8300 8400, old Pro 8000 8100. Difference in clutch life. It may be time for Polaris to get off their laurels and take an old Yamaha primary apart.

One thing that has helped me get more life out of North American clutches over the years was using a 911 cover. It moves easier and stays consistent in clearance and shape throughout the heat range. And,,, if you ride lot, spritz (oh no!) a bit of dry Teflon lube once a week on the rollers ( a bit on both sides, wipe the contact surface clean). Flushes out the belt dust and makes them spin like crazy with the flick of a finger.
Other than that, and this is where I sit about now lol, slow down and take the trail more if you want more miles out of your clutch jhurkot.

By the way, you didn't describe how you know your rollers are gone or going (while riding). May help some others.

sumtinwong · Dec 4, 2016

don't know how often u are cleaning the clutches but its quick and easy to blow them out with compressed air every feu hundred miles piles of dust will plum out!! I also wash them with hot soapy water a feu times a season {I have heard u can pop them off and toss them in the dishwasher to never tried it but I bet it works good} just a feu thoughts that might help

AdrenalineAddict · Dec 4, 2016

There is a chance you have a crank with excess runout, greater than .0045". I received a shortblock from Polaris last season that ate the rollers in 600 miles, at 900 miles the crank broke and failed right in the middle of the double row PTO end. At 600 miles when I pulled the clutch I found it had excessive runout. The sled vibrated like a buzz saw until it self destructed. New shortblock is very smooth.

xmk1080 · Dec 4, 2016

jhurkot said:
I'm only getting about 500 miles out of the p85 before it needs a rebuild. The failure point is always the same, the rollers. The cause of roller failure is excess heat. I can think of a couple solutions.

First, instead of having a plastic bushing in the roller it would be better to have a bearing. Does anyone currently make these?

Next I think some type of venting needs to be done. I would consider a blowhole but not sure about where they moved it for the axys.

2016 I had 2000 miles and 4 clutch rebuilds
2017 530 miles and rollers are nearly done.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you blowing belts? I blew my first belt at around 200 miles on the trail because of excessive heat, did a bunch of clutching and got it way better, but I still blew another belt on a hill (not loaded to hard) at around 800 miles. Checked runout and it was about .018, four times the max runout. Pto bearing was out. I honestley think the the clutching is off at higher altitude (to steep of a secondary helix)

jhurkot · Dec 4, 2016

I have checked weights on a gram scale to confirm they are all the same.

Sometimes the sled won't hit rpm with a bad roller but I've had them still hit rpm and the roller finally slips out and the weight swings past the roller and jams the primary clutch wide open.

Lots of great advice so far, I'm really considering the blow hole. As far as belts go here is the pile so far....

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Indy_500 · Dec 4, 2016

I have 840 miles on my Axys, with no abnormal roller wear and ran all last season on the same oem belt that came on it from the factory. Yes the performance on it wasn't as good as early on since the belt was worn out but I made it work just fine. There's got to be something up with your clutching if you're roasting belts like that, I ride tight technical trees and am on and off the throttle constantly. Don't do many long pulls but held my sled wide open for a good 3-4 miles at 8400 rpm racing my group back to the truck on Lolo pass one day and rode the sled 3 more days after that with the same belt which now got retired as a spare...

Hitman450 · Dec 4, 2016

My sled 16 axys 155 isn't to good with making belts last very long either.

goforbroke · Dec 4, 2016

Good post. One of the things I love about polaris is the p-85 clutch. I've had a few sleds with over 4000 miles and replaced weights, due to bushings loose and not smooth. I also get 500 plus miles out of the belt. I'm at 10,000' feet and not seeing the horsepower that you do, but I find it odd that you have had roller problem and I've never heard of a weight swinging past the roller. Mine cant even open far enough for the weight to do that unless the belt is coming out of the clutch faces. Good luck.

AndrettiDog · Dec 4, 2016

Something's not right if belts are blowing out that easily. I've only lost one Polaris belt in 8 sleds and it was on a turbo. I put on 800-1400 miles a year. Maybe I'm lucky.

I second weighing the stock weights. I always do now. On my Axys, I had one weight that was a full gram heavier than the lightest weight. The third one was in the middle. I ground them all down to within .1 gram.

I've also decided to change the primary spring each year. They are only $27 to be sure that the old spring isn't wearing out too quickly.

Buy the alignment tool. Most of the time my alignment has been on par. But it's still helpful to eliminate that potential issue. If you ever take your secondary off and mix up the washers, it could mess up the alignment.

xmk1080 · Dec 5, 2016

Thats a big pile of belts, your clutches are definitely getting hot. I'd start from scratch again and send your clutch out and get the faces resurfaced and then balanced. Your clutching is way off because of all the belt heat you are creating. I know that the pro belt was a softer compound but was the same length and width, but the side angle maybe different (maybe someone else can verify) After I got my pro's clutched right I never ate another belt. My axys was getting hot also with stock clutching, I do most of my riding between 8000 to 11,000 ft. I started with a 56-38.36 and that helped a lot but I don't think that the motor needs to be loaded that hard in the bottom because it just might be slipping the belt a little. Going to try a couple dual progressive helixes. I'm wanting to start with a 44-38-36.36 and the other angle a 42-36-34.36 with the stock springs or at least start with they. It will hopefully load the motor just enough in the beginning and then progressively take just a little bit of helix out as you climb and not slip the belt in the primary. I'm running the 2.6 x 163 with 8 tooth drives and a 2.42 tki gear ratio, would also like to try the pro belt. Does anyone else have some different clutching ideas or know what has worked?

Teth-Air · Dec 11, 2016

You guy have not seen Johnny ride. I don't think there is a clutch or a belt made that he can't make fail. He is the only guy that
I know that made the G4 cry and then fade to limp mode last Spring when testing them. It's not abuse, just extreme conditions with no chance to cool down. He really needs to be a test pilot for Polaris.
Gearing and clutching is the answer before venting.

Teth-Air · Dec 11, 2016

xmk1080 said:
Thats a big pile of belts, your clutches are definitely getting hot. I'd start from scratch again and send your clutch out and get the faces resurfaced and then balanced. Your clutching is way off because of all the belt heat you are creating. I know that the pro belt was a softer compound but was the same length and width, but the side angle maybe different (maybe someone else can verify) After I got my pro's clutched right I never ate another belt. My axys was getting hot also with stock clutching, I do most of my riding between 8000 to 11,000 ft. I started with a 56-38.36 and that helped a lot but I don't think that the motor needs to be loaded that hard in the bottom because it just might be slipping the belt a little. Going to try a couple dual progressive helixes. I'm wanting to start with a 44-38-36.36 and the other angle a 42-36-34.36 with the stock springs or at least start with they. It will hopefully load the motor just enough in the beginning and then progressively take just a little bit of helix out as you climb and not slip the belt in the primary. I'm running the 2.6 x 163 with 8 tooth drives and a 1.42 tki gear ratio, would also like to try the pro belt. Does anyone else have some different clutching ideas or know what has worked?

That is stupidly high gearing, did you mean 2.42:1? and wont the lower helix angle you are running prevent shift out and make it rev higher. Was unclear when you said you were going to load the motor more? Less angle allows the secondary to open without as much rotation against the torque of the belt puling on the sheave.

xmk1080 · Dec 11, 2016

Teth-Air said:
That is stupidly high gearing, did you mean 2.42:1? and wont the lower helix angle you are running prevent shift out and make it rev higher. Was unclear when you said you were going to load the motor more? Less angle allows the secondary to open without as much rotation against the torque of the belt puling on the sheave.

Testing at 9000 to 11,000 in Colorado

Opps, 2.42 gearing is what I ment, I better fix that.

Stock helix is 40 degrees, rpm's are to low. I knew that I needed to pull some helix out and I also thought that I would try to load the pipe at the initial shift.

56-38.36 75 mph should be about max speed with the 2.42 gear ratio. So its going to start with a 56 progressively shift to 38 degrees in the first .36 of the helix. With a 1.1 full shift ratio the .36 is 32.73% of the total shift so it will be out of the progressive angle and hit the straight angle at 24 mph.

I think that 56 is to much of a load in the bottom or should I say initial angle. This really woke the sled up but I think that the belt was slipping a little in the bottom of the primary sheeve, yes I could go to a heavier heel weight but I like how responsive it is!

44-38-36.36
42-36-34.36 This are the next angles that I would like to try, Just a little bit more angle that stock to load the motor/pipe and then a slight progressive angle so that i can stay at my target rpm.

I may be running 2 to degrees less helix but the secondary will shift out just as fast because I'm in my power band and it won't get as hot which is a lot more efficent. I'm strictly clutching for power riding and not the trail.

JMCX · Dec 11, 2016

jhurkot said:
I have checked weights on a gram scale to confirm they are all the same.

Sometimes the sled won't hit rpm with a bad roller but I've had them still hit rpm and the roller finally slips out and the weight swings past the roller and jams the primary clutch wide open.

Lots of great advice so far, I'm really considering the blow hole. As far as belts go here is the pile so far....

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You could probably save your self a lot of money by taking a five minute break once in a while.

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Axys primary clutch life

jhurkot

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ripnit

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geo

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sumtinwong

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