Axys belt life/rpm fade issues?

goridedoo · Apr 4, 2017

I had similar issues my last ride. What should we be expecting from our dealer if we have warranty? I haven't even contacted them... I live 12 hours from mountains, and we have zero snow at home. Sled was only acting up at 9000'+. Would drop to around 7700 rpm at 9500' clutched for 10000'-12000', air temp around 35. Thinking it will be tough for dealer to diagnose.

goridedoo · Apr 4, 2017

I can see my right rear motor mount is shot, guessing it wouldn't hurt to replace the others. TPS is likely off, it doesn't start well when warm and occasionally takes a few tries to get it in reverse.

Blew first belt around 350 miles. Clutches get "hot" but don't boil water/snow like Doos.

Told Polaris how I felt in the online survey that I got a card for in the mail and encourage others to do the same. Clutch alignment should be right from the factory, TPS should be set correctly, track shouldn't be shot in 500 miles, relays shouldn't need to be replaced constantly... I shouldn't blow belts every 300 miles, my motor mounts shouldn't be shot and shouldn't be backordered, I shouldn't be able to buy a virtually identical sled to my snowcheck from my dealership in January for $4000 less than what I paid. The list goes on.

Jreng87 · Apr 4, 2017

diamonddave said:
Probably ride to F'n hard Nick.

Sorry, in all seriousness if the valves are working properly, it might be time for a teardown. Ring failure is even worse than the Pro-Ride.

We tore down a '16 last weekend with 600 miles that reminded me of a Pro with 1,500 miles. Low and fading RPM.

This right here.

Chased the same issue on my turbo after about 300-700 miles. All the "standard" check items were done, some even multiple times.

Weak ring seals won't necessarily show up with a compression test. Cylinder keeps building pressure and the tester captures the highest amount built. That doesn't mean the cylinder actually holds the pressure and that is an RPM killer.

Wheel House Motorsports · Apr 4, 2017

Jreng87 said:
This right here.

Chased the same issue on my turbo after about 300-700 miles. All the "standard" check items were done, some even multiple times.

Weak ring seals won't necessarily show up with a compression test. Cylinder keeps building pressure and the tester captures the highest amount built. That doesn't mean the cylinder actually holds the pressure and that is an RPM killer.

Hmm, well, I just got my new tunnel in to fix my 16 so who knows, 17 may end up sitting in the dealer some and get sorted out. Ill try calling them here in a few and see what they can't get done.

I appreciate all the input guys.

adamg · Apr 5, 2017

Guys, please keep us lurkers up to date on progress you make. I'm also dealing with my Axys being down on RPM / power since new and interested in what you come up with.

Wheel House Motorsports · Apr 5, 2017

I dropped the 17 off at the dealer today. When I listed all of the things I had tried before giving it to them I just got a blank stare like oh crap, its not just a worn out belt. hahah

TRS · Apr 5, 2017

Nick,
Have them check the pin tensions. There have been problems at the ECU as well.

AdrenalineAddict · Apr 5, 2017

I hope you come out better than I. I dropped my low RPM 1,100 mile Axys off at the dealer and they called a week later wanting a credit card to charge $380.00. They found nothing wrong and wondered when I was going to pick up my sled. Crank true and in phase, compression good, exhaust valves working properly. The only advice they had was try this new $180.00 belt, set deflection and go, we'll only charge you $200.00 for finding nothing and you'll be fine. Still won't pull 8,000 r's even at 7,000' in 25 degree air, 1' of fresh snow and 10-60's. Let us know what you find, it sounds as though there are many of us who would like to find the real problem.

Wheel House Motorsports · Apr 5, 2017

AdrenalineAddict said:
I hope you come out better than I. I dropped my low RPM 1,100 mile Axys off at the dealer and they called a week later wanting a credit card to charge $380.00. They found nothing wrong and wondered when I was going to pick up my sled. Crank true and in phase, compression good, exhaust valves working properly. The only advice they had was try this new $180.00 belt, set deflection and go, we'll only charge you $200.00 for finding nothing and you'll be fine. Still won't pull 8,000 r's even at 7,000' in 25 degree air, 1' of fresh snow and 10-60's. Let us know what you find, it sounds as though there are many of us who would like to find the real problem.

Oh boy.... that is pretty bad. But I bet by the time I get to 1100 miles mine would be that bad or worse the way it's been getting. My worst pull I managed to get mine down to around 7400 rpm. My dad passed me on his snowbike. That's embarassing.

Luckily there is a nice little clutching chart and recommendations for weights. If the sled can't do that. Maybe I'll go try their '18 demo units that just showed up out. Those might run ok for a few miles.

Jreng87 · Apr 5, 2017

AdrenalineAddict said:
I hope you come out better than I. I dropped my low RPM 1,100 mile Axys off at the dealer and they called a week later wanting a credit card to charge $380.00. They found nothing wrong and wondered when I was going to pick up my sled. Crank true and in phase, compression good, exhaust valves working properly. The only advice they had was try this new $180.00 belt, set deflection and go, we'll only charge you $200.00 for finding nothing and you'll be fine. Still won't pull 8,000 r's even at 7,000' in 25 degree air, 1' of fresh snow and 10-60's. Let us know what you find, it sounds as though there are many of us who would like to find the real problem.

Poor ring seal will not necessarily show up in a compression test...

I know, it's an expensive fix and everyone wants to try and deny it, but at the end of the day how much money are you guys throwing at clutching and EV and getting no results?

Also, what are your guys plugs looking like?

RMK-King · Apr 6, 2017

Do a leak down test to check for ring seal? Thats pretty sad if the rings are wore in 500 miles.. I noticed mine with 550 miles on it has dropped 100-200 RPMs from when it was new, I am still running the original belt so I am hoping a new one will bring it back to where it was. 83-8400RPM is defiantly the sweet spot, when it suddenly starts peaking at only 8000rpm it makes it feel like a pooch.

greasemonkey3406 · Apr 6, 2017

Check your exhaust seals also. Might not be a visible leak but it doesn't take much to lose a few hp.

Wheel House Motorsports · Apr 6, 2017

greasemonkey3406 said:
Check your exhaust seals also. Might not be a visible leak but it doesn't take much to lose a few hp.

That was part of my vision testing different exhaust setups, I know thats been know to cause some lower performance. Full stock, stock with can, full slp. All perfectly clean sealed junctions.

Murph · Apr 7, 2017

Sheetmetalfab said:
They are extremely sensitive to deflection adjustments. ********
Too tight or loose will effect this.

One guy here in ak has replaced 2 ev cables from stretching.
Same symptoms.

To be perfectly clear, these are questions to help me understand better-- these aren't accusations or questioning the validity of your statements....

Belt deflection-- you are finding too tight is affecting peak rpm?

I've been using the same tighten-to-creep (with no belt squeal) method that I have always used. Are you setting to Service manual spec of 1.25" of deflection?

EV cable stretching-- There is no spec for cable length, the EV learn procedure is meant to compensate for different production lengths-- but you state that someone had two cables replaced due to stretching-- Performing the EV learn process after cable stretching couldn't compensate for the stretched cable? Or did the stretched cable fail the exhaust valve travel test (Full-in to full-out 16-18mm)?

Again, not questioning the validity of your statement, just trying to understand as I'm looking for my lost rpm....

Sheetmetalfab · Apr 7, 2017

Murph said:
To be perfectly clear, these are questions to help me understand better-- these aren't accusations or questioning the validity of your statements....

Belt deflection-- you are finding too tight is affecting peak rpm?

I've been using the same tighten-to-creep (with no belt squeal) method that I have always used. Are you setting to Service manual spec of 1.25" of deflection?

EV cable stretching-- There is no spec for cable length, the EV learn procedure is meant to compensate for different production lengths-- but you state that someone had two cables replaced due to stretching-- Performing the EV learn process after cable stretching couldn't compensate for the stretched cable? Or did the stretched cable fail the exhaust valve travel test (Full-in to full-out 16-18mm)?

Again, not questioning the validity of your statement, just trying to understand as I'm looking for my lost rpm....

I have seen too tight cause low peak rpm.
When I adjust on the hill (only time i do) it's usually based on tightest without squeel.

Regarding the cable the guy in question is Chad with A2DSLEDWORKS in anchorage.
Check out their website and give him a call.
My understanding was that the jam nuts were tight and the exhaust valves slowly became out of adjustment. Multiple times.
FWIW

AdrenalineAddict · Apr 7, 2017

My plugs look perfect, motor wouldn't spin faster than 7950 at 7,000 ' today. Will low fuel pressure cause this type of condition and how do you test fuel pressure?

TRS · Apr 7, 2017

AdrenalineAddict said:
My plugs look perfect, motor wouldn't spin faster than 7950 at 7,000 ' today. Will low fuel pressure cause this type of condition and how do you test fuel pressure?

You need to build an inline adapter and buy a gauge. Parts to build one are available at NAPA and Carquest.

Jreng87 · Apr 7, 2017

AdrenalineAddict said:
My plugs look perfect, motor wouldn't spin faster than 7950 at 7,000 ' today. Will low fuel pressure cause this type of condition and how do you test fuel pressure?

Absolutely!

Also, how warm was it today where you ride? Fuel temp can affect hp as well, especially when it starts getting warm,

geo · Apr 8, 2017

Sheetmetalfab said:
I have seen too tight cause low peak rpm.
When I adjust on the hill (only time i do) it's usually based on tightest without squeel.

If you get technical with the Team 04 belt deflection you need to point out the single adjustment screw location when adjusting.
Screw in between the clutches leaves tight deflection and may squeal if you set deflection with the screw furthest from the primary.
So "set to squealing" depends on the secondary position at the time.

If you want to get closest to minimum deflection you need to make some shims to fit in there like the old days. Delrin works good and gets rid of the squeal possibility when deflection is set.

Killer Time Racing · Apr 11, 2017

Someone should make up resistor jumpers for warm days . Like a SLP resistor ( those richen up the entire map )

Adjustable Box next !! Temp compensating feature optional of course ?

Axys belt life/rpm fade issues?

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