Off a pro and on an XM? Positives? negatives?

deaner · Nov 26, 2013

Jaynelson said:
Here's an honest question for the doo guys...and I'm not just being a smart ***. Sorry if this is a little off-topic, but reliability always comes up when comparing these 2.

I've been helping a friend look for a 2010+ doo, and have been blown away at how many sleds for sale have rebuilt or replaced motors around 2000 ish miles. P-teks and etecs. Is that more the norm for piston replacement than is generally known? Any thoughts? Lord knows we have all heard about piston replacement on the pols....

I have a new engine in my 2010 with around 3000km on it. I changed pistons every season because it is cheap and easy. Reason for full rebuild was that crank runout was 9 thou. Was premature in my opinion. The only thing I can think of is I removed my ring gear on my primary? Anyhoo I had a full rebuild done and put the ring gear back on. Engine builder told me the new cranks are much much better.

How much is your buddy looking to spend? I may be able to talk the wife into selling this one. Absolutely mint.

winter brew · Nov 26, 2013

Jaynelson said:
Here's an honest question for the doo guys...and I'm not just being a smart ***. Sorry if this is a little off-topic, but reliability always comes up when comparing these 2.

I've been helping a friend look for a 2010+ doo, and have been blown away at how many sleds for sale have rebuilt or replaced motors around 2000 ish miles. P-teks and etecs. Is that more the norm for piston replacement than is generally known? Any thoughts? Lord knows we have all heard about piston replacement on the pols....

I would say 2,000-ish miles is time for pistons (minimum) on any 2-stroke ridden only in the mountains. Flatlands, almost double that.

Jaynelson · Nov 26, 2013

winter brew said:
I would say 2,000-ish miles is time for pistons (minimum) on any 2-stroke ridden only in the mountains. Flatlands, almost double that.

I would agree with that brew....just funny coming from the pro forum where pistons @ 1,500 - 2,000 miles is regarded as unreasonable. I was assuming other manufacturers were getting more life out of them for that to be a "big deal."

elkhunt · Nov 26, 2013

Jaynelson said:
I would agree with that brew....just funny coming from the pro forum where pistons @ 1,500 - 2,000 miles is regarded as unreasonable. I was assuming other manufacturers were getting more life out of them for that to be a "big deal."

From a Cat riders point of view 1500-2000 miles for pistons would be very unreasonable! I ride with a bunch of them and NONE of them have had issues upwards of 3000 to 5000 mile on the 700 and 800 Ms and the 3 m1000s are going strong with 2000+.

So it can be done....

deaner · Nov 26, 2013

What a great thread. Pretty much sums it up. Yes the cat engines are unreal. But ive been hearing some stories about 9-10,000 mile XMs. I cant imagine putting on 9000km in a season!

Ace Freely · Nov 26, 2013

It will be interesting to see if the longevity in the Cats stick around now that they are being produced here. I am HOPING that they are equal or better to the Jap's!!!

Ace

backcountryislife · Nov 26, 2013

elkhunt said:
From a Cat riders point of view 1500-2000 miles for pistons would be very unreasonable! I ride with a bunch of them and NONE of them have had issues upwards of 3000 to 5000 mile on the 700 and 800 Ms and the 3 m1000s are going strong with 2000+.

So it can be done....

I've been on cats for the last 6 sleds(05 or 06) and I've never gone past 1500-1800 on a set of pistons. IMO if you ride hard, pushing piston skirts longer is asking for trouble. I also feel that the FIFO design of the cat is risking the front skirt a little more than a traditional motor setup, but longevity of the rest of the motor is so exceptional that this one shortcoming (exacerbated by cold air or open style intakes imo) is worth dealing with. If I could have a cat motor in my XM I would in a heartbeat. It's unfortunate they stopped making mountain sleds

Btw, I'm a technical tree rider and have said that the pro is the best chassis on the snow, but after getting used to the XM I've found that I can do things that I couldn't do on a cat or a pro. I can't say that it's "better" but I feel it's VERY close (and HUGELY better than the 12+ cat imo), without the significant drawbacks of the pro's power & reliability issues.

deaner · Nov 26, 2013

backcountryislife said:
Btw, I'm a technical tree rider and have said that the pro is the best chassis on the snow, but after getting used to the XM I've found that I can do things that I couldn't do on a cat or a pro. I can't say that it's "better" but I feel it's VERY close (and HUGELY better than the 12+ cat imo), without the significant drawbacks of the pro's power & reliability issues.

I couldnt agree more. I just have to take peoples word for it that the pros are better in the trees. They must be a good chassis because alot of people like them, but if im being honest I really hate them! But in all fairness havent spent enough time to really get used to one. I dont think there is anywhere in the trees I cant go on an XP/XM that a pro can. But I do understand what people dont like about the doo chassis.

backcountryislife · Nov 26, 2013

deaner said:
I couldnt agree more. I just have to take peoples word for it that the pros are better in the trees. They must be a good chassis because alot of people like them, but if im being honest I really hate them! But in all fairness havent spent enough time to really get used to one. I dont think there is anywhere in the trees I cant go on an XP/XM that a pro can. But I do understand what people dont like about the doo chassis.

To me it's about ease... and the pro really does stand out that a rider can quickly and easily excel in technical riding because it is an easy sled to ride, but the XM has a feel that's hard to explain, and the way I put it is that the XM feels like it has a round bottom. There isn't an "edge" to get past like there is on the pro. Once on edge the pro is amazingly stable, but the switch from side to side or from flat to sidehill is smoother on the XM imo.

The pro if set up right though is a pretty amazing machine, it really will take an intermediate rider and turn them into a strong rider quickly, where I feel the XM can take a strong rider & allow them to push a bit farther as well.

Pushing the limit of either sled... they both excel in different ways.

Stoked I've got an XM though, love this thing!

CoryHinsz · Nov 26, 2013

If you go the XM route - which I recommend - Xtreme Powersports in Okanogan is a great dealer. I drive three hours from Spokane to deal with them because they excel in taking care of their customers!

Ace Freely · Nov 26, 2013

CoryHinsz said:
If you go the XM route - which I recommend - Xtreme Powersports in Okanogan is a great dealer. I drive three hours from Spokane to deal with them because they excel in taking care of their customers!

X2

Darrin and the crew up there are hard to beat!

Ace

deaner · Nov 26, 2013

backcountryislife said:
To me it's about ease... and the pro really does stand out that a rider can quickly and easily excel in technical riding because it is an easy sled to ride, but the XM has a feel that's hard to explain, and the way I put it is that the XM feels like it has a round bottom. There isn't an "edge" to get past like there is on the pro. Once on edge the pro is amazingly stable, but the switch from side to side or from flat to sidehill is smoother on the XM imo.

The pro if set up right though is a pretty amazing machine, it really will take an intermediate rider and turn them into a strong rider quickly, where I feel the XM can take a strong rider & allow them to push a bit farther as well.

Pushing the limit of either sled... they both excel in different ways.

Stoked I've got an XM though, love this thing!

That puts it about perfectly. Couldnt agree more

Chubbydog · Nov 27, 2013

1 more thing to remember is if you plan on keeping this for more than a year, then think about the warranty. I talked to a few dealers who sold both Polaris, and Doo, and they both told me that Skidoo warranty was way better. They didn't have to fight for everything if you needed something replaced mid season. Espically after the factory warranty is gone, and Polaris is going through a second hand insurer. Skidoo is 3 year bumper to bumper factory warranty.

The 4 year BTB sold me on the snocheck this year. That's worth a lot to me. I plan on keeping my sled for 3 or 4 years though, and it's nice to know I'll be covered for everything that whole time.

Your going to have fun reguardless of what sled your on, because there both a blast to ride. After you set the sled up to you, then your really not going to notice the weight, power, or any other differences between the sleds. JMO!

Z-Man · Nov 29, 2013

I was able to ride the cat m1100, the m8, the Polarispro and the xm in 146, 154, and 163 last year. One thing I haven't seen mentioned here that was spot on in the last snowest revue was the difference track length makes on the doo. The 163 felt very sluggish when you went to turn, much like an XP. The 154 was almost effortless to turn and I could whip the sled around on a dime. I tested the Doo's at Blewett pass and in the snow conditions I found there it was the hands down winner. I also felt it was the only sled that out of the box needed nothing. So far I've had my new XM out 1 time and put 60 miles on it and it's the only sled I've ever owned that I didn't even have to adjust one thing on. It just flat out works. :face-icon-small-coo

deaner · Nov 29, 2013

Z-Man said:
I was able to ride the cat m1100, the m8, the Polarispro and the xm in 146, 154, and 163 last year. One thing I haven't seen mentioned here that was spot on in the last snowest revue was the difference track length makes on the doo. The 163 felt very sluggish when you went to turn, much like an XP. The 154 was almost effortless to turn and I could whip the sled around on a dime. I tested the Doo's at Blewett pass and in the snow conditions I found there it was the hands down winner. I also felt it was the only sled that out of the box needed nothing. So far I've had my new XM out 1 time and put 60 miles on it and it's the only sled I've ever owned that I didn't even have to adjust one thing on. It just flat out works. :face-icon-small-coo

Huh? That makes a lot of sense then. I have 2 days on my 14 XM 163 and absolutely love it. I am honestly not touching a thing. Riding it COMPLETELY stock.

But I was really surprised at all of the reviews on the handling. I find it handles similar to a well set up XP. But my XP was a 154 and my XM is a 163. Be curious to try a 154 XM now. But having said that I still dont think I could go back. LOVE the 163. Cant believe how much of a difference it makes in the trees and on climbs. Didnt think I would notice it as much as I did.

Z-Man · Nov 29, 2013

deaner said:
Huh? That makes a lot of sense then. I have 2 days on my 14 XM 163 and absolutely love it. I am honestly not touching a thing. Riding it COMPLETELY stock.

But I was really surprised at all of the reviews on the handling. I find it handles similar to a well set up XP. But my XP was a 154 and my XM is a 163. Be curious to try a 154 XM now. But having said that I still dont think I could go back. LOVE the 163. Cant believe how much of a difference it makes in the trees and on climbs. Didnt think I would notice it as much as I did.

I found the 163 to feel like an XP too but I didn't care for the XP. I did like the 163 if I was climbing though. It fealt like it could climb anything and was completely unefected by ruts.

Snow4life · Dec 1, 2013

I come off of a 2013 pro 800 155 to a 2014 freeride. I have 50 miles on the freeride so far and I dont miss my pro at all. I was a little worried when I got the freeride on how well it would side hill and perform in the trees. Im more than happy with the sled.

galljr13 · Dec 3, 2013

Last year I rode a 2013 XM 154, 2012 Pro 155, and 2013 Cat 1100 Turbo. I hated the XM, just didn't feel right for me but decent power and build quality. The Pro was fun but felt like junk and in my mind is junk, but fun. Polaris just doesn't have tight build tolerances. To my shock, I loved the 1100 T. I love the power and the reliability of the Suzuki engine. Don't mind the weight either. To each there own.

Z-Man · Dec 3, 2013

galljr13 said:
Last year I rode a 2013 XM 154, 2012 Pro 155, and 2013 Cat 1100 Turbo. I hated the XM, just didn't feel right for me but decent power and build quality. The Pro was fun but felt like junk and in my mind is junk, but fun. Polaris just doesn't have tight build tolerances. To my shock, I loved the 1100 T. I love the power and the reliability of the Suzuki engine. Don't mind the weight either. To each there own.

The 1100T felt like it had great power off the line but felt like it fell off as you accelerated. The one I rode had speedwerx multimap tuning. It just seemed like a ton of work on my arms to ride it. I was exhausted after riding it for a short time. I enjoyed the M8 much more.

galljr13 · Dec 3, 2013

Arms will be tired due to the huge torque difference. Your body adjusts to the new exercise program of hanging on. Power drop off? Interesting, never felt that but heard some did because of loose hoses. My 1100 T produces about 100HP (60HP stock) more than both the XM and the Pro at elevation and I was able to shed about 40lbs in weight in 10 minutes of mods. About three hours of work and the sled rips and has an engine that will last for 1000's of miles before needing work.

The M8 rocks too. That was my previous sled.

Off a pro and on an XM? Positives? negatives?

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