Mountaintech A Arms for Nytro MTX

Mountaintech · Nov 23, 2013

I spent all last season testing and have enough faith in the design that I don't feel the need for guinea pigs for a whole season. The days I spent playing with different arms and settings (many times different settings on either side) taught me what works and what doesn't on the Nytro. I'm not going to get into a pissing match. Spend the time I did and then PM me with your opinions. My design is very different functionally from the "prototypes" I tested last season.

Serotonin · Nov 23, 2013

I hadn't noticed there was another newb replying to this thread - that is funny!

I've actually been reading a fair bit on Snowest over the past year but only just got an account now. I stick to DooTalk mostly and never really needed to post anything here. However, last season I met a new riding buddy with a Nytro MTX and he turned me on to this forum. He's been talking about getting this kit which is why I finally decided to register and post something. I don't know Mountaintech at all because I'm not a yammie guy, but the thought of my buddy getting hurt on his sled from an untested front end kit concerns me. If this kit is tested and holds up as well or better than stock that's fine, and hopefully Mountaintech will respond as such. But if this kit has not been tested I don't want to be the guy picking up pieces of my buddy off the side of the hill if this kit breaks while he's ripping through the trees. He does some pretty crazy stuff on his sled that I'm way too chicken to do.

Those details aside, I have to give kudos to Mountaintech for pushing the envelope and building a front end kit that is visually different than the others. While I don't necessarily agree with some elements of the design, I love the innovation that drives it. But if Mountaintech is selling a front end kit at a profit while putting unsuspecting riders at risk by selling them something that has not been thoroughly tested, that's really not fair to the snowmobiling community. It would be better for Mountaintech to wait a year and put it through its paces before subjecting unsuspecting riders to such risks. Also the world today is very litigious and Mountaintech is putting their company right in the crosshairs of a lawsuit if someone gets hurt because this kit has some sort of fatal flaw in its design.

Again, I like the concept but I'd feel a whole lot better if a dozen people had ridden this kit hard and had some idea of how it holds up. If a dozen people have ridden this kit hard, please speak up!!!

Serotonin · Nov 23, 2013

Mountaintech said:
I spent all last season testing and have enough faith in the design that I don't feel the need for guinea pigs for a whole season. The days I spent playing with different arms and settings (many times different settings on either side) taught me what works and what doesn't on the Nytro. I'm not going to get into a pissing match. Spend the time I did and then PM me with your opinions. My design is very different functionally from the "prototypes" I tested last season.

Functionally I'm sure the front end has its merits (not that I will ever know because I ride a Summit). It's structural integrity is what I'm concerned with. No disrespect Mountaintech, but I don't know how aggressive your staff rides, how many of them have ridden this kit, and what punishment they've subjected this front end to. Plus it's hard to assess how objective your opinions are when your company is the one making a profit from selling these kits. It would be nice to hear some feedback from someone who doesn't work for Mountaintech.

Mountaintech · Nov 23, 2013

Serotonin said:
Functionally I'm sure the front end has its merits (not that I will ever know because I ride a Summit). It's structural integrity is what I'm concerned with. No disrespect Mountaintech, but I don't know how aggressive your staff rides, how many of them have ridden this kit, and what punishment they've subjected this front end to. Plus it's hard to assess how objective your opinions are when your company is the one making a profit from selling these kits. It would be nice to hear some feedback from someone who doesn't work for Mountaintech.

No worries on the structural integrity. Definitely stronger than OEM and overbuilt in comparison to the competition. 3/4" CM rod ends on the bottom arm and 5/8" on top. And much stronger than a Doo front end!

Serotonin · Nov 23, 2013

Mountaintech said:
No worries on the structural integrity. Definitely stronger than OEM and overbuilt in comparison to the competition. 3/4" CM rod ends on the bottom arm and 1/2" on top. And much stronger than a Doo front end!

That's good to hear, but I don't really know you from Adam and by nature of the fact that you derive a profit from selling these kits presents a conflict of interest. You could just be saying all this so you're not undermining your own sales, or perhaps you're being completely honest. Also, how do we assess you're riding techniques and whether you're qualified to perform stress testing on metals and their welds? If you are a structural engineer, AWS Certified welder, or build chromoly NASCAR roll cages for a living please say so, and I sincerely apologize for questioning you. All I'm pointing out is that a little more information would relieve a lot of concern.

By the way, was that a sideways comment on my Summit?? Touche! I know the Doos have their issues just like anything, but mine is all stock and has served me well. At my age I don't really push it either, which I'm sure has something to do with it too. Sure I've hit a few things here and there - who hasn't - but nothing broke or bent. Plus my wife can get a lot of money off Bombardier if something breaks and sends me off a cliff. I hope she doesn't read this and get any ideas - better hide my hacksaws. I leave all that aggressive riding and crazy front end stuff to my riding buddy thank you very much. It's a young man's game. I just don't want to see him get hurt, that's all. He's a decent, trusting kid and because I'm a crusty old coot that has seen too many things go wrong I feel somewhat obligated to look out for him.

kuart · Nov 23, 2013

BigFish BC said:
strange how 2 peps with no posts jumped on this thread, iam not defending him just funny thats all.anyway if you had been on snowest in the last year reading a-arm threads he has answered this befor & iam sure he will again.

Didn't realize I needed a high post count to ask questions or place a comment!
I lurk more than post.

autopro · Nov 23, 2013

I have purchased Mountaintechs products for my own Nytro and have sold his products to my customers. I have been very impressed with the engineering and workmanship. I am looking forward to purchasing and installing his new forward A-arm kit. Autopro

Serotonin · Nov 24, 2013

autopro said:
I have purchased Mountaintechs products for my own Nytro and have sold his products to my customers. I have been very impressed with the engineering and workmanship. I am looking forward to purchasing and installing his new forward A-arm kit. Autopro

That's great, please let us know how it holds up! My buddy said that Mountaintech had a good reputation for skid plates and other cosmetic pieces for Nytros so that's a good place to start. However, a-arms are a way different than flat pieces of metal and plastic. For a-arms there's a lot geometry involved and load calculations that need to be considered throughout the entire travel of the suspension components. That's why all the manufacturers use engineers (and likely some expensive computer software) to design and simulate loads on these parts. Of course a-arms can be built through the process of trial and error as well, but they need a lot more prototyping and testing which takes a lot more riding than any one person can put on in a single season. Get 20 people beating up these a-arms for a season and then you've got something but one guy riding it for a month means it's still a prototype.

irondave86 · Nov 24, 2013

Serotonin said:
That's great, please let us know how it holds up! My buddy said that Mountaintech had a good reputation for skid plates and other cosmetic pieces for Nytros so that's a good place to start. However, a-arms are a way different than flat pieces of metal and plastic. For a-arms there's a lot geometry involved and load calculations that need to be considered throughout the entire travel of the suspension components. That's why all the manufacturers use engineers (and likely some expensive computer software) to design and simulate loads on these parts. Of course a-arms can be built through the process of trial and error as well, but they need a lot more prototyping and testing which takes a lot more riding than any one person can put on in a single season. Get 20 people beating up these a-arms for a season and then you've got something but one guy riding it for a month means it's still a prototype.

Besides the big four, I'm willing to bet the farm that none of the suspension manufactures in the snowmobile industry are having their kits designed by an engineer. None of them are calculating loads throughout the entire suspension travel. In fact its kinda funny that you actually think all of that is going on. The truth is they are going about it the exact same way as mountaintech is. Kudos to mountaintech for stepping up and bringing another +3 frontend to market.

snowgood · Nov 24, 2013

research and testing

my testing on front arms has concluded that none of them will pass a good love tap from trees and landmines. but that's just my experience. :frusty:

as far as mountaintech i have his skid plate and by far its quality, durability, and strength in my opinion is a cut above the competition. If the same attention to detail, and over all passion is put into this it should be a excellent addition to my sled. through testing this winter i would imagine i will be in the market for arms and these fit the bill. they look awsm. anyways were already guinea pigs for china,at least he's from a town i know in a country i live in with a reputation for solid work!!!! Thank you to mountaintech and all the small aftermarket companies that spend there personal time to make our riding experience better. SG

Hornet · Nov 24, 2013

Serotonin said:
That's great, please let us know how it holds up! My buddy said that Mountaintech had a good reputation for skid plates and other cosmetic pieces for Nytros so that's a good place to start. However, a-arms are a way different than flat pieces of metal and plastic. For a-arms there's a lot geometry involved and load calculations that need to be considered throughout the entire travel of the suspension components. That's why all the manufacturers use engineers (and likely some expensive computer software) to design and simulate loads on these parts. Of course a-arms can be built through the process of trial and error as well, but they need a lot more prototyping and testing which takes a lot more riding than any one person can put on in a single season. Get 20 people beating up these a-arms for a season and then you've got something but one guy riding it for a month means it's still a prototype.

I think you've made your point. Looking forward to seeing these arms on the snow. I remember "engineered" kits with their broken shock mounts and undersized rod ends.

BigFish BC · Nov 24, 2013

kuart said:
Didn't realize I needed a high post count to ask questions or place a comment!
I lurk more than post.

no it dont, just though it was funny thats all.
not sure what kind of qualifications he has but if he can build this from scratch he has some skill
http://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=348685

SNWMBL · Nov 24, 2013

Serotonin said:
That's great, please let us know how it holds up! My buddy said that Mountaintech had a good reputation for skid plates and other cosmetic pieces for Nytros so that's a good place to start. However, a-arms are a way different than flat pieces of metal and plastic. For a-arms there's a lot geometry involved and load calculations that need to be considered throughout the entire travel of the suspension components. That's why all the manufacturers use engineers (and likely some expensive computer software) to design and simulate loads on these parts. Of course a-arms can be built through the process of trial and error as well, but they need a lot more prototyping and testing which takes a lot more riding than any one person can put on in a single season. Get 20 people beating up these a-arms for a season and then you've got something but one guy riding it for a month means it's still a prototype.

Enough of the BS already. The majority of engineers I've ran across base their information on computers and formulas, not real world experience & testing which is far more valuable to me.

The XP was engineered and was a disaster for a few years, plagued with issues. The Proclimb was in the same boat it's first year. Poo engineers haven't been able to make an 800 2-stroke reliable...ever. I could on all day but you get the point. MountainTech has only released top of the line products, I trust that his a-arms will be the same.

Serotonin · Nov 24, 2013

Mountaintech really has a lot of supportive friends on here. If all you guys are willing to pay $800 for the privilege of testing their new front end please let us know your feedback. The more feedback the better.

couch · Nov 25, 2013

Serotonin said:
That's great, please let us know how it holds up! My buddy said that Mountaintech had a good reputation for skid plates and other cosmetic pieces for Nytros so that's a good place to start. However, a-arms are a way different than flat pieces of metal and plastic. For a-arms there's a lot geometry involved and load calculations that need to be considered throughout the entire travel of the suspension components. That's why all the manufacturers use engineers (and likely some expensive computer software) to design and simulate loads on these parts. Of course a-arms can be built through the process of trial and error as well, but they need a lot more prototyping and testing which takes a lot more riding than any one person can put on in a single season. Get 20 people beating up these a-arms for a season and then you've got something but one guy riding it for a month means it's still a prototype.

Not so sure about that ... Yamaha probably had lots of engineering & support for the Nytro R&D and it still had / continues to have lots of issues stock! Not to knock a degree but sometimes common sense and a passion results in a better product - have meet loads of engineers who just don't have a clue .... that field is becoming akin to accounting ... just plug numbers into a formula and of course the answer will be right because that's what the degree means .... IMHO I've met a lot of persons with degrees who are educated beyond their ability (would't let some do an oil change and have meet lots who would not know where to start (BTW my background is in engineering)!

If the result works then great - end result is what matters in this case ....

Serotonin · Nov 25, 2013

couch said:
Not so sure about that ... Yamaha probably had lots of engineering & support for the Nytro R&D and it still had / continues to have lots of issues stock! Not to knock a degree but sometimes common sense and a passion results in a better product - have meet loads of engineers who just don't have a clue .... that field is becoming akin to accounting ... just plug numbers into a formula and of course the answer will be right because that's what the degree means .... IMHO I've met a lot of persons with degrees who are educated beyond their ability (would't let some do an oil change and have meet lots who would not know where to start (BTW my background is in engineering)!

If the result works then great - end result is what matters in this case ....

100% agreed with couch --> "If the result works then great - end result is what matters in this case". That's all I ever wanted to know about this product. Relying too heavily on the theoretical and not enough on real-world testing is a poor choice.

n2otoofast4u · Nov 25, 2013

Serotonin said:
100% agreed with couch --> "If the result works then great - end result is what matters in this case". That's all I ever wanted to know about this product. Relying too heavily on the theoretical and not enough on real-world testing is a poor choice.

Why are you still posting on this subject. You don't own a nytro, it seems you have no interest in the subject other than to run your cok holster about these arms that you have done nothing more than see pictures of! If you think ANY arm is going to take any sort of major impact you need to put down the pipe. For fack sakes polaris and all their engineered brilliance glued their arms together! How did that work out??? Take yourself, and your boring azz 2 stroke and go look for a new "smokeless" oil to run!

couch · Nov 26, 2013

n2otoofast4u said:
Why are you still posting on this subject. You don't own a nytro, it seems you have no interest in the subject other than to run your cok holster about these arms that you have done nothing more than see pictures of! If you think ANY arm is going to take any sort of major impact you need to put down the pipe. For fack sakes polaris and all their engineered brilliance glued their arms together! How did that work out??? Take yourself, and your boring azz 2 stroke and go look for a new "smokeless" oil to run!

Nothing is indestructible but you may want to rethink your negativity re glued components - a high quality structural adhesive (glue) properly applied will cause the surrounding structure to fail before the bond! If you are worried about the "glue" failing I suggest that you never get in a new car, modern airplane, boat or just about any other type of conveyance along with lots of steel reinforced concrete structures and such as structural adheasives are used extensively in most industries due to their ease of installation and, in many cases, superior clamping / bonding forces.

Good design is a compromise between art, design, engineering, testing and common sense.

Mountaintech · Nov 26, 2013

couch said:
Nothing is indestructible but you may want to rethink your negativity re glued components - a high quality structural adhesive (glue) properly applied will cause the surrounding structure to fail before the bond! If you are worried about the "glue" failing I suggest that you never get in a new car, modern airplane, boat or just about any other type of conveyance along with lots of steel reinforced concrete structures and such as structural adheasives are used extensively in most industries due to their ease of installation and, in many cases, superior clamping / bonding forces.

Good design is a compromise between art, design, engineering, testing and common sense.

X2. And the stuff has been around for decades. I remember well when I was introduced to composite aircraft construction, after years of working on aluminum and rivets.

n2otoofast4u · Nov 26, 2013

Although I agree it has its place, I've seen with my own eyes now 2 glued poo arms that have delamed or un-glued whatever you wish to call it. There is certainly a place in this world for this stuff and it MIGHT be on a arms, but I am not convinced that the polaris stuff is all that great.

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