A few hundred miles on stacked TDR's with stock reed stop. So far so good!
Turbo Reed Set Up volume 2
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S
What were your egt temps or afr's breeze? Maybe I am not providing enough fuel? Gus has said that to little fuel breaks reeds.
T
I agree, and think that is exactly what is trashing mine. I have been fighting the boost reference line to the EBC icing up on my kit all winter.
I hope to have finally resolved that issue, and will be putting the TDR's single stacked with OVS stops and ZR/M cages to the test once again and hope for better results if I can avoid big time lean conditions due to no boost fuel being added from time to time.
I hope to have finally resolved that issue, and will be putting the TDR's single stacked with OVS stops and ZR/M cages to the test once again and hope for better results if I can avoid big time lean conditions due to no boost fuel being added from time to time.
fyi:
M1000 reeds @1300 miles, 12 psi mostly.
My 800HO reeds lasted 600+ before that, and just put 800ho's in again.
I'm not sure why some people get MUCH worse results in reeds than I seem to... I tend to only do about 1/2 of my riding in the trees, otherwise it's climbing & jumping. I'm not much for taking a rest, I tend to keep hammering, but maybe the heat created by lower speed trees is a bigger factor than I think?
Oh yeah, I'm also a short track, but my 153 before this had even better reed life.
btw, typical egt for me is 1150 to 1220.
M1000 reeds @1300 miles, 12 psi mostly.
My 800HO reeds lasted 600+ before that, and just put 800ho's in again.
I'm not sure why some people get MUCH worse results in reeds than I seem to... I tend to only do about 1/2 of my riding in the trees, otherwise it's climbing & jumping. I'm not much for taking a rest, I tend to keep hammering, but maybe the heat created by lower speed trees is a bigger factor than I think?
Oh yeah, I'm also a short track, but my 153 before this had even better reed life.
btw, typical egt for me is 1150 to 1220.
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S
900+ miles on TDR reeds, 10-12lbs boost. IMO I think charge temps play a huge role on reed longevity, so an intercooler and cold air intake should help drastically. I am not running one, but plan to in the very short future. Also a mesh hood helps release temps the stock hood keeps in which I am running. I have noticed a significant change and haven't had a "heat soak" issue since!
T
Are guys checking reed condition from time to time, or just waiting for runability issues and then digging in there?
I wait till I can feel it... even just those little ones were pretty obvious to me.
Btw, no cold air intake, and no innerheater on my sled.
Actually just built a sectioned off area in the back corner & vented the pi$$ out of the hood sides, curious to see how this works out.
My first set of 800 ho reeds were in there for over 1000 miles they started showing a little bog on bottom pulled them and had chipped corners like backcountrys. Now I put in m1000 reeds got 450 miles at 10-12 psi on these havent looked at them but cant tell any bog yet.:face-icon-small-coo
If I would have read the reed life some of you are getting before I bought a turbo I would probably still be riding a stock machine. I hope you guys get it figured out that would suck to only get 200 miles or less.
If I would have read the reed life some of you are getting before I bought a turbo I would probably still be riding a stock machine. I hope you guys get it figured out that would suck to only get 200 miles or less.
T
I don't think my situation is the norm, which is lucky for everyone else! I am expecting to see much better longevity going forward if I have in fact fixed the issues that have led me to run the sled extremely lean under boost on a bunch of occasions.
E
From what I have heard, lean is BAD. Especially if you get a lean cough at lower rpms.....
S
Is this evidence that lean=broken reeds?
A few hundred miles on double stacked zr's and they are starting to chip. My running issue described a few posts up was the reed screws shearing off causing the bottom reeds on pto side to fall off!
T
In my opinion, lean conditions are what are causing my crappy read life. How do your fins look on the hot side of your turbo now that they made friends with some screw heads?
S
I think lean conditions do have alot to do with reed longevity. I just came back from another trip putting another 150miles on the sled with flawless performance and no adjustments on the fuel controller.
The propane parts are coming and it will be hard to ween the old girl from AV gas running as well as it does! Will definitely be doing another race gas kit on AV down the road I think.
The propane parts are coming and it will be hard to ween the old girl from AV gas running as well as it does! Will definitely be doing another race gas kit on AV down the road I think.
Well I pulled my experimental doubled up setup out at about 350 miles and they were messed up on all the corners, top and bottom, both cylinders evenly. The doubled reeds were perfect just the inner ones were erroded away. The sled did not act like reeds were even flawed. I was checking on something else and thought I'd take a look. The outer pedals were prolly still sealing some.
Makes me wonder how long my single reed setup was erroded last season. They never felt bad either....go figure?
I'm thinking of closing the stops down to about 11mm to see if something improves.
G
If you feel like trying something Tony and Breeze..
arc the reed stop,, 10 on the corners and 12 in center...airflows in a column from the round throttle body expanding as it follows the reed box shape and out the corners...hummmmmm.
or
Its got to be lean somehwere,, the carbed sleds dont see this type of quick delamination to the corner edges...or the larger diameter of the thottlebody vs a 40mm carb opening may have a lower velocity but higher pressure ?
rotary valve !!!! naaaa....lol
arc the reed stop,, 10 on the corners and 12 in center...airflows in a column from the round throttle body expanding as it follows the reed box shape and out the corners...hummmmmm.
or
Its got to be lean somehwere,, the carbed sleds dont see this type of quick delamination to the corner edges...or the larger diameter of the thottlebody vs a 40mm carb opening may have a lower velocity but higher pressure ?
rotary valve !!!! naaaa....lol
Interesting idea.
I did also have the start of some errosion right on the tip of of one of the middle petals. The stops were all at 13mm. I think ill try your staggered scheme.
I know my 5000-5500 cruise is very lean(according to the O2),but no popping, and very responsive. My big end was very safe, almost too fat.
I did also have the start of some errosion right on the tip of of one of the middle petals. The stops were all at 13mm. I think ill try your staggered scheme.
I know my 5000-5500 cruise is very lean(according to the O2),but no popping, and very responsive. My big end was very safe, almost too fat.
Well, now that I am focusing on reeds, I have been looking at them after each weekend. The sled is running fine (12-13psi) and showing no signs of reed problems. However when you look at the reeds, you would think it would be just a blubbering mess.
I did a single ZR reed test a few weeks ago(1st pic). We had some new snow so there were a few hard pulls, but for the most part it was a pretty easy two days and about a 100 miles total. The long OVS reed stops were set at 11 on the corners and 12 in the middle. This is the first pic. The single reed setup did pretty good and with good response.
Last weekend, I set up doubled up ZR reeds with stock stops set at 13mm(2nd pic). We did a pretty easy paced 60 or so miles with a stop for some 14+psi boost hill racing....maybe 3-4 runs. I did run pretty lean during those runs (13-13.2). The response with the doubled reeds is slightly off, at engaugement, but not terrible. I thought it would be better with my modified top reed?????
For my next weekend, I'm going to try M1000 reeds with the OVS stops at 12-13mm.
After that I am going to run doubled ZR reeds with no top reed mod to see if they need more tension to work better.
Now keep in mind, the sled was running fine with both of these reed setups(in the pics), so I wouldn't normally think of pulling them. I'm just trying to learn something.
EDIT: My buddy brought up a great point, that might be part of my problem. These reeds were used and not new. They looked great going in but it isn't certain if they were affected by age or ??? prior to testing.....might have to start all over! :face-icon-small-fro
I did a single ZR reed test a few weeks ago(1st pic). We had some new snow so there were a few hard pulls, but for the most part it was a pretty easy two days and about a 100 miles total. The long OVS reed stops were set at 11 on the corners and 12 in the middle. This is the first pic. The single reed setup did pretty good and with good response.
Last weekend, I set up doubled up ZR reeds with stock stops set at 13mm(2nd pic). We did a pretty easy paced 60 or so miles with a stop for some 14+psi boost hill racing....maybe 3-4 runs. I did run pretty lean during those runs (13-13.2). The response with the doubled reeds is slightly off, at engaugement, but not terrible. I thought it would be better with my modified top reed?????
For my next weekend, I'm going to try M1000 reeds with the OVS stops at 12-13mm.
After that I am going to run doubled ZR reeds with no top reed mod to see if they need more tension to work better.
Now keep in mind, the sled was running fine with both of these reed setups(in the pics), so I wouldn't normally think of pulling them. I'm just trying to learn something.
EDIT: My buddy brought up a great point, that might be part of my problem. These reeds were used and not new. They looked great going in but it isn't certain if they were affected by age or ??? prior to testing.....might have to start all over! :face-icon-small-fro
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T
I am about to pull my M/ZR cages (thank tonysnoo) with TDR singles and about 300-400 miles to check them out. I finally got to log some miles on a set with no lean issues. Ill make sure to post up the results. Been a while since the reed scheemin' thread had some action. I have also never "felt" any runability issues the reed failure on my sets with eroded tips.
Interesting seeing some damage to the upper reeds..... I have yet to experience that.
Interesting seeing some damage to the upper reeds..... I have yet to experience that.
G
Tony, man you sure do work like hell to make things better for the group.
Not so sure on the used thing, never have put NEW reeds in. always bought take out stuff..lol
We all tend to get laxidaisicle when we ride, leanspots that dont really hurt performance are ignored..these lean spots AND turbulence and blowdown time all put heat back into the cases..( fire more so than heat ).
There is only one way to get around it..CARBS LOL !! just joking ,,easy now..:crutch:
One big no no is reed petal overhang.. if they hang past the sealing edge at the tip they will deteriorate for sure...
how bout some plywood ?? naaaa....
We have all summer to make some prototype stuff ,, I promise to have time and will make some for testing...just for you guys...I have nointerest in these damn arctic horses !! well, only the twins the triples I sitll love..who wants a gonzo triple turbo for the hills ?? we can make a sweet 400 at 14.7 on the good old crusty 1004 triple...
Gus
Not so sure on the used thing, never have put NEW reeds in. always bought take out stuff..lol
We all tend to get laxidaisicle when we ride, leanspots that dont really hurt performance are ignored..these lean spots AND turbulence and blowdown time all put heat back into the cases..( fire more so than heat ).
There is only one way to get around it..CARBS LOL !! just joking ,,easy now..:crutch:
One big no no is reed petal overhang.. if they hang past the sealing edge at the tip they will deteriorate for sure...
how bout some plywood ?? naaaa....
We have all summer to make some prototype stuff ,, I promise to have time and will make some for testing...just for you guys...I have nointerest in these damn arctic horses !! well, only the twins the triples I sitll love..who wants a gonzo triple turbo for the hills ?? we can make a sweet 400 at 14.7 on the good old crusty 1004 triple...
Gus
I do know that I run lean on the bottom at 5000 to 6000 rpm. I'm often seeing 15-16+ on the O2 and occassionally all bars --- (over limit?) It's so rippy and never seems to get hot, that I quit worrying about burning down. That may well be where I'm erroding these reeds????
I ran the whole last season on a used set of stock, non-HO reeds. They were hardly any worse than the ones pictured above when I checked em. All the same setup this year except for maybe allowing the midrange lean O2 to not drive my tuning.
CARBS are good.....may have an opportunity to play with em again some day :rockon:
