CPC weights vs. Cat weights

pj8556 · Jan 12, 2009

have a set of 65g adjustable cutler weights and was wondering the differences in actual weight vs. Cat weights. Meaning, if I am currently running 68g Cat weights and the rpms are good, what should I run for weight in the cutler?? and where should i put the weight.

spring snow hero · Jan 12, 2009

total weight is going to be the same or real close to where you are. putting the weight in the tip makes them more agressive on the top end and hold the rpms down. light tips tend to be more agressive and rev more on top.

constructionLake · Jan 12, 2009

I've read that the cutlers run 2grams heavy, so if you ran 70g cat you would run 68g cutler.
However,
I found that they run identical, and I load the heal only.

MNM7141 · Jan 12, 2009

I've found the CPC weights to run a little heavy - I can't tell you exactly how much because I was changing othere things as well but 1 - 2 g's wouldn't suprise me. Their shift curve seems a little more agressive (a tad flatter than stock) which may account for some of this. If for an M I would deifinatley NOT put weight in the tip - or very little weight in the tip. Most of the weight should be in the heal. Also - play around with the postioning of the weight in the heal. Keep in mind that if you screw the weight all the way in you are almost 3/4 of the way to the tip which is basically at your full shift point. I have my weight closer to the heel / middle of the weight. Spend time tuning these weights and you will have a well dialed in sled. Good Luck!! Paul

phatty · Jan 12, 2009

last i checked, 68g was 68g and 67g was 67g regardless of who made it. Put the weights on the scales and you will find that most weights will be off by milligrams...

Im sure we could get into the physics of rotating mass, and surface area/distrubution of weight, but for the most part moot points.

i loaded mine 65-75g up with the 1/4" x 1/2" (tip) and 1/4" x 1/4" (heel) which is right around 68g weights.

Also for anyone interested, i have a set of 70-80g adjustable CPC weights i will sell for $100. They have 100 miles on them...

Big Kahuna · Jan 12, 2009

What keeps the weights in position once they are threaded in? It looks like there is some kind of loctite, or other compound on the threaded weights when they are new. What is that compound? And does it need to be reapplied when the weights are removed and then reused?

MNM7141 · Jan 12, 2009

Phatty - not going to argue with you but the shift profile of a weight can definately make it "act" heavier or lighter. You can put a notch or tuck the weight such that a M1000 won't even pull the weight!! How much a weight weighs is only part of the equation - you HAVE to look at the shift curve and the off-set to determine how it will perform. Later. Paul

phatty · Jan 12, 2009

MNM7141 said:
Phatty - not going to argue with you but the shift profile of a weight can definately make it "act" heavier or lighter. You can put a notch or tuck the weight such that a M1000 won't even pull the weight!! How much a weight weighs is only part of the equation - you HAVE to look at the shift curve and the off-set to determine how it will perform. Later. Paul

hence my statement about rotating mass (the idea that weight distribution and specific placement over a surface area under rotation could produce more energy?)... I still believe that staying with a 68g weight moving 1 gram from heel to tip is moot. especially in a 4" circle at 8000 RPMs. Once the weight is out into max position at max RPMs the weight is the same regardless of where it initially weighed more (heel or tip) How could you measure the difference in a real world test? "feel" is about all you could say because i doubt you would get 1 foot higher on the hill... i dunno know for sure and i am open to math to prove me wrong

Would be kind of fun to test one day, try cutler, factory, MTX 68g weights on three seperate pulls.

but weight for weight on a scale 68g will still be 68g no matter if you redistrubute weight to the heel or tip, thats all i was really trying to say. Good discussion though!:face-icon-small-hap

mwboondockers · Jan 12, 2009

Cutler weights

I have 65 gram Cutler weights in my M1000. I put the shortest screw all the way in the weight [1/4x1/4 I think] I was running 7300-7400 RPM's at 9000-11000 ft. But it felt real flat but would still pull good. Does this seem normal. This is my first Cat I am used to a 800 Polaris Turning 8200 RPM's. If I put the weight out more how do you know if they are even or does it not matter for balance. Heading back to Togwotee next week, would like to try a different set-up. Thanks

mrquick68 · Jan 12, 2009

sounds like you got the tips loaded if you are running the weight all the way in. Cat's don't like heavy tips. Keep the weight in the heel.

pj8556 · Jan 12, 2009

so let me get this straight, a guy can thread the screws into the weight only partially??? (not seated??) what keeps the weight from threading out??

MTm7 · Jan 12, 2009

mrquick68 said:
sounds like you got the tips loaded if you are running the weight all the way in. Cat's don't like heavy tips. Keep the weight in the heel.

what do you mean by keep the weight in the heel? screw the weight in the heel until it is flush?? mine is currently screwed all the way down. will i see a change in max rpm's??

SaberKitty · Jan 12, 2009

Yes - Partial is possible due to the Loctite on the threads. And to answer an earlier question, the Loctite should be reapplied if the weight is removed and then reinstalled.

Big Kahuna · Jan 12, 2009

Thanks for the clarification Saberkitty. I just installed a set of CPC weights (65-75 g) and am excited to try them out this weekend. I will take a tube of loctite with me so i can apply a drop on each set screw before i reapply.

Vern · Jan 12, 2009

i have been playing with my cutlers alot the last few weeks in my m7. i loaded them with the littlest screw in as far as it will go then the rest at the heal and this gave my m7 ALOT better out of the whole and on and off the throttle performance. however i noticed that if i made a good long pull like climbing a fairly long hill wide open for a bit my rpms seemed to slowly rise and when i come back down i can smell burning belt pretty bad. im no clutching genious but im assuming this is because when its shifting up with the light tips theres not enough squeeze on the belt in the higher rpms and its starting to slip. so im gonna pull the set screws out and throw the next size bigger set screw in the tip and see if it helps.

spring snow hero · Jan 12, 2009

vern, did you get some marks on one of your clutches?

could be slipping or yu might need a different spring.

MTm7 · Jan 12, 2009

Vern said:
i have been playing with my cutlers alot the last few weeks in my m7. i loaded them with the littlest screw in as far as it will go then the rest at the heal and this gave my m7 ALOT better out of the whole and on and off the throttle performance. however i noticed that if i made a good long pull like climbing a fairly long hill wide open for a bit my rpms seemed to slowly rise and when i come back down i can smell burning belt pretty bad. im no clutching genious but im assuming this is because when its shifting up with the light tips theres not enough squeeze on the belt in the higher rpms and its starting to slip. so im gonna pull the set screws out and throw the next size bigger set screw in the tip and see if it helps.

what screw were you running in the heel?

Vern · Jan 12, 2009

i got a mark on the moveable sheave of the primary right at the top but it only goes about half way around the clutch which i thought was weird. and if it matters im running the stock yellow white primary spring, m8 orange sec. spring with shift assist and stock 36 helix.

as for the weights, i bought them when i was trying out some twins which required lighter weights so mine are the ones that range from 60 to 70 grams. i don't remember exactly which screws i have in them, im pretty sure the second to the longest and maybe the 1/2 inch one, i know between the two in the heel and the little one in the tip it was right around 66 grams.

i know this might sound light as stock the efi m7s run 68g but mine is the carbed version which comes from the factory with 67g plus my sled is geared down two sizes from stock and ive heard that sometimes requires lighter weight. motor wise my sleds stock with a RKT modified stock head and i ride 6-9000 ft.

im gonna try pullin the small .75 gram screw from the tip and throw the next size up one in and see what happens. i know with the current setup my sled will kill both the efi m7s in my group out of the whole and pulls like a whole different sled, i just gotta get the wide open thing figured out.

spring snow hero · Jan 12, 2009

if you streaked way out at the end of your shift have a peek at your c to c distance.

Vern · Jan 12, 2009

spring snow hero said:
if you streaked way out at the end of your shift have a peek at your c to c distance.

the other day while cleaning my clutches i slapped my alignment bar on it and everything seemed in check both side to side and c to c, well atleast with the notches cut into the alignment bar. i'll have to double check. but is it normal to have the black mark go only half way around the clutch? just seems kinda odd to me.

p.s. i noticed that my sled is missing that little rubber piece thats wedged between the motor plate and the DD. im assumng this is suppost to be a torque stop but does it make that much difference without it? i wouldn't think it would be very supportive just being kinda wedged in there but if it has a big effect may be i ought to find one.

CPC weights vs. Cat weights

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