Broken Heim Joint

christopher · Mar 23, 2012

pylon said:
its too bad this happened . i have a few days on my skinz front end and love it . the joints are all pretty big piles of junk though , there are much better heim joints out there and available .Going to order some next week then hope it snows so i can see if i can bend them up just like i did with my skinz joints

I agree. It's a real shame.
My A-Arms will go back to skins a the end of the season for the 5/8ths upgrade. Hopefully that will resolve the problem for the long term.

Have to give them credit for doing all they could to keep me out on the snow though. They went the extra mile on my behalf and that makes a big difference to me.

Problems will happen to all of us.
Skins showed their colors. Y getting me the parts ASAP

Sent from my Apple iPhone 4S using the AVOW TapaTalk app.

BigFish BC · Mar 23, 2012

you left revy the day i got here i could have lent you one of my spares

M5- · Mar 24, 2012

Seems like an appropriate time to take the high road.

M5

summitboy · Mar 24, 2012

So you can't say nothing bad about Skinz even after you drove all the way up to Revy for your dream trip and then the junk breaks even after you upgraded the 1/2 heims. Thats commitment right there ! How many trips have been wrecked this year ? Nothing like being the test pilots for the aftermarket, its not just Skinz ! :face-icon-small-con:face-icon-small-con:face-icon-small-dis:face-icon-small-dis

paulharris · Mar 24, 2012

bottom line: the 1/2 are undersized for the application and they will break. it doesent matter what brand or what material that skinz updated them to. ALL of these need to be upgraded to 5/8 or else a lot of other peoples trips will be ruined just like yours. have broken 2 of the 1/2 inch "updated joints" this season.

towerrigger · Mar 24, 2012

Everybody that received the first few batches of a-arms with the 1/2 heims were offered to send them in for the upgrade of the 5/8 heim joints. It was up to the customer to decide if they were going to keep running the updated 1/2 or send them in for the upgrade. I think Skinz has handled this better than any other aftermarket company would have. Not having any aftermarket front end on my sled currently, as I look from the outside, Skinz gets my vote.

Zipperno · Mar 24, 2012

The mistake was to install 1/2 heims from the start. Skinz has been helpfull and stood behind their product after that. But the mistake was already made.... Just saying.

mtnxr · Mar 24, 2012

I think I would steal the stock a-arms off your backup sled and go have fun without worry....just sayin:face-icon-small-ton

jrusher · Mar 24, 2012

Wow another failure and a trip somewhat ruined.. Hopefully no one gets hurt cause of there under engineering! Ive been leary about my z-bros upper joints but all is well after 1000 km in the hills..

paulharris · Mar 24, 2012

towerrigger said:
Everybody that received the first few batches of a-arms with the 1/2 heims were offered to send them in for the upgrade of the 5/8 heim joints. It was up to the customer to decide if they were going to keep running the updated 1/2 or send them in for the upgrade. I think Skinz has handled this better than any other aftermarket company would have. Not having any aftermarket front end on my sled currently, as I look from the outside, Skinz gets my vote.

Well thats easy to say when you don't own the front end and haven't had a trip ruined by this. Skinz reassured its customers that the 1/2 "updated joints" would be fine. when they say the 1/2 would be fine i think most customers didnt want to tear their front end off in the middle of a short riding season to send them to skinz. Most people were waiting until the snow was gone and then send it in for the 5/8 update. I agree that skinz customer service has been good in dealing with this. BUT, i feel that they should have made the 5/8 update mandatory rather than misleading people into thinking the "updated" 1/2 joints would be fine

ruffryder · Mar 24, 2012

paulharris said:
Well thats easy to say when you don't own the front end and haven't had a trip ruined by this. Skinz reassured its customers that the 1/2 "updated joints" would be fine. when they say the 1/2 would be fine i think most customers didnt want to tear their front end off in the middle of a short riding season to send them to skinz. Most people were waiting until the snow was gone and then send it in for the 5/8 update. I agree that skinz customer service has been good in dealing with this. BUT, i feel that they should have made the 5/8 update mandatory rather than misleading people into thinking the "updated" 1/2 joints would be fine

The interesting thing will be once the ball joints are updated to 5/8" will the next weak point be the fault of skis as well?

Something has to give....

I wonder if part of the problem could be that the skins a-arms make the subframe / a-arm system so strong that the weak link is the tie rod

paulharris · Mar 24, 2012

ruffryder said:
The interesting thing will be once the ball joints are updated to 5/8" will the next weak point be the fault of skis as well?

Something has to give....

I wonder if part of the problem could be that the skins a-arms make the subframe / a-arm system so strong that the weak link is the tie rod

What people that don't own the skinz front end are having a hard time understanding is that these joints are breaking at random times like riding 2mph over a log in the trail!!! yes its understandable if you smash a huge rock at 30mph that something will break. But crawling over a log in the trail? something is wrong.

pelon · Mar 24, 2012

Sh&^ does--- but sometimes should not happen

Man if no one else apologizes for that breaking on you------ I will.

That sucks bigtime!!

motojunkie101 · Mar 24, 2012

paulharris said:
What people that don't own the skinz front end are having a hard time understanding is that these joints are breaking at random times like riding 2mph over a log in the trail!!! yes its understandable if you smash a huge rock at 30mph that something will break. But crawling over a log in the trail? something is wrong.

That makes my little brain think that there is some movement in the joint (flexing might be a better term) and over time the metal just gets weak and pops. Sort of like bending a piece of wire back and forth until it breaks in half. Hopefully the 5/8ths joints will work a little better.

M5- · Mar 24, 2012

Here's the deal. I tried to point this out months ago but everybody jumped down my throat, so live and learn fellas. If you take the time to read the specs I posted months ago you will see that a 1/2" rod end has a strength somewhere around 22000 lbs and a 5/8" is around 25000 lbs give or take. These numbers are for TENSION/COMPRESSION applications. The strength in shear is only 10-15% of that number so in fact this type of end isn't really designed to work that way, its supposed to be used in tension and compression as in a tie rod. The 5/8 will be the bare minimum but they will in all likelyhood fail as well over time. Ask me how I know. As was mentioned they move back and forth till they break, its not the log or the trailer door or the rock or whatever its just the wrong application for the part.

M5

judger101 · Mar 24, 2012

so are all the new skinz front ends coming with the 5/8 heim?

paulharris · Mar 25, 2012

M5- said:
Here's the deal. I tried to point this out months ago but everybody jumped down my throat, so live and learn fellas. If you take the time to read the specs I posted months ago you will see that a 1/2" rod end has a strength somewhere around 22000 lbs and a 5/8" is around 25000 lbs give or take. These numbers are for TENSION/COMPRESSION applications. The strength in shear is only 10-15% of that number so in fact this type of end isn't really designed to work that way, its supposed to be used in tension and compression as in a tie rod. The 5/8 will be the bare minimum but they will in all likelyhood fail as well over time. Ask me how I know. As was mentioned they move back and forth till they break, its not the log or the trailer door or the rock or whatever its just the wrong application for the part.

M5

good point. however, the timbersled front end uses the 5/8 joint in the lower arm. i have a nytro with that timbersled front end and i have never broke one or never heard of them breaking. perhaps its something to do with the forward angle of the arms that puts extra stress on them????

christopher · Mar 25, 2012

Box of replacements arrived yesterday while we were riding on the pemberton ice cap. Heading down to the trailer to get them swapped in now before today's ride.

Sent from my Apple iPhone 4S using the AVOW TapaTalk app.

christopher · Mar 25, 2012

Just read all of the comments here.
Will add my 2 cents.

Yes, Skins clearly blew it with the half inch heim joint design. They thought the upgraded half inch joints would solve the problem and they didn't.

We were all given the opportunity to send in the a-arms and have them tapped out for 5/8ths and most of us choose not to so we would not loose out on a couple weeks of mid-winter riding. I sure can't fault skin. For MY personal choices.

All things considered they did all they could in my behalf and I give them full credit for doing so. As for me, my trip was. It ruined. That's why you. Ring a spare sled on a major trip, stuff happens and you plan for it.

When the season is over I will tear down my sled and ship the a-arms back for updating and we will see what happens next season.

Meanwhile.
Have we seen any random failures being reported in the 5/8ths versions yet???

Sent from my Apple iPhone 4S using the AVOW TapaTalk app.

M5- · Mar 25, 2012

Chris you must have the patience of a saint between being the test mule for MPI and now Skinz, Summitboys point through all this and he is 100% correct is that ALL these companies not just SPG come to market with inadequate testing, sure they may give great support when their product $hits the bed but when you spend thousands on your sled you should have no down days unless you smoke a tree or something that is truly your fault. Yah so last year a few guys rode the front end and clipped a few shrubs and it held up, big deal, thats not a test, its a joke. Oh yah I forgot it was a bad batch of rod ends. You have spent probably 20K on your sled and you need to bring a spare, really think about that statement it's insane. Oh yah BTW 100+ days on my stock front end, just sayin.

M5

Broken Heim Joint

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