2016 and beyond...what should Cat do??

M8onEdge · Apr 25, 2014

Ran into an acquaintance that has ties to Cat reps. Cat rep was quizzing him re: what he recommended for changes to the Cats going forward. Apparently sno check numbers are pretty dismal for cat. Personally, having owned all 3 current models I prefer the cat for an all around package. What would you change if you were Cat? The following seems obvious to me:
- Skis (maybe 2% of people like the too narrow stock skis so this should be easy to fix).
- Weight - seems like a no brainer. No matter how well you move, if you're the fattest chick at the dance people will look elsewhere. Assume the Pro is 45 lighter, if cat could at least cut this in half I think the "heavy" label, which is more perception than handling, would fade away. Belt drive?
- Clutching - not sure it's fixed. I grenaded a belt at about 450 on the '14. Dangerous situation actually. Clutches still too hot, losing performance in really tough conditions. If I move on this will be the biggest reason.
- Cleaner, more efficient 800 akin to the 600? My mileage sucks re: the Pro (usually 2 gals. per ride). Doo actually sucked if you were in tough conditions but few realize that.
Frankly, most of this seems pretty fixable. If it were fixed, I'd stick around.

boondocker97 · Apr 25, 2014

The other things to add to the list for me are better fitment of the body work up front so you don't have to silicone the gaps, narrower body work in the side panel area, and tubular or extruded style running boards. Better incentives would help out their snow checks. You got a 3 year warranty and $300 in accessories this year, which is better than nothing, but not nearly what Polaris was offering.

av8er · Apr 25, 2014

cat needs to do a few things

1. do a good belt drive system with deep cogs like the CMX, C3, or Tkill system, 2.then they need to shave off a solid 20-25 lbs, x2 on the footboards, 3. and then either a Suzuki built 925 or 950 with about 185 HP Stock. I rode the 2015's and the rear skid is alot better than it has been. I personally would like to see a factory 174 -3" like Skidoo's T3-174 with a dry weight of about 450 lbs.

nosajlleb · Apr 25, 2014

I think they have punted the mountain segment to BDX and anyone else that wants what they don't offer. After seeing the shop at Black Diamond and what was setting in there it seems to me there's some cooperation between TRF and Cannon Falls. If they can get there bodywork to seal up and get the skill center kids outta of the wiring dept. I could see looking again. I've heard rumblings of a new chassis so I'm sure they've been testing it for 20 years or so by now.

bradburck · Apr 25, 2014

Agree with all above, things I'd like to see-

Weight is king, get that down and it would make a HUGE difference.

1- Get a belt drive- that is the best kind of weight off the sled for sure.

2- Running boards need to be better

3- MUCH better fitment for side panels, make getting into the engine compartment easier for the love of mercy.

4- work on a lighter, rebuildable primary that revs quicker.

5- Wider skis that are just as light- I love my grippers on my sled.

6- Large spindles don't need to be in the mtns honestly... get caught on too many things.

7- Lower the damn steering post and move it forward- it is much easier to go higher on the post in the aftermarket then lower and it is easier to come back with the post then forward- start the sled in the most difficult position to create and let people decide from there.

Too me the biggest difference between my sled stock and it modded is the weight, it makes it easier to ride, easier to ride hard longer, get out of the snow easier, gets unstuck easier, is easier on the rest of the sled and creates a more maneuverable sled. I continue to be able to put my 'old' modded 12 into every place and more then the newer sleds, but I got a killer deal on it and put a ton of work into it.

Dream sled for me from cat in 16' is an m8000 162" 3" at like 430 dry with the suitcase can- puts it at 415 with an aftermarket can. Get the price in line with the Pro as well.

That is doable for sure if they commit. Make it a mountain specific sled and do 1/2 the things that all of us do to them anyways, that is what Polaris is doing and it is obviously working, look at their snow-check numbers. Also need to offer more options at sno-check as well, shock packages, tracks, wraps, etc. People don't all want a sled that looks just like everyone else's.'

My .02

CO 2.0 · Apr 25, 2014

Gripper type Skis, narrow boards/panels, XM type spindle setup for Mtns, LW can, Better clutches, HCR steering post option on Sno pros and limiteds. That's what I'd like to see stock from Cat.

leadfoot33 · Apr 25, 2014

better skis, lose some weight, better running boards
(they arent bad but can be better)
more efficient motor ctec800 ( im assuming this is in the works)
and a 3" option. and of course better fitment of body panels, (we heat ours up with some weight on each end and they fit like they are supposed to then.

oldsno · Apr 25, 2014

smilin'

reply to m8 on edge: come on bro come back to the dark side of consistent performance the deeper the better-or just put more polaris parts on it ha ha....................I'ts all good the proclimb really performs after changing parts and a lot of tinkering I have to rub-I've done none of that for three sleds now just food for though owned a lot of good cats though:face-icon-small-ton

MT Backcountry · Apr 25, 2014

Belts are

We rode for 3 days with Amber Holt in Montana for 2015 demo rides and had 0 belt issues for 3 days and 2700 miles on 9 different Arctic Cat sled. From a M6000 up to M8000's and even the M7000. All Good

powwow · Apr 25, 2014

Get out of the clouds and onto the snow

Like everyone says, Skinny light, ready to ride package. Not having to put on alot of aftermarket to make it work good in the mountains. MOUNTAIN SPECIFIC is what I want. There are crossovers for the other stuff. Fix the bloody driveline. I snowchecked a pro (first polaris) because it is set up for mountain riding.
So much feedback such as " Its a nice machine" hesitatation "once you learn to ride around it" They need to have something that works well with the rider not the rider works well with the machine! I know there are alot of riders that would go back to cat if they offered a more specific package. 3" is inevitable, but not really anything to make me want one as all 3 will have them on soon enough. Price would help alot too.

Everyone has made something that has turned off consumers from there product at one time or another the true test is if they can rebound from that or not. Suck it up, revamp, and get back into the market!

As long as they have the proclimb they will never get the marketshare they should want. No way no how unless the other 2 somehow bankrupt themselves!
Long time Cat rider, still love my M8, now trying a Poo, tried to like the Cat really tried.
Oh and the perfection video, really shows how far they are out of touch with the customers as they are screaming for changes. Atleast give them a set of skis.

Thunder101 · Apr 25, 2014

The PC is a good performing sled but for me it needs so many little things that I know will add up to a fair chunk on $$ . So probably no change till 16-17 :face-icon-small-sho
But I agree with all the statements made above.
Post forward and fixed with a riser and let us adjust from there.
Belt dr will drop lb
Panels fit like "THE WORST EVER"
The hood is to much of a drag to take on and off when your wanting to check something ect
Clutches ,,, I have a 14 clutches on my 12 and everything has been good, but I do think the secondary needs some help. My 11 has a P85 and its a WAY better drive clutch.
Boards are terrible , as in poor design, they are weak.
The 800 is the best game in town and I love modding 2smokes so I dont want change there.

Bacon · Apr 25, 2014

This is all fine and good, but maybe Cat should have listened to some people when they were designing this sled in the first place. It has turned into a pretty good sled, but could have been awesome in 2012, and we wouldn't be talking about sales share. Instead of listening to their mountain guys, they fired them. I think Cat could think they could do no wrong. That didn't work too well. Now they have to climb their way out of a hole they dug themselves into.

powwow · Apr 25, 2014

Not hearing to much about perfection. I think they need a dictionary. I believe that the success of the m-series sleds had gone to there heads. How bad does the sales have to drop before they realize they had made some mistakes. Take notes from Polaris, change the name, some plastics, market the $$$hit out of it. It works!! Please Cat if your listening No bendy twisty things or a 16" track. The cat many look wide, but that xm is like straddling an oil drum.
I think with the proclimb reputation even if they made it into the best mountain sled, it won't sell well. Time to move on, damage has been done, consumers forget real quick if you create something they want!

M8onEdge · Apr 26, 2014

powwow said:
I think with the proclimb reputation even if they made it into the best mountain sled, it won't sell well. Time to move on, damage has been done, consumers forget real quick if you create something they want!

I guess the premise with the original post was what could cat do to fix the proclimb platform v.s. starting over. I tend to agree there is enough negative associated with it now they would be smart marketers to move on in '16 v.s. just refining...and move on with the mentality that weight does matter (do they get this now?). If any of the big 3 do something dramatic in '16 it's game over for the current models e.g., imagine a near 400 lb pro with mid 160 ponies...looks like a real possibility. Something like that would probably overcome the nasty poo taste left in my mouth from playing with too many edge crankshafts. To compete with that Cat has to be in the 430 range and have an 800 without a bunch of baggage (uh, do you fix clutching problems by gearing down???).

ezra · Apr 26, 2014

fire the current ceo put darling in his place.
start re funding the race programs
start re funding more pro back country riders.
start listening to what all your riders are telling U
the issues started from putting ceo in who could care less about the product and everything about cost cutting.
Claude Jorden will never make the snomobile of fame

Dam Dave · Apr 26, 2014

ezra said:
fire the current ceo put darling in his place.
start re funding the race programs
start re funding more pro back country riders.
start listening to what all your riders are telling U
the issues started from putting ceo in who could care less about the product and everything about cost cutting.
Claude Jorden will never make the snomobile of fame

The current sno cross race team budget is HUGE, they dont need more money for Tucker

Dam Dave · Apr 26, 2014

Lose some weight out of hood or design a new one
Light weight stock Can
Move steering post FWD 2 in
3 in track(already done )
DO NOT make it so light I have to buy kits to reinforce the tunnel so I can ride it
Seat is too soft, use foam from M sled
put some real storage in seat like the Cat accessory but more storage

Leave the engine alone until a new one is required for EPA, best engine on the mountain and some of you want to throw it away!!

I ran the stock skis most of this year and they are not as bad as some make them out to be, easy to bury them for sidehilling and powder turns

Its a very good sled now, just needs more refinement, a lot of the folks complaining have never spent much time on one in the mountains:face-icon-small-sho yes I said that:face-icon-small-coo

some real weight off the front would be nice though

rmscustom · Apr 26, 2014

You guys forget its a flatland sled first market (70% of sleds sold).

When my friend that owns a AC dealership asked why I switched to Polaris I told him I'd buy a Cat again when they made a mountain sled,,, he passed that comment along to his rep who replied by saying "We're not competing in the mountain segment anymore... That was after the disaster of the 12 PC release and I think Cat is now finding out a lot of the bleed green folks weren't so faithful and now they're feeling the pain.

Reeb · Apr 26, 2014

Dam Dave said:
The current sno cross race team budget is HUGE, they dont need more money for Tucker

That's not even the "Factory" team either.

Dave are you from this Montrose?

clutch · Apr 26, 2014

I don't understand why everybody says move the post forward. When you are going downhill in slow technical off camber through the trees stuff, that makes the sled very unforgiving and it goes where it wants to instead of where you want it to. If you have to reach way forward of where your feet are it makes it much harder to pull the sled to where you want it. Going up hill under power it feels pretty good that way, but that's it. Why do you think everyone thinks the Polaris is so good in the technical stuff. If you think it's better that way, ride an xp for a while. Just my opinion of course. Better plastic set up for the side panels and hood, better skis, and loose some weight off the front. This sled already works very well when the suspension and clutching is set up. Oh the stupid oil tank need to be changed to something you can see through.:face-icon-small-win

2016 and beyond...what should Cat do??

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