how to reudce ski pressure on MH

yukondood · Mar 25, 2012

spent the weekend riding set up snow with 4-6 inches of fresh. I am exhausted and wonder if less ski pressure would help the cause. I am running a gen ii with promoto centre keel and outside runners. same issue with or without centre keel, better sidehilling without keel. Would like to test with less skie pressure....

teal_210 · Mar 26, 2012

After one ride on my honda, I took the shaft that replaces the shock out, and put a shorter one in. A 1\2" shorter is all you need. Everyone of my friends that have ridden my bike like this has done the same thing to their bike.

yukondood · Mar 26, 2012

interesting

is this a shaft timbersled sells?

teal_210 · Mar 26, 2012

Depending on what bike you have, Timbersled may have a shorter one that you can buy. I'm using a Rmz shaft on my Crf, it just happened to work out for me since I have a fit kit for both bikes. Other guys have had a new shaft made, one guy just drilled another hole in his... Lots of ways to go about it.
It takes weight off the ski, and lowers the seat height so the bike becomes more manageable. For me it seems to have reduced the number of times that I go over the bars in a day. In my opinion it adds to the fun factor as well, I can lift the ski 2-3' in the air on demand. Which is not a good thing if you're a climber though.

Other options to reduce ski pressure would be to let the limiter strap out, and/or remove spacers from the rear scissor for less coupling. You could add air pressure to the front shock and reduce it in the rear shock... There is a lot of adjustment in the rear.

funjunkie · Mar 27, 2012

Just take the 1/4'' shimes out of your rear coupling slide and put them on top. It will do the same thing. It will lower the back some and put more presure on the front of the track and take some presure of the ski.

yukondood · Mar 27, 2012

shims

Funjunke- kit arrived with the shims on the lower end. I have tried the shocks with more air in front and less in rear, no change. Limiter strap will only effect when acceleratiing, as it is set right now it is loose when sitting on bike.

My try shortening rod.
Thanks guys, don't get me wrong this thing is awesome and I would recommend a MT Horse to anyone asking but a little more trails manners would be nice.

Timbersled · Mar 27, 2012

strut rod length

Changing the strut rod length will void your warranty and is not recommended by Timbersled. The strut rod length is crtitical and has been set up by Timbersled to insure the proper geometry of the kit. Changing the length can adversely affect the overall design. So do so at your own risk.

Posted by Dave @ Timbersled

Mtn. Muncher · Mar 27, 2012

As Dave said do not shorten the strut rod.
I have messed with this a lot and have come to this conclusion.
Remove all coupling shims out of the underside of the back arm slide mechanism and install one ¼” thick shim on each side on the top side of the slide mechanism (under the Alu. washer). This will allow the suspension to be more independent through the bumps making it feel lighter and less pushy and the shim on the top will lower the seat height and also pre load the front track shock more. I would not run more than 85 psi in the front float shock or more than ½” pre load on the coil shocks at full extension. If you like how it feels and would like to take it one step further, then remove the ¼” shim that you put on the top and replace it with a ½” shim.

teal_210 · Mar 27, 2012

Dave or Allan,
Can you elaborate some more on what negative effects shortening the strut has on the kit? My intent was not as much to change to geometry of the kit as much as it was to change the geometry of my bike... The crf's have a stink bug stance, so in my mind, shortening the strut is the similar to installing a lowering link for the dirt set up.

I was not happy with the handeling of the crf mt horse until I did this (changing the shims around did not do what I wanted), however I was happy with the rmz that I had last year.

I appreciate you input, but I have to ask why, you make it seem as though shortening the strut with be death to the kit, but I have only seen a positive effect.

Thank you!

Revv Up · Mar 27, 2012

In my limited experience....
My kit came to me used (with the wrong strut rod) only 7/16" shy of what it should be ........but it kicks my front end out like a 70's chopper and handles like crap, constantly trying to wash out. Mind you this is on a KTM with no shock linkage so that small amount is more critical.

Meanwhile I am going back to factory numbers after riding 2 other KTM's and the handling from their bikes to mine is night and day. It was nice to have the lower seat but not worth it.

teal_210 said:
Dave or Allan,
Can you elaborate some more on what negative effects shortening the strut has on the kit? My intent was not as much to change to geometry of the kit as much as it was to change the geometry of my bike... The crf's have a stink bug stance, so in my mind, shortening the strut is the similar to installing a lowering link for the dirt set up.

I was not happy with the handeling of the crf mt horse until I did this (changing the shims around did not do what I wanted), however I was happy with the rmz that I had last year.

I appreciate you input, but I have to ask why, you make it seem as though shortening the strut with be death to the kit, but I have only seen a positive effect.

Thank you!

Mtn. Muncher · Mar 27, 2012

teal_210 said:
Dave or Allan,
Can you elaborate some more on what negative effects shortening the strut has on the kit? My intent was not as much to change to geometry of the kit as much as it was to change the geometry of my bike... The crf's have a stink bug stance, so in my mind, shortening the strut is the similar to installing a lowering link for the dirt set up.

I was not happy with the handeling of the crf mt horse until I did this (changing the shims around did not do what I wanted), however I was happy with the rmz that I had last year.

I appreciate you input, but I have to ask why, you make it seem as though shortening the strut with be death to the kit, but I have only seen a positive effect.

Thank you!

By shortening the strut rod by a ¼” it probably will not hurt anything but if you were to re drill a hole in a existing strut rod it would shorten it too much. By doing this it will lower the swing arm pin location and make the bike frame angle versus snow bike kit misaligned. This will point the forks outward and also lower the drive axle location, pushing it lower to the ground. This will make the axle more exposed and is more likely to hit the bumps as a direct blow to the drive system. It also will cam the back of the track off the ground throwing out the geometry of the back suspension. That is why it is best to lower the bike with the suspension shims that are provided. The other thing that will happen is it will loosen the chain and most likely will not have the adjustment to make it tight and prevent it from rubbing the track.

teal_210 · Mar 27, 2012

Mtn. Muncher said:
By shortening the strut rod by a ¼” it probably will not hurt anything but if you were to re drill a hole in a existing strut rod it would shorten it too much. By doing this it will lower the swing arm pin location and make the bike frame angle verses snow bike kit not strait with each other. This will point the forks outward and also lower the drive axel location, pushing it lower to the ground. This will make the axel more exposed and is more likely to hit the bumps as a direct blow to the drive system. It also will cam the back of the track off the ground throwing out the geometry of the back suspension. That is why it is best to lower the bike with the suspension shims that are provided. The other thing that will happen is it will loosen the chain and most likely will not have the adjustment to make it tight and not rub the track.

Thanks for the info Allan, I did notice all of the things that you mention. However, for me these thing changed by such a small amount that I wasn't too concerned about it.

I also noticed that the ski will wash more, but that is a trade off from having less weight on it. I can easily compensate by shifting my weight forward.

retired motoman · Mar 27, 2012

It is the ski!

yukondood said:
Funjunke- kit arrived with the shims on the lower end. I have tried the shocks with more air in front and less in rear, no change. Limiter strap will only effect when acceleratiing, as it is set right now it is loose when sitting on bike.

My try shortening rod.
Thanks guys, don't get me wrong this thing is awesome and I would recommend a MT Horse to anyone asking but a little more trails manners would be nice.

For trail manners you need a good ski!!!!!!!

Last season the best I found was between 75 to 90 lbs in the ft shock and 65 to 80 in the rear.
Do not shorten the forks. Tighten the preload on the springs and the compression on the forks. Set the rebound so you do not get bounce off the jumps.
Timber Sled will have a good ski for next season or get a Simmons Gen II and do some mods (2Moto upgrades or a full Allen mod) Have seen good comments on the Curve ski but have not seen one in the powder.
The ski is the answer for trail maners. Set up helps but the ski is the ticket.

Rush44 · Mar 28, 2012

retired motoman said:
The ski is the answer for trail maners. Set up helps but the ski is the ticket.

I've found the solution for all the ski problems on the trail..... just go REALLY FAST and then you won't be on the trail as long. Works for me!

teal_210 · Mar 29, 2012

Mtn. Muncher said:
By shortening the strut rod by a ¼” it probably will not hurt anything but if you were to re drill a hole in a existing strut rod it would shorten it too much. By doing this it will lower the swing arm pin location and make the bike frame angle versus snow bike kit misaligned. This will point the forks outward and also lower the drive axle location, pushing it lower to the ground. This will make the axle more exposed and is more likely to hit the bumps as a direct blow to the drive system. It also will cam the back of the track off the ground throwing out the geometry of the back suspension. That is why it is best to lower the bike with the suspension shims that are provided. The other thing that will happen is it will loosen the chain and most likely will not have the adjustment to make it tight and prevent it from rubbing the track.

I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I've been thinking about the negatives that have been listed... Wouldn't almost all of these things happen on the new sx model when the third shock compresses?

I realize that the sx is different, and has smaller drivers with a higher center of gravity, and a linkage of sorts, but it seems like the same negatives would come into play. Maybe I'm way out of line...

Mtn. Muncher · Mar 29, 2012

That’s a good point and would make sense but on the SX the secondary swing arm suspension is mounted to the linkage that tunes it properly so it works in conjunction with the back skid suspension. On the SX if you just push down on the seat you will not feel the swing arm suspension working due to the rate that the linkage gives it. If the strut rod is shortened then the bike will just sit like this all the time.

CATSLEDMAN1 · Apr 4, 2012

da pressure of road ride'n

yeah, just rode the worst frozen tore up patch's of dirt and continuous old moguls that some tracked side by side rode in the slush on monday,came out in the dark. so came back and read these posts, some good ideas, while my ride taint a mtn horse but home grown............same issues.

1. more compresssion dampening dialed in the forks helped
2. stiffter front springs will help even more
3. softer rear of rear shock helps

4 moments of of just relaxing and going for it. so under a squirt of power all is good. for sure less ski pressure would be better.

Wish someone would make the " ski ". Old spring crust, so center keel would have washed on the sidehills, the simmons 1 would hold like a razor and sometimes a mind of its own on the knarly trail. Oh well all fun. Never came home with barked shims from kick starting my Arctci cats, all good and new.

sidehillsam · Apr 9, 2012

Snowbike Ski

CATSLEDMAN1, you just described my last saturday's ride . Jeepers were out in force, way bigger ruts than tracked atvs. I'm running a genII tri-keel. It washed-out on moderate sidehill and loaded up every time I stopped. Hardpack manners were acceptable. What are your thoughts on fabricating a Snowhawk duel axis ski mount for the Gen I or Gen II and removing center keel?

CATSLEDMAN1 · Apr 10, 2012

ski issues

hey sidehill, can't even say on the snowhawk setup, rode one setup that way3 or 4 years ago worked the day I rode it, about as many diverse opinions between snowhawk riders though as to what's best as I see here on snowbike riders forums.

for sure lots of room for ski improvement. Like all machinery handling issues, its all good until its bad, then a mad scramble looking for answers. Snow's the worst case because of the extreme wide range of snow conditons and how it affects handling.

how to reudce ski pressure on MH

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