SnoWest Snowmobile Forum

SnoWest Snowmobile Forum (https://www.snowest.com/forum/index.php)
-   Fouled Plug (https://www.snowest.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=84)
-   -   Shocking primary victory in New York City. (https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442659)

Jaynelson 08-15-2018 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheel House Motorsports (Post 4156178)
Nor do I. I'm just pointing out that I think what we are seeing is hardly "brainwashing" but very reasonable reactions to the environment people are seeing.


Remember 10 years ago when the economy was in the ****ter because big private industry in the US got greedy? When these massive private institutions were able to basically run the whole world economy into a recession because they just wanted MORE money?

I have minimal interest in the gov't being involved at all in any part of my life. But the political reaction we are seeing isn't really surprising. We have generations of people now who keep seeing the life getting harder every day while corporate america continues to gamble with there money to try and add another zero to there bank account. Its especially hard when you continue to see large cooperation effectively being "above the law" when they are at fault for ruining the lives and lively hoods of millions of Americans. This is building a total lack of trust in the idea of capitalism. Not that socialism isn't vulnerable to the exact same issues (as its proven to be) BUT, right now we have one system that is continuing to fail a large cross section of society so its not surprising they want something different.

It is an interesting (and frustrating) predicament. Capitalism definitely worked better for our parents than it has for the younger generations. Is there a better system? I'm not sure....but like you say I understand where the backlash has come from.

To see what the stock/investment market has become, and to feel the lack of quality long-term investments/savings vehicles personally is very frustrating. For those of us without company pension plans, and with average incomes, accumulation of wealth has become a REAL struggle at the hands of the large "above the law" type corporations. The risk/reward matrix is totally out of whack IMO....you take on the risk and someone else gets most of the rewards. Also, consumers have been trained to take on massive debt loads for average purchases.....as salaries simply have not kept up with inflation. But the large corps has gotten so intertwined with government, and so good at manipulating the system, that this is where we're at. Is there any real way to roll that back?

It all keeps working because even with all of that, Joe Average in North Am still has it better than he/she would almost anywhere else. Is that a good justification for the inequality of wealth?

Mafesto 08-15-2018 03:01 PM

Inequality of wealth is good.
Would I like to be higher on the economic ladder than what I am? You damned right I would! As going through life I passed on some opportunities that likely would've put me in a better economic situation today. I passed because of the risks.
I hold no jealousy or resentment towards those that took the chances or got lucky breaks or born into wealth.


We seem to be more focused on what we want than what we have, and that mentality will ruin relationships & get you nowhere but miserable.


We need to quit worrying that our neighbor has it better than we do.
Nobody is more responsible for your situation than you are.

Jaynelson 08-15-2018 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafesto (Post 4156213)
Inequality of wealth is good.
Would I like to be higher on the economic ladder than what I am? You damned right I would! As going through life I passed on some opportunities that likely would've put me in a better economic situation today. I passed because of the risks.
I hold no jealousy or resentment towards those that took the chances or got lucky breaks or born into wealth.


We seem to be more focused on what we want than what we have, and that mentality will ruin relationships & get you nowhere but miserable.


We need to quit worrying that our neighbor has it better than we do.
Nobody is more responsible for your situation than you are.

That's the theory for sure. I think the issue is that we have gotten to a point where large corporations DO have an influence on your financial well being when they choose to.

Take a middle class dude who was perfectly happy doing their thing, had saved for retirement and done everything right. Needs to have his money invested in (something) to make at least a minimal return to afford retirement. Was ready to retire for 2008 ish. Then had a good chunk of savings wiped out (even if it was relatively low risk) through no fault, or action, or inaction of his own. Pretty hard to feel warm and fuzzy about the financial system you support every day you go to work and every time you buy something.

Mafesto 08-15-2018 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaynelson (Post 4156214)
Take a middle class dude who was perfectly happy doing their thing, had saved for retirement and done everything right. Needs to have his money invested in (something) to make at least a minimal return to afford retirement. Was ready to retire for 2008 ish. Then had a good chunk of savings wiped out (even if it was relatively low risk) through no fault, or action, or inaction of his own.



Couple thing wrong with your statement in bold print.
1- If you were ready to retire in 2008, most of your money should have been in low risk funds and would have had minimal effect.
2 - The downswing should not have hurt you....unless you sold.


Now, the exception to #2 would be GM stock for example which I RODE ALL THE WAY TO EXTINCION! But this was the exception, not the rule.

Jaynelson 08-15-2018 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafesto (Post 4156217)
Couple thing wrong with your statement in bold print.
1- If you were ready to retire in 2008, most of your money should have been in low risk funds and would have had minimal effect.
2 - The downswing should not have hurt you....unless you sold.


Now, the exception to #2 would be GM stock for example which I RODE ALL THE WAY TO EXTINCION! But this was the exception, not the rule.

I understand those items very well, but still don't think there's anything "wrong" with that statement. Most people, unfortunately, have no idea what the true risk levels in their investments (stocks, mutual funds, etc) are....until a large downturn. Unfortunately, it's just not something most people are well versed in.

The other problem in modern investing is, true low risk funds/stocks these days are hard to afford in their own way.....as they don't even keep up with inflation. So most people are taking more risk than ideal (either consciously or unconsciously) just to get...anywhere.

In hindsight the downside wouldn't have hurt you, but it also took several years to come back. During that time, you have no idea where the bottom is, and how far away the break even point is. Given that, I don't think you can argue that 2008 didn't keep many people working longer than they intended to.

Jaynelson 08-15-2018 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafesto (Post 4156183)
I'm not buying into this.
For the most part, the younger people that are financially struggling are the same ones that have no interest in working over 40 hours/week.
Here in the heartland, you could stop at any business and ask for a job, and they would either hire you on the spot or refer you to multiple places that would.


We often have this discussion, and it always end up "the young folks that want to work have the world by the balls" and I stand by that.


If it sucks where you are....move.
We don't have a shortage of jobs, we have a shortage of people wanting to do the less than desirable work.
And don't get me started on the able bodies that are working the system!
I just cringe when I here remarks like "why work overtime when uncle sam is gonna just take it" or ""by the time we pay for daycare, my wife would be better off NOT working.
You know what? Your kids see this and learn the laziness.


The young people complaining about how hard it is should consider eliminating monthly expenses like cell phones, cable, internet, Netflix, daily energy drinks, tobacco etc. They are wasting the money that could be getting them ahead.


Rant over - for now.

This is pure conjecture though. By the numbers, people are actually working MORE than ever....longer hours....more days/hours per week....more education required to get the job in the first place.....more dual income families than ever before. We aren't talking about people milking welfare, that's a totally different issue. We are talking about the working class....who are working more to get to the same place.

"by the time we pay for daycare, my wife would be better off NOT working.

That's a pretty legit issue in many cases. 4 day a week daycare (for 1 kid) costs us $900 --> $1,100/month. That's more than my parents ever paid for a mortgage, let alone child care. It's "worth it" for my wife to work, but for many with below average pay you would be working to simply break even. Seems like a huge waste of time with your kid, no?

Wheel House Motorsports 08-15-2018 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafesto (Post 4156217)
"most of your money should have been in low risk funds"


Have you seen the movie "The Big Short"? Its a bit glamorized but does a good job bringing light to a lot of things that explain just this.

Basically tons of banks and ratings companies were rating absolutely high risk trash type investments as AAA and tons of average working class americans were buying into this stuff as it was as low risk as you could get rating wise. Turns out they were being lied to and all of a sudden far too many people found out that they were investing there future in VERY high risk stuff. But they only found that out after it was all gone and there hard work went up in smoke.

I like an economic ladder. I get it, its important. The problem is those at the top keep trying to make the ladder taller by risking the investments of those below them. And when things go wrong.... oh well. Obviously going from being a multi billionare when things are good down to a millionare would suck. Massive losses. But that struggle cannot be compared to someone in the middle class who has now been evicted from there home and there savings basically vanishes. They are starting back at square one.

Mafesto 08-15-2018 06:23 PM

I'm trying to be argumentative, but I strongly disagree with quite a bit of your post.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaynelson (Post 4156226)
This is pure conjecture though. By the numbers, people are actually working MORE than ever....longer hours....more days/hours per week No, no they're not, we worked every minute of overtime available, many of the young folks are happy when no overtime is needed....more education required to get the job in the first placeNo, I'm seeing more places willing to train because they'll take anyone with a pulse.....more dual income families than ever before. We aren't talking about people milking welfare, that's a totally different issue. We are talking about the working class....who are working more to get to the same place.

"by the time we pay for daycare, my wife would be better off NOT working.

That's a pretty legit issue in many cases. 4 day a week daycare (for 1 kid) costs us $900 --> $1,100/month. That's more than my parents ever paid for a mortgage, let alone child care. It's "worth it" for my wife to work, but for many with below average pay you would be working to simply break even. Seems like a huge waste of time with your kid, no?No. You set the right example and go to work. The years spent staying home with the kids are years of potential advancement lost. Gone forever. So after cleaning snot for 5 years you go back to work 5 years behind. Terrible choice.


Jaynelson 08-15-2018 06:37 PM

It really doesn't matter if you're trying to argue, because you are ignoring the hard facts, and picking/choosing choosing conflicting items from the "good ol days."

On one hand you are arguing that people used to work more (which a quick google search will tell you is incorrect). On another hand you are arguing no one should be a stay-at-home parent....except there are TWICE as many dual income families as there were a few decades ago (also fact).

Wheel House Motorsports 08-15-2018 07:29 PM

Comparing antecdotal evidence from small town South Dakota (which represents 2.6% of the US population as a whole) is really fairly meaningless when comparing it to the averages of all data available in the US. Like Jay mentioned. Comparing your personal 'the good old days' commentary is really meaningless.

Everyone used to always work harder, everything was built better and we walked to school uphill both ways....

Jean-Luc Picard 08-16-2018 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafesto (Post 4156183)
I'm not buying into this.
For the most part, the younger people that are financially struggling are the same ones that have no interest in working over 40 hours/week.
Here in the heartland, you could stop at any business and ask for a job, and they would either hire you on the spot or refer you to multiple places that would.


We often have this discussion, and it always end up "the young folks that want to work have the world by the balls" and I stand by that.


If it sucks where you are....move.
We don't have a shortage of jobs, we have a shortage of people wanting to do the less than desirable work.
And don't get me started on the able bodies that are working the system!
I just cringe when I here remarks like "why work overtime when uncle sam is gonna just take it" or "by the time we pay for daycare, my wife would be better off NOT working".
You know what? Your kids see this and learn the laziness.


The young people complaining about how hard it is should consider eliminating monthly expenses like cell phones, cable, internet, Netflix, daily energy drinks, tobacco etc. They are wasting the money that could be getting them ahead.


Rant over - for now.


I've worked my tail off & been laid off from multiple jobs & in between "better jobs" have been willing to work in the Potato processing plant, harvest, whatever. There has not been a year when I have been able to stay current on my mortgage every month. I was keeping my fingers crossed for this year, but, nope, WHAM! Car repair. I'd love to be able to build a savings account for that kind of thing, but thanks to things like if my mortgage payment being late getting nailed with a $35 late fee for every month until I'm able to get caught up.


Aside from Medicaid for my kids, I've never had any kind of govt. welfare. No food stamps ever, even though I definitely would have qualified (and may still for all I know). If we're low on money, we eat spuds, oatmeal, beans etc. I work full time & I record audio books in my spare time, plus I help my wife with her business. Definitely not easier than my parents had it when I was a kid, and I don't think any easier than their parents had it in the 40's - 60's. And as far as moving to somewhere else for a better job - 1 - I love where I live, 2 - Moving costs money, 3 - My life is actually getting a little better where I'm at as well. I think I'm in it for the long haul.

Jean-Luc Picard 08-16-2018 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaynelson (Post 4156191)
It is an interesting (and frustrating) predicament. Capitalism definitely worked better for our parents than it has for the younger generations. Is there a better system? I'm not sure....but like you say I understand where the backlash has come from.


It all keeps working because even with all of that, Joe Average in North Am still has it better than he/she would almost anywhere else. Is that a good justification for the inequality of wealth?


If you live in USA or Canada, chances are you are (myself included) in the top 5% economically speaking worldwide. We whine too much. 1st world problems. I love the Christmas song 'Dear Santa' that has every other kid being from the US giving their Christmas list & the others all from 3rd world countries. Its tongue in cheek & hilarious, but very true. It's like Dudley Dursley from Harry Potter on his birthday being upset that there's only 36 presents 'cuz last year there were 37.
Ultimately, we need to look around & see what we can do to lift our fellowman. I read A Christmas Carol aloud to my kids each year. The ghost of Christmas Present's Soliloquy just before he disappears is my favorite part & forms the basis for many of my political & economic leanings.



So Merry Christmas. Only 4 months & 9 days. I think I'd better listen to some Christmas Music tonight. :face-icon-small-hap:kev: Wait.. That's Hanukah...

BLITZKRIEG 08-21-2018 01:09 AM

you gotta love it
 
Watters: Real news you missed while media covered Omarosa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQWK91eLvH0

Jean-Luc Picard 08-25-2018 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLITZKRIEG (Post 4156722)
Watters: Real news you missed while media covered Omarosa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQWK91eLvH0

I agree the coverage of Omarosa was ridiculous. She says one thing in her book & something completely different in interviews, claiming that its what she said in her book.

Ie.. Not a credible witness. Stop giving her air time. Still - Would it surprise anyone if Trump did use the "N" word. Would it be grounds for censure or removal. Um... No. His supporters would still support him, his opponents would still oppose him.

I really tried to watch the rest of this video. If this is what you folks think is real news I worry about you. He has valid points occasionally. But how about the lack of coverage of some nut who came to a refugee center in Boise Idaho, stabbed dozens & KILLED a 3 yo girl. Yeah that happened. Have you heard about it?

Fearmongering on either side creates people like that. This video is crap.

Scott 08-25-2018 09:53 AM

Omarosa is a snake.
I watched her on The Apprentice.
Wow.


This Ocasio-Cortez gal is a total millennial. For some reason, I can't link the Facebook post, but go find this 6min video. WOW.
Post was made by "All news 24/7" it's a collage of video clips of her talking.

Mafesto 11-07-2018 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafesto (Post 4153055)
Her victory all but hands it to her republican opponent in November.



When I'm wrong, I'm wrong BIG!!!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...D=ansmsnnews11

go high fast 11-07-2018 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafesto (Post 4170090)

HOUSE 14 WINNER

more candidates
D Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez 78% 100,044
R Anthony Pappas 13.8% 17,762
W Joe Crowley 6.6% 8,505


a real squeaker!!

freekweet mods 11-07-2018 07:33 PM

Squeaker - bwa ha ha thats a gooder


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:24 PM.


All contents copyright 2007-2017, SnoWest Magazine, Harris Publishing Inc.