ktm 500 vs 450

[cisco]

i have 500 exc 2018 that run on vortex C3 ecu and fmf pipe on yeti freeride 2021. before i let this bike on snow only i thought off selling it and buy new left over 450 for about same price because 500 exc hare expensive here in quebec or ontario .

i think the 500 have good power but not sure about transmission . 1 gear i never use it . yen riding i feel the bike can not push one gear and to much rpm in a lower one . wen you hare talking about close ratio transmission hare you saying the 450 have better gap between gear ? my 500 have long gear and big gap between them that cause to much rpm in one gear and can not run the otter one after .

i did not try 450 sx or xc-f , all my riding buddy run 500 . i like 500 power but transmission need better spacing in 4-5-6

also 450 that run on yeti freeride , do you run out off gear often on top end or short blast on hard snow

 

[jrlastofthebreed]

I don't ride a yeti but the exc 450 and 500 bikes are very emissions restricted with wide ratio transmissions. I see you piped and ECU to help fix the power issues. With a wide ratio its common that 1st is very low with a small gap to 2nd and a large gap to 3rd. Since we ride 2nd and 3rd most of the time it can be... annoying. but its nice that they have 6 gears. the sxf and xcf are mostly uncorked and have close ratio transmissions with equal gaps between gears allowing you to stay in the power. but they only have 5 gears. the perfect bike is somewhere in the middle. You can add a 6th gear to an sxf/xcf or you can re-gear the exc with close gearing out of a sxf/xcf bike. Several websites and a few youtube videos on how to do gear swaps. Its very reasonable if you do it yourself.

 

[weak_T4R]

i have 500 exc 2018 that run on vortex C3 ecu and fmf pipe on yeti freeride 2021. before i let this bike on snow only i thought off selling it and buy new left over 450 for about same price because 500 exc hare expensive here in quebec or ontario .

i think the 500 have good power but not sure about transmission . 1 gear i never use it . yen riding i feel the bike can not push one gear and to much rpm in a lower one . wen you hare talking about close ratio transmission hare you saying the 450 have better gap between gear ? my 500 have long gear and big gap between them that cause to much rpm in one gear and can not run the otter one after .

i did not try 450 sx or xc-f , all my riding buddy run 500 . i like 500 power but transmission need better spacing in 4-5-6

also 450 that run on yeti freeride , do you run out off gear often on top end or short blast on hard snow

What did you decide to do? I have a 20 500exc debating pulling a trigger on a sled kit myself. Similar mods... GET,FMF,Intake

 

[byeatts]

Dyno at the wheels on a 2019 500 exc is 41hp@ 7800 rpm 29.51 lbs torque and at 6690 rpm.The 2019 xc450 on same Dyno at the wheels at Dyno Jet is 52.4 HP @ 10100 rpm and 33.2 lbs torque at 6800 rpm. as you can see the 500 is 11 hp shy and less torque , The big kicker is the 500 hits rev limiter all day long and kills track speed , The 450 holds much more track speed due to the high RPM. This is the difference between a race motor and a emission compliant motor. After the 500 is modified like the older 500 xcw were it makes similar power to the 450 however it still hits rev limiter at low RPM killing track speed.. The 500 tranny is horrible on the snow. I st gear is useless and the gap from 2 to 3rd terrible., The 500 is good for new riders who wish to ride slower in the rpm range but its not the best choice for advanced riders, Not to say the 500 is a bad machine however its not the performance choice. Those who have a 500 will rant how great is is , I have both here The 450 race bike and an uncorked XCW 500, both on new Yeti kits and they don't compare on the hill. Also i just looked at the 2020 exc 500 dyno and it makes less power than the 19 due to emission compliance and required leaner mapping at 39.4 HP @ 8100 rpm and 27.7 lbs torque @ 5200 rpm, An ECU helps the HP if uncorked.

 

[GlennRMK]

IMO, where the 500 shines is for those that use the bike in the summer for single track. I've spent a couple days on a 2014 500 XC-W and it worked well for single track where as my 19 Husky FX450 is horrible. I've ridden both in the snow and I am always hitting the rev limiter on the 500 and never hit it on the 450.

The 450 is definitely better in the snow but the 500 works, especially short shifting or for those that don't like to rev out a bike.

For a dedicated snowbike, a 450 MX bike is the best.

As mentioned the wide ratio is not ideal for snow and the close ratio sucks on the trails with a 450! Luckily I have a 250 2 stroke I ride in the summer! If I didn't I would consider the 500 as a do it all bike.

 

[CB-BLR]

So you guys above must not have done much tuning or riding on a MY 2020+ 500 xcf-w.
For 2020 the 500 got the 450sx head, higher compression, and a more aggressive cam than the previous years.
We have done a couple of these bikes with a SX intake, a FMF slip on, a 44mm carb bore from PR2, a custom re-programmed PR2 ECU on 2-Wheel-Dynoworks dyno...and we came away with 41 ft/lbs of torque and 60.9 hp at the rear wheel at 9650 rpm. They will eat the previous years 500's alive on the dyno, and in the real world. While I agree that this is shy of the 11k redline of the 2020 ktm 450 sx we did on the same dyno...and HP numbers were within 1 hp. The 500 had almost 9 ft/lbs more torque (8.8), and the torque curve was way broader on the 500. This is probably why Reigan Seig, Brock Buttars and others have switched from an over-bored 450 last year (490 cc's) to the newer 500's in 2020 and 2021. While I also agree that the 3-4 shift on the 500 is too big a jump when pulling an ARO 3 in deep wet northwestern snow...2nd and 3rd are blissfull due to the extra torque. Brock installed 450sx gears into his 2021 Husky 500, along with a 6th gear, and on a motor with only the bolt-on parts listed above...had to gear his ARO 3 kit up 5% from stock because of the extra torque. We will be trying different cams shortly to see if we can get it to rev into the 10.5 k range without loosing torque...all while still using the stock bore for reliability. While I agree that up until this year the 450's had my nod for choice of a snowbike rig...2020 and beyond 500's are a game changer. The guys at Thumper Racing and PR2 are on the same bandwagon with this motor...give them a call and check it out.

Just my findings.
Chris
Bottom Line Racing

 

[CB-BLR]

As a side note... The bike also needs to fit the kit... For a 2.5 track in a 120 or 129, with a lighter (under 200#) rider... The quicker reving 450 is the cat's meow... For a traction monster like an ARO 3 or a 137... The newer 500's are the ticket.

Chris


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[weak_T4R]

As a side note... The bike also needs to fit the kit... For a 2.5 track in a 120 or 129, with a lighter (under 200#) rider... The quicker reving 450 is the cat's meow... For a traction monster like an ARO 3 or a 137... The newer 500's are the ticket.

Chris


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks Chris!
Your kind of my inspiration to the 500. Like i said i have a 20 500 with basic mods (compared to you) the get ecu with Tacos program is suppose to get 56hp (yes less than yours). My biggest fear is spending the money on a kit and hating the setup wishing i had the 450. BUT i put supermoto wheels on it and use it to buzz around town as well as out to friends house for weekend fun on land... Plating a 450 in wisco.... no thanks.

I was looking at the 129. I was going to stay clear of the 120s (too short for me) but the 137 is grabbing my attention more and more now...

I dont have 7k for a aro3 (although would like one..) but for starting off trying to keep incoming costs low.

Ill have to look up brocks 500. My thought was all those guys run the 490s like you said.

 

[weak_T4R]

im 225+ rider BTW - you mentioned weight in there.

 

[CB-BLR]

Thanks Chris!
Your kind of my inspiration to the 500. Like i said i have a 20 500 with basic mods (compared to you) the get ecu with Tacos program is suppose to get 56hp (yes less than yours). My biggest fear is spending the money on a kit and hating the setup wishing i had the 450. BUT i put supermoto wheels on it and use it to buzz around town as well as out to friends house for weekend fun on land... Plating a 450 in wisco.... no thanks.

I was looking at the 129. I was going to stay clear of the 120s (too short for me) but the 137 is grabbing my attention more and more now...

I dont have 7k for a aro3 (although would like one..) but for starting off trying to keep incoming costs low.

Ill have to look up brocks 500. My thought was all those guys run the 490s like you said.

I would recommend you have PR2 do the 44mm throttle bore...and they will reprogram your GET ecu for the bigger throttle body for free generally when you have them do the machine work...they are good guys.
This will give you approx 4 hp and 4 ft/lbs of torque more, and extends the rev range.
Get the reeds out of the intake and open up the exhaust or get a FMF can.

The 129 is a good kit and generally does everything pretty darn well....13/17 on the bike over 17/17 in the chain case works great with the 2.5" track on a new 500.
you will need to purchase a 17 tooth sprocket from Polaris. Stock chain case gearing is 18/17 on the 129 2.5 kit...and swapping to 17/18 is too low for the 500.

The ARO137 does have good flotation...but they produce too much ski pressure in my opinion...making it too hard to turn (corner).
The older MH 137sx kits turned easier due to the rear part of the skid being tilted up 6 deg behind the rear shock to reduce ski pressure...but polaris in their penny pinching wisdom decided it was not worth the extra $5 per rail on the ARO 137's to have them bent up after they purchased TS from Allen.

Hope this helps,

Chris

 

[CB-BLR]

As a side note...I absolutely love my ARO 3 with shortened shocks and the S spindle...best kit I have ever ridden...and I have ridden a lot of kits now.
Having said that...a 120 still feels the most playful to me but falls short in traction and steep climbing. (I weigh 245# stepping out of the shower)
I would really love to have a 3" paddle 120 track that has been lowered....Come on Polaris....bring it!

 

[mtnthumper]

How is the fuel consumption with the throttle body mod? Any significant increase?

 

[CB-BLR]

Nothing noticable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cisco]

What did you decide to do? I have a 20 500exc debating pulling a trigger on a sled kit myself. Similar mods... GET,FMF,Intake

i have 2018 exc on yeti 129 2021 . C3 intake , C3 votex and fmf pipe .
exc bike wort a lot and think about keeping track on al the time but it a waste off money if i can sell my 500 to go 450 ....
if i can be a much better bike , i will sell the 500 and go new 450

dont forget2017-19 exc 500 have 40 hp but on vortex and pipe , no emission they have more like 55 hp about 450 power

 

[cisco]

So you guys above must not have done much tuning or riding on a MY 2020+ 500 xcf-w.
For 2020 the 500 got the 450sx head, higher compression, and a more aggressive cam than the previous years.
We have done a couple of these bikes with a SX intake, a FMF slip on, a 44mm carb bore from PR2, a custom re-programmed PR2 ECU on 2-Wheel-Dynoworks dyno...and we came away with 41 ft/lbs of torque and 60.9 hp at the rear wheel at 9650 rpm. They will eat the previous years 500's alive on the dyno, and in the real world. While I agree that this is shy of the 11k redline of the 2020 ktm 450 sx we did on the same dyno...and HP numbers were within 1 hp. The 500 had almost 9 ft/lbs more torque (8.8), and the torque curve was way broader on the 500. This is probably why Reigan Seig, Brock Buttars and others have switched from an over-bored 450 last year (490 cc's) to the newer 500's in 2020 and 2021. While I also agree that the 3-4 shift on the 500 is too big a jump when pulling an ARO 3 in deep wet northwestern snow...2nd and 3rd are blissfull due to the extra torque. Brock installed 450sx gears into his 2021 Husky 500, along with a 6th gear, and on a motor with only the bolt-on parts listed above...had to gear his ARO 3 kit up 5% from stock because of the extra torque. We will be trying different cams shortly to see if we can get it to rev into the 10.5 k range without loosing torque...all while still using the stock bore for reliability. While I agree that up until this year the 450's had my nod for choice of a snowbike rig...2020 and beyond 500's are a game changer. The guys at Thumper Racing and PR2 are on the same bandwagon with this motor...give them a call and check it out.

Just my findings.
Chris
Bottom Line Racing

that the answer i looking for . very interesting .
2017-19 vs 20-21 about how many hp ? 5 hp or more ? talking piped and aftermarket ecu
i did see a low hors 2020 500 xcf-f for sale cheap , seller was looking for steetable bike .... if i knew

 

[byeatts]

that the answer i looking for . very interesting .
2017-19 vs 20-21 about how many hp ? 5 hp or more ? talking piped and aftermarket ecu
i did see a low hors 2020 500 xcf-f for sale cheap , seller was looking for steetable bike .... if i knew

 

[cisco]

yes i know 500 make low hp stock
but on aftermarket ecu they make 13-15 hp more , so stock hp is noting to compare to aftermarket ecu .

 

[weak_T4R]

ill just leave this here....

KTM and Husqvarna 500/501FE and EXC-F GET ECU Project

What happens when you take our open pro Baja 1000 Husky 501FE and dial it in with the reed cage removed, slip on exhaust (from Bills pipe) and add a our custom developed GET ECU? A WHOLE LOT OF...

www.hpracedevelopment.com

 

[weak_T4R]

i have 2018 exc on yeti 129 2021 . C3 intake , C3 votex and fmf pipe .
exc bike wort a lot and think about keeping track on al the time but it a waste off money if i can sell my 500 to go 450 ....
if i can be a much better bike , i will sell the 500 and go new 450

dont forget2017-19 exc 500 have 40 hp but on vortex and pipe , no emission they have more like 55 hp about 450 power

so you like the 500? im totally confused on that post lol

 

[CB-BLR]

The video's above are predictable and silly.

The 500 has reeds in the intake for sound suppression, a 42mm throttle body, all of the smog stuff in place, and an exhaust that is restricted with several layers of physical blockage to reduce sound...along with an ecu programmed to meet California emissions.

The 450sx on the other hand has an open intake, a 44mm throttle body, no smog stuff, and an open exhaust...along with an ecu that is full tilt boogie from the factory and is not required to meet emissions.

on the 500...When you open up the intake by replacing the stock one with one off of an 450sx, either replace the throttle body with an 44mm off of an 450sx or have the stock one bored to 44mm, remove all the smog stuff so that it is like the 450sx, add a 450sx muffler or equivalent, and retune the ecu to similar specs as the 450sx (correct jetting for the 500) The 500 will make similar hp as a 450sx with a retuned ecu, and about 10 more ft/lbs of torque over a wider range...all at an approx 1500 rpm lower redline...while using slightly less fuel due to engine efficiency...and having a longer rebuild interval due to less stress on the recreprocating assembly and lower rpm.

Don't get me wrong...I love me a 450sx turned into a 490...but the greater torque of the 500 is easier to ride with an ARO 3 or heavier rider in my opinion.

The video's above are not representative of a level playing field.

Chris