Future Suspension Changes

[XPWY]

After purchasing a new Summit every year for the last 10 years, I have to admit that I've been very disappointed by the lack of advancement in the shock/suspension packages offered from the factory. When the G4 came out in 2017, almost every major component was re-designed except one thing.....suspension.

It’s essentially been the same suspension since the XM came out in 2013, with the exception of the T3 revision in 2015, which happened halfway through the XM chassis cycle. Admittedly, the T3 package with the extended chaincase and 3” track was a very nice upgrade.

With chassis lasting roughly 5-6 years before re-design and being in year 3 of the G4 cycle with no suspension design changes, what changes from BRP would everyone like to see as a mid build cycle update for next year?

I would personally like to see an option to upgrade the shocks for a reasonable cost during the spring order program. Being able to upgrade to a premium shock package from the factory that is sled specific for the G4 and tested by the factory riders. It would take the guessing game out of which aftermarket packages are and aren’t worth the big money required to upgrade. I've been down that road before and was very disappointed in the bang for the buck. The doo accessory catalog is loaded with Fox shocks and can-am side by sides are already available with them from the factory. So, why are we not seeing this as a spring order option yet? Instead, we are stuck with paying for the stock shocks and then selling them as take offs for a fraction of what they cost, just to turn around and spend 2-3K on an aftermarket setup that we hope will work as advertised. At the very least, I would like to see the option to upgrade to the KYB Pro freeride shocks as an order option. Hopefully, we see a revised rear suspension design similar to the new ‘19 race sled, but one that’s purpose built for the mountains. Will we ever be able to finally get rid of the torsion springs?

This may come off as a rant, but it’s not intended as one. It’s more of a wishlist for the new year. I really like my new 2019, just tired of looking at the antique suspension in an otherwise newly designed sled and wishing each passing year that we would see some type of new technology in an area that's so important.

 

[Summit74]

Definitely due for a revision. Suspension on the Polaris and Cat seem to be headed in right direction, ski-doo not so much

 

[Devilmanak]

I spent a bunch of money on shocks this year on my 175. I love the sled, more comfy on it than usual. I think that 75% of it is the front shocks, they don't collapse and fold under like the undersprung stockers. I think that properly valved and sprung stockers would be equally good. Thinking of sending mine out for a revalve and trying them.

 

[Nytroty]

I spent a bunch of money on shocks this year on my 175. I love the sled, more comfy on it than usual. I think that 75% of it is the front shocks, they don't collapse and fold under like the undersprung stockers. I think that properly valved and sprung stockers would be equally good. Thinking of sending mine out for a revalve and trying them.

What did you end up putting on it? Lets see some pics of your setup!

 

[Norona]

After purchasing a new Summit every year for the last 10 years, I have to admit that I've been very disappointed by the lack of advancement in the shock/suspension packages offered from the factory. When the G4 came out in 2017, almost every major component was re-designed except one thing.....suspension.

It’s essentially been the same suspension since the XM came out in 2013, with the exception of the T3 revision in 2015, which happened halfway through the XM chassis cycle. Admittedly, the T3 package with the extended chaincase and 3” track was a very nice upgrade.

With chassis lasting roughly 5-6 years before re-design and being in year 3 of the G4 cycle with no suspension design changes, what changes from BRP would everyone like to see as a mid build cycle update for next year?

I would personally like to see an option to upgrade the shocks for a reasonable cost during the spring order program. Being able to upgrade to a premium shock package from the factory that is sled specific for the G4 and tested by the factory riders. It would take the guessing game out of which aftermarket packages are and aren’t worth the big money required to upgrade. I've been down that road before and was very disappointed in the bang for the buck. The doo accessory catalog is loaded with Fox shocks and can-am side by sides are already available with them from the factory. So, why are we not seeing this as a spring order option yet? Instead, we are stuck with paying for the stock shocks and then selling them as take offs for a fraction of what they cost, just to turn around and spend 2-3K on an aftermarket setup that we hope will work as advertised. At the very least, I would like to see the option to upgrade to the KYB Pro freeride shocks as an order option. Hopefully, we see a revised rear suspension design similar to the new ‘19 race sled, but one that’s purpose built for the mountains. Will we ever be able to finally get rid of the torsion springs?

This may come off as a rant, but it’s not intended as one. It’s more of a wishlist for the new year. I really like my new 2019, just tired of looking at the antique suspension in an otherwise newly designed sled and wishing each passing year that we would see some type of new technology in an area that's so important.

Torsions work, maybe not for the 5% but for the 95% they do. Polaris have gone back to torsions on some of their models because they work better than when they went away from them. It is always easy to think that ordering stuff from the factory when it is built is cheaper, but it is not. Look at the Freeride, we don't sell a ton of them and it has the wicked KYB piggybacks, and your paying half of what you would aftermarket, it is a wicked deal if you want wicked suspension. But here is the problem, the 5% want to choose their suspension, they want their hard earned money to go with what they want, or if they have a buddy or a shop who gives them a deal, they will get those over something else. For those who say Arctic cat has fox from factory, why not ski doo, well you get shot and other expensive items. It is the same with every accessory, most guys say it should come on the sled, the reason it does not is cost. Its to keep the cost as low as possible, even if we gave you a few extra items and were 500.00 over the same sled in another brand people would complain about that, and when we would say its because this accessory or that one, you would say, well I dont want that anyway. So the sled, like a dirt bike comes for the masses, and those who want to spend more or need more or improved stuff can then spend their money to do so.
Another thing that most people don't realize is the testing that would have to go into a full redesign, the reason sleds take a long time to come to market is because the manufacture is under way more limitations to what they can put out and the testing they have to go through over an aftermarket company. This is also a cost that most dont think about or know about so again it limits things that are even worth doing until something really epic comes along. And it always does! There is not one rider on the planet that is limited by his or her snowmobile regardless of brand. Enjoy, we are living in lucky times and its only getting better!

 

[Devilmanak]

Freeride shocks are not wicked. Not any more, maybe when the Freeride was a true hillclimb sled.
They are better than X model shocks due to adjustability, but the valving is still soft. With every Freeride I have owned since 2013 (5 of them), the first thing to do after PDI is crank the comp damping all the way up all the way around. I will admit that the Gen 4 Freeride shocks are getting better, as far as valving.
Cat provides Fox shocks for the cost of the sled/model. Shot costs an extra $600.
Doo needs to pull their head out and provide decent shocks, or at least the option. A Summit X is a decent sled, it is a MUCH better sled when properly valved and sprung, and Tmotion removed. I shouldn't have to pay $2500 for shocks on top of a $15K sled just to get comparable suspension as a $15K Alpha.
I try to support Doo, my bud wanted a new sled and I aimed him at an available Freeride, but he was able to save almost $2000 and get better shocks with a Cat.

 

[ak]

Why couldn’t there be a kyb coilover skid, similar to what Polaris offers with walker Evans.

Ski doo needs to work on a flatter attack angle so the sled climbs up on the snow better. You can tighten the limiter strap but the xp handling comes back.

 

[Devilmanak]

Why couldn’t there be a kyb coilover skid, similar to what Polaris offers with walker Evans.

Ski doo needs to work on a flatter attack angle so the sled climbs up on the snow better. You can tighten the limiter strap but the xp handling comes back.

THAT is correct. Look at an Alpha angle, the Doo looks like an old Yamaha MM!
I tightened the limiter on my 16 and it worked a little better, but the lack of suspension travel just about put me over the bars at 50mph, when I didn't have issues before.
Maybe limiter with some decent shocks would be the ticket.
My 19 175 trenches, just like the rest I have had. A Poo will crawl out of holes with a ski tug just above engagement. Won't happen with a Doo. Even when running at speed, it feels like it spins more than it should.

 

[XPWY]

Torsions work, maybe not for the 5% but for the 95% they do. Polaris have gone back to torsions on some of their models because they work better than when they went away from them. It is always easy to think that ordering stuff from the factory when it is built is cheaper, but it is not. Look at the Freeride, we don't sell a ton of them and it has the wicked KYB piggybacks, and your paying half of what you would aftermarket, it is a wicked deal if you want wicked suspension. But here is the problem, the 5% want to choose their suspension, they want their hard earned money to go with what they want, or if they have a buddy or a shop who gives them a deal, they will get those over something else. For those who say Arctic cat has fox from factory, why not ski doo, well you get shot and other expensive items. It is the same with every accessory, most guys say it should come on the sled, the reason it does not is cost. Its to keep the cost as low as possible, even if we gave you a few extra items and were 500.00 over the same sled in another brand people would complain about that, and when we would say its because this accessory or that one, you would say, well I dont want that anyway. So the sled, like a dirt bike comes for the masses, and those who want to spend more or need more or improved stuff can then spend their money to do so.
Another thing that most people don't realize is the testing that would have to go into a full redesign, the reason sleds take a long time to come to market is because the manufacture is under way more limitations to what they can put out and the testing they have to go through over an aftermarket company. This is also a cost that most dont think about or know about so again it limits things that are even worth doing until something really epic comes along. And it always does! There is not one rider on the planet that is limited by his or her snowmobile regardless of brand. Enjoy, we are living in lucky times and its only getting better!

Thanks for the response Dave. I understand that there are costs involved for this type of upgrade. Why not offer a shock package upgrade for a reasonable fee during spring order, similar to the add on for shot start? Those that are buying a sled at a certain price point have the option to keep it as is and pay less. Those of us that would like to have the upgraded shocks could pay a little more as an add on option during the spring order instead of spending big money in aftermarket cost. With the exception of a turbo kit, shocks/suspension are the most expensive upgrade most of us will ever purchase. It would be nice to at least be able to have the option to upgrade to a nicer shock package from the start in order to reduce that cost.

 

[Norona]

Thanks for the response Dave. I understand that there are costs involved for this type of upgrade. Why not offer a shock package upgrade for a reasonable fee during spring order, similar to the add on for shot start? Those that are buying a sled at a certain price point have the option to keep it as is and pay less. Those of us that would like to have the upgraded shocks could pay a little more as an add on option during the spring order instead of spending big money in aftermarket cost. With the exception of a turbo kit, shocks/suspension are the most expensive upgrade most of us will ever purchase. It would be nice to at least be able to have the option to upgrade to a nicer shock package from the start in order to reduce that cost.

Ski-Doo does, its the Freeride, same exact sled as the summit, with piggy backs for the half the cost as retail. It is better that you can purchase direct from a dealer instead of Ski-Doo having to purchase, then carry and ship to Valcourt, put on and then sell to you all at a mark up and it goes on the line, take time on the line to add another sku to what they are making...it is much better that you have a choice at your specific dealer and then work a deal on ordering all your parts and buy at once. I have seen some dealers kill it at this, they have a big open house and you order all your stuff, the more you buy the bigger the discount, it works in everyones favour! Cheers dave

 

[Norona]

Freeride shocks are not wicked. Not any more, maybe when the Freeride was a true hillclimb sled.
They are better than X model shocks due to adjustability, but the valving is still soft. With every Freeride I have owned since 2013 (5 of them), the first thing to do after PDI is crank the comp damping all the way up all the way around. I will admit that the Gen 4 Freeride shocks are getting better, as far as valving.
Cat provides Fox shocks for the cost of the sled/model. Shot costs an extra $600.
Doo needs to pull their head out and provide decent shocks, or at least the option. A Summit X is a decent sled, it is a MUCH better sled when properly valved and sprung, and Tmotion removed. I shouldn't have to pay $2500 for shocks on top of a $15K sled just to get comparable suspension as a $15K Alpha.
I try to support Doo, my bud wanted a new sled and I aimed him at an available Freeride, but he was able to save almost $2000 and get better shocks with a Cat.

Yeah we should make them like a hill climb or snow cross, then 95% of the riders will hate them, your comment is the exact reason it is better to purchase after market. If ski-doo makes the sled set up for you 95% will hate it and you will love it and they will lose money, this way they please what the 95% wants and you can purchase what you want to make yourself happy, from many of your comments it would be impossible to make you happy with something from the factory without it being a factory built sled, then it still would not be set up for you, if your rad, then you have to build something rad that pleases you. Or like I say, you can build your own sled and add all the goodies you want and then put it for sale against a base level model sled and see how well you do as a business. Then you might rethink the head out of your ass comment.

 

[XPWY]

Ski-Doo does, its the Freeride, same exact sled as the summit, with piggy backs for the half the cost as retail. It is better that you can purchase direct from a dealer instead of Ski-Doo having to purchase, then carry and ship to Valcourt, put on and then sell to you all at a mark up and it goes on the line, take time on the line to add another sku to what they are making...it is much better that you have a choice at your specific dealer and then work a deal on ordering all your parts and buy at once. I have seen some dealers kill it at this, they have a big open house and you order all your stuff, the more you buy the bigger the discount, it works in everyones favour! Cheers dave

There are a couple of issues with the “just buy a free ride” train of thought. For those of us that ride a 175, it’s not available in that track length. I understand the reason for that, since it’s marketed as more of a jump sled and the argument about shorter vs longer tracks for that type of riding. The freeride is also only offered in one color. I realize that everyone has an opinion on color choices, but I have not seen one freeride color option that I would even consider purchasing. I think most of us would agree that having different color options like the summit has, offers much more for the buyer over being stuck with something just because it was the only thing available.

 

[Devilmanak]

Yeah we should make them like a hill climb or snow cross, then 95% of the riders will hate them, your comment is the exact reason it is better to purchase after market. If ski-doo makes the sled set up for you 95% will hate it and you will love it and they will lose money, this way they please what the 95% wants and you can purchase what you want to make yourself happy, from many of your comments it would be impossible to make you happy with something from the factory without it being a factory built sled, then it still would not be set up for you, if your rad, then you have to build something rad that pleases you. Or like I say, you can build your own sled and add all the goodies you want and then put it for sale against a base level model sled and see how well you do as a business. Then you might rethink the head out of your ass comment.

Like I said, they need to provide an option. Everyone else does. That would be both rad and wicked.

 

[PaulAnd]

Still waiting for the Freeride 600r
Hillclimb edition!
146 or 154?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ziggity]

Doo needs to offer more adjustability on their shocks on X models, my fathers mountain cat and my buddys new axys shocks are a step ahead of my summit x for sure.

 

[Big10inch]

Yeah we should make them like a hill climb or snow cross, then 95% of the riders will hate them, your comment is the exact reason it is better to purchase after market. If ski-doo makes the sled set up for you 95% will hate it and you will love it and they will lose money, this way they please what the 95% wants and you can purchase what you want to make yourself happy, from many of your comments it would be impossible to make you happy with something from the factory without it being a factory built sled, then it still would not be set up for you, if your rad, then you have to build something rad that pleases you. Or like I say, you can build your own sled and add all the goodies you want and then put it for sale against a base level model sled and see how well you do as a business. Then you might rethink the head out of your ass comment.

I think what he would like is a premium shock package with adjustability. That doesn't mean a snowcross or hillclimb race set up, just that level of shock with that level of performance available. The premium shock package that came on my Cat didn't make it un-rideable in the least. In fact once set up for how you like to ride, they perform much better than any cheap set up. I went from a base Axys to a top line Cat. Didn't have to spend thousands more but, definitely benefitted from the premium shock package.

 

[ziggity]

^this, seems like the X model shocks have been the same for a long time, correct me if im wrong.

 

[Matte Murder]

Polaris shocks looks the business but the Axys and the Pro ride like crap. Stock Doo suspension in the rear with the last century torsion springs is WAY better in the whoops than Polaris slick looking coilover set up. The fronts are a toss up. Doo is WAY to soft, even for lighter riders, especially in deep snow. The Poo felt harsh to me and the rebound damping didn’t match the stock springs at all.
Best part about the Doo front shocks is the springs lose strength rapidly like in 5-6 rides.

 

[Ski-doo#1]

Like I said, they need to provide an option. Everyone else does. That would be both rad and wicked.

Is there not shock packages from FOX in the catalog? The option is pretty much there. It really isn't hard to reach out to aftermarket companies and learn something, something that would be nice for you to know specifically for yourself.

See the attachment. Here are your options from Ski-doo that I am sure your dealer would be happy to install. Doesn't make sense for Ski-doo to offer these from the factory. I might not even want them so it is better to let the user pcik and choose as Dave said.

 

[Motorbreath_]

Polaris shocks looks the business but the Axys and the Pro ride like crap. Stock Doo suspension in the rear with the last century torsion springs is WAY better in the whoops than Polaris slick looking coilover set up. The fronts are a toss up. Doo is WAY to soft, even for lighter riders, especially in deep snow. The Poo felt harsh to me and the rebound damping didn’t match the stock springs at all.
Best part about the Doo front shocks is the springs lose strength rapidly like in 5-6 rides.

I agree somewhat. The Polaris piggyback shocks are junk. they have "compression adjustment" that doesnt seem like it adjusts anything. I have a sp summit now and i feel like the stock shocks are just as good as the Polaris clickers honestly. I know I'll never be able to rebuild the sp shocks but they are calibrated just the same as the x rebuildables..

Also, I feel sorry for you if you think your Arctic Cat Fox air shocks are considered "premium" shocks to you.. I mean they are a slight upgrade to the sp shocks I'm using.. but that's where it ends.

I havent had any experience with freeride shocks since 2012. I loved them back then. I've heard skidoo cheaped out since then and gone to pro 36 shocks on the front. but I've also heard they ride very nice. ive seen a few bent shafts though since they went pro 36s.. makes me not what to go that route.