Registration Sticker placement?
- Thread starter Yamadoo04
- Start date
Thanks Yamadoo I understand your situation and argument. I cannot speak for other states requirements for the placement of registration tags I can only speak for what SD requires. We do require the SD decals be placed on the hood of snowmobiles and we do enforce that regulation. The fine is a $25 petty offense which I do not resort to unless someone is unwilling to comply. If a person wrecks a hood or if the tags fall off replacements can be obtained for $2.00. SD registration tags come with instruction on where to place the tags. Very rarely are decals on the hood covered with snow as compared to ones on the tunnel. Nonresident who ride in SD just need to show proof of registration since we do not enforce other states laws. SD is one of the few states left that still honors other states snowmobile registrations to ride. SD snowmobile registration fees are $10 per year per sled which is the same price charged in 1971 when registrations were first required (hows that for inflation). MPS sorry I am not the LE officer you want me to be. If I wanted only to investigate rapists and murderers I would have applied for a municipal or county position. I chose to go into natural resource LE and am proud of what I do. I have 28 years in and am 2 years beyond retirement but am no where ready to hang it up yet.
In twenty years of snowmobiling, I've always registered my sleds. When buying new, my dealer has placed the stickers on the tunnel of the sled. I've always viewed my registration fee's as "my fee" for trail groomers, employee fee's and parking lot plowing, etc. As such, I'm happy to pay the fee's as I know they are getting spent to make my experience better. Seeing it as a revenue stream (tax's) does disappoint me.
As for the sticker placement, my wife and I were with friends in Stanley, Id. in January 2011. We stayed in a cabin owned by a friends family. Their cabin was located about two miles from the highway. My wife and I took our two M sleds at the time, and we also took a 1994 Phazer which had a hitch and a little trailer. We took the Phazer to haul the sleeping bags and coolers from the trailer to the cabin. We rode the Phazer from the highway to the cabin and unloaded all of our gear. We had been at the cabin about an hour when three forest service rangers knocked on the door of the cabin. They had seen us ride in and they had came to the cabin to check registrations. The Phazer hadn't been registered since 2008. It probably still had gas from '08 in the tank as the only use has been by my kids in the field by our house. I understood the issue and I accepted the ticket from the officer.
However, one of my M sleds had the registration on the back of the tunnel, not the hood. In Eastern Idaho/Western Wyoming, the riding season can stretch into June a lot of years and we remove our hoods in the late Spring, so the tunnel is a logical location. These officers didn't agree with that logic. They ticketed me for improper sticker placement. They agreed to waive that ticket if I drove into Stanley and purchased another registration. My other M sled was still in the trailer with the registration on the tunnel as well. So we all rode into Stanley to buy new registrations as we were sure we'd get harassed by the officers if we didn't. As we rode our sleds into Stanley, I was pulled over in town once and my wife was pulled over twice! The first officer ticketed my wife and the second officer got a verbal lashing that I'm sure he still has nightmares over. As a proud Idahoan, I was disappointed in how we were treated so I rode a friends sled back to the trailer and drove my pickup to Stanley and loaded my sleds. I didn't want to ride in an area where the local law enforcement officers were abusing their authority on visitors. I paid the registrations for both snowmobiles already and it was evident by the current registrations on the tunnel. The fact that they were not on the hood was a moot point.
Our trip was cut short. I had to contact a judge in Boise to discuss my issue. I had to drive to Boise, from Eastern Idaho to present my case. The judge was a great guy. He agreed to waive both tickets on the M sleds, but I did have to pay on the Phazer. I've since spoken with law enforcement in Fremont, Madison and Bonneville counties and all of them are ok if the sticker is in a visible location. The odd thing is, I've never had a registration checked on any sled in Eastern Idaho in 20 years.
Western Wyoming is consistent with checking registrations, especially with vehicles from Idaho, but they are great to talk to and they don't care where you place the registration, even if it's in a backpack.
As an avid snowmobiler and a law abiding citizen, I feel it's paramount that we have officers that have enough common sense to recognize those who are out to cheat the system and those who are actually paying the fee's and taxes that support the paycheck they receive ON TOP OF DONATING FUNDS TO S&R AND LOCAL TRAIL ASSOCIATIONS!!
I'm sure the people in Stanley and those who ride there are great folks. It's just the money sucking officers that I have a problem with
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As for the sticker placement, my wife and I were with friends in Stanley, Id. in January 2011. We stayed in a cabin owned by a friends family. Their cabin was located about two miles from the highway. My wife and I took our two M sleds at the time, and we also took a 1994 Phazer which had a hitch and a little trailer. We took the Phazer to haul the sleeping bags and coolers from the trailer to the cabin. We rode the Phazer from the highway to the cabin and unloaded all of our gear. We had been at the cabin about an hour when three forest service rangers knocked on the door of the cabin. They had seen us ride in and they had came to the cabin to check registrations. The Phazer hadn't been registered since 2008. It probably still had gas from '08 in the tank as the only use has been by my kids in the field by our house. I understood the issue and I accepted the ticket from the officer.
However, one of my M sleds had the registration on the back of the tunnel, not the hood. In Eastern Idaho/Western Wyoming, the riding season can stretch into June a lot of years and we remove our hoods in the late Spring, so the tunnel is a logical location. These officers didn't agree with that logic. They ticketed me for improper sticker placement. They agreed to waive that ticket if I drove into Stanley and purchased another registration. My other M sled was still in the trailer with the registration on the tunnel as well. So we all rode into Stanley to buy new registrations as we were sure we'd get harassed by the officers if we didn't. As we rode our sleds into Stanley, I was pulled over in town once and my wife was pulled over twice! The first officer ticketed my wife and the second officer got a verbal lashing that I'm sure he still has nightmares over. As a proud Idahoan, I was disappointed in how we were treated so I rode a friends sled back to the trailer and drove my pickup to Stanley and loaded my sleds. I didn't want to ride in an area where the local law enforcement officers were abusing their authority on visitors. I paid the registrations for both snowmobiles already and it was evident by the current registrations on the tunnel. The fact that they were not on the hood was a moot point.
Our trip was cut short. I had to contact a judge in Boise to discuss my issue. I had to drive to Boise, from Eastern Idaho to present my case. The judge was a great guy. He agreed to waive both tickets on the M sleds, but I did have to pay on the Phazer. I've since spoken with law enforcement in Fremont, Madison and Bonneville counties and all of them are ok if the sticker is in a visible location. The odd thing is, I've never had a registration checked on any sled in Eastern Idaho in 20 years.
Western Wyoming is consistent with checking registrations, especially with vehicles from Idaho, but they are great to talk to and they don't care where you place the registration, even if it's in a backpack.
As an avid snowmobiler and a law abiding citizen, I feel it's paramount that we have officers that have enough common sense to recognize those who are out to cheat the system and those who are actually paying the fee's and taxes that support the paycheck they receive ON TOP OF DONATING FUNDS TO S&R AND LOCAL TRAIL ASSOCIATIONS!!
I'm sure the people in Stanley and those who ride there are great folks. It's just the money sucking officers that I have a problem with
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M
If ya catch someone that isn't registered on a groomed trail... I am all for giving them a ticket. They are using a service without paying for it. Our state claims 85% of the fee goes towards grooming and maintenance of trails. I VERY seldom ride on groomed trails. Deputies have no business setting up registration check points where riders are not entering an area on groomed trails. They have no business setting up checkpoints at all. That is called illegal detainment. Not to mention, if I don't want to ride on groomed trails I shouldn't be forced to pay for someone else.
I have a question for ya Ricks 32. Since you say you are a "law abiding citizen." Do you plan to comply with Obamacare? I do sympathize with the harassment you received. I expect that kind of bullchit from forest rangers, not usually from local Idaho cops. That is sad.
People do need to know their rights better. In no way shape or form did those forest rangers have the right to come onto private property to check snowmobile registration...UNLESS they visually saw that you didn't have registration on that sled when riding it. I doubt they saw that. They had NO probable cause to come onto your property and question you about your registration. If you rode back on public land and they visually saw that you didn't, that is a different story. Plus law enforcement still needs PC to detain. Checkpoints are a form of detaining someone. Checking registration (just because they feel like it) is not probable cause to stop a sledder. If the cop visually sees you don't have registration as you go by him, then he has PC....not before.
Imagine if a cop pulled you over in your car to make sure your registration was valid??? Would you be livid? There is NO difference. Or what if cops had check points to check all cars for valid registration? Sounds real legal right? Yet most of us would probably just comply like we always do.
Don't worry SDSNOCOP. The "inflation" is well covered since the number of riders since 1971 has probably increased 20 fold...and making out of staters pay a whooping 40 bucks for a 5 day permit.
By the way, I am continuing my passion... I am going into law school to become a Constitutional lawyer. I am done with an intrusive government....becoming more and more intrusive every day. I will fight it the rest of my life. Don't get me wrong we need government, just not an all omnipotent, all powerful, all intrusive one.
BTW why don't cross country skiers, etc have to pay for the groomed trails? The fee should pertain exclusively to anyone that uses a groomed trail.
If any of you on SW feel like your rights have been violated by law enforcement...shoot me a PM. I am passionate about this kind of stuff.
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I have a question for ya Ricks 32. Since you say you are a "law abiding citizen." Do you plan to comply with Obamacare? I do sympathize with the harassment you received. I expect that kind of bullchit from forest rangers, not usually from local Idaho cops. That is sad.
People do need to know their rights better. In no way shape or form did those forest rangers have the right to come onto private property to check snowmobile registration...UNLESS they visually saw that you didn't have registration on that sled when riding it. I doubt they saw that. They had NO probable cause to come onto your property and question you about your registration. If you rode back on public land and they visually saw that you didn't, that is a different story. Plus law enforcement still needs PC to detain. Checkpoints are a form of detaining someone. Checking registration (just because they feel like it) is not probable cause to stop a sledder. If the cop visually sees you don't have registration as you go by him, then he has PC....not before.
Imagine if a cop pulled you over in your car to make sure your registration was valid??? Would you be livid? There is NO difference. Or what if cops had check points to check all cars for valid registration? Sounds real legal right? Yet most of us would probably just comply like we always do.
Don't worry SDSNOCOP. The "inflation" is well covered since the number of riders since 1971 has probably increased 20 fold...and making out of staters pay a whooping 40 bucks for a 5 day permit.
By the way, I am continuing my passion... I am going into law school to become a Constitutional lawyer. I am done with an intrusive government....becoming more and more intrusive every day. I will fight it the rest of my life. Don't get me wrong we need government, just not an all omnipotent, all powerful, all intrusive one.
BTW why don't cross country skiers, etc have to pay for the groomed trails? The fee should pertain exclusively to anyone that uses a groomed trail.
If any of you on SW feel like your rights have been violated by law enforcement...shoot me a PM. I am passionate about this kind of stuff.
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Not sure on the Obamacare question. I have a hard time believing that it will actually work and be implemented Nationwide. With what little faith I have left in Government, I'm hoping we can get this stopped. For now, I'm gladly paying my premiums through my employer. My youngest has a terminal illness and requires enzyme replacement therapy once a week to the tune of $4800 a vial, of which he takes 2 1/2 each week. Plus my wife or I have to drive to SLC, Utah to have the infusion done. My youngest and my wife are getting packed for a 5-6 month visit in Minneapolis for a stem cell transplant. The cost are outrageous. Will all this said, even if Obamacare would help me out, I am still against it. It's not good for the country and we shouldn't be dependent on Government.
Sorry for the rant.
As for the topic, we didn't use any groomed trail to get to my friends cabin. We drove through a meadow and followed a fence line. There wasn't a trail to access the cabin. But I don't feel bad about that ticket. I should have thought ahead and registered the sled. Had we planned to ride the sled, I'm sure I would have done so. My situation isn't too bad as the judge made it right and he made his decision in less than a few minutes. He apologized and dismissed our case on the spot.
I believe the majority of law enforcement folks are good people, many are enthusiasts like me. Those who take their "authority" too far are the one's that we talk about and who give the rest a bad rap.
Sorry for the rant.
As for the topic, we didn't use any groomed trail to get to my friends cabin. We drove through a meadow and followed a fence line. There wasn't a trail to access the cabin. But I don't feel bad about that ticket. I should have thought ahead and registered the sled. Had we planned to ride the sled, I'm sure I would have done so. My situation isn't too bad as the judge made it right and he made his decision in less than a few minutes. He apologized and dismissed our case on the spot.
I believe the majority of law enforcement folks are good people, many are enthusiasts like me. Those who take their "authority" too far are the one's that we talk about and who give the rest a bad rap.
Ricks 32, I am glad you were able to get your ticket situation sorted out. It was unfortunate you had to travel a distance to see a judge. I assume the situation was a Federal FS Officer was enforcing ID state law which can create issues by the federal officer not knowing the history and enforcement history of those state laws. Also it creates issues because Federal courts are located in only a few location as compared to state courts located in every county (at least that how it is in SD). Also I pray for a miracle for your son. I cannot imagine what you and your family must be going through.
God Bless, Duane
God Bless, Duane
S
One last thought here, the fish cops have the capability to radio dispatch and verify your VIN that way, They did this with a sled we had last yr at tibble fork parking lot here in utah, its a pretty secluded spot to be getting cell or radio service. So as long as you have your drivers license and the fish cop has a radio they should be able to verify ownership and registration status, if they feel like being nice to you, that's a big IF.
In many cases that is possible. But even with a 50 watt police bike radio bolted to my sled I have areas I have no communication. Also some states do not enter snowmobile registrations in a data base that radio dispatchers have access to. I have no problem getting VIN info from SD and can usually get them back for ND, MN, and IA but I cannot get info on NE and WY sleds. Also on sleds with wraps over the VIN I cannot verify the registration if the VIN cannot be read. In the cases I cannot verify registration information and the owner claims the sled is registered I issue the ticket, record the VIN and give the owner a opportunity to send me a copy of the registration before I have to submit the tickets to the courts as long as attitude is not an issue. If the registration is legit I will drop the ticket before it gets to the court system. In a perfect world all I would need to rely on is a persons word but this way I can accommodate those who are truthful and still deal with the ones who lied about their registration.
They did this with my sled once up at the check point on the way to mill hallow. Sled was registered but I had just not put the stickers on the sled yet. They radioed it in and confirmed that it was registered and let me be on my way.
MPS you do have a point. They are stopping people without probable cause. And YES I would be pissed if a cop pulls me over just to make sure my truck is registered. I guess that is basically what they are doing with the sleds.
M
Thanks, notice how SD cop didnt chime in on the probable cause issue. He has no argument for it.
Law enforcement has no right to stop people and ask if they are in compliance with code 18-105b (example). That would mean any cop could set up a check point to see if you were complying with seat belt regulations or to see if you had a kidnapped victim in your vehicle. People don't blink an eye because its petty registration, but due process still applies to ALL law!
Ricks 32, i am very sorry about your son. I can't imagine. I really hope your son gets well.
My point with Obamacare is that there are laws that our unjust all throughout our country. It is the duty of the American people to resist and change those laws. I will not comply with Obamacare.
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Have no problem chiming in on the PC issue. I do not stop snowmobiles solely to check registration unless a registration is not properly displayed (required by SD law) or I recognize the displayed registration is expired. I do ride up to groups already stopped and visually look at registrations on sleds while either talking sled talk or answering questions they may have. I also stop to help those who are stuck or broke down. I do not ask for registrations unless none are displayed or the one displayed is expired. I do not ask for ID's unless I am issuing a ticket or following up on a credible complaint. I do not put on 4-5 thousand miles a year sitting in a parking lot. I do agree Obamacare is the biggest fiasco our government has ever created.
B
registration is a scam and so is insurance, u as a person are not obligated to have either. Both are your choice, get to know your rights people.
i mean wtf is registration anyway. register for what exactly? you already have a bill of sale to prove you own the title to your sled.
my opinion is registration is a way for the govern ment to sell you a very expensive sticker to fatten there already fat wallets and steal your freedom.
i mean wtf is registration anyway. register for what exactly? you already have a bill of sale to prove you own the title to your sled.
my opinion is registration is a way for the govern ment to sell you a very expensive sticker to fatten there already fat wallets and steal your freedom.
I don't know if many people heard this but the Utah legislature proposed a law restricting federal employees , park rangers from issuing tickets in ut.for speeding ,registration, and other minor offences because it was hurting tourism when the feds heard about this they went ape crap nuts and threated a law suit ,so the issue was dropped. i'm just saying . by the way im a 100% legal now it's just not worth the hassel.
B
in canada my friends, the states is no different. flex your rights and win every time.
Obedience to de facto law
15. No person shall be convicted of an offence in respect of an act or omission in obedience to the laws for the time being made and enforced by persons in de facto possession of the sovereign power in and over the place where the act or omission occurs.
Obedience to de facto law
15. No person shall be convicted of an offence in respect of an act or omission in obedience to the laws for the time being made and enforced by persons in de facto possession of the sovereign power in and over the place where the act or omission occurs.
M
I am glad you posted that. Glad to hear it. Maybe I was a little rough on you.
Right on beard.
Utah needs to stick it through. The Constitution was set up to protect states from an overpowering central government. States should have more power than the federal government...as long as the states are abiding by the Constitution. Utah needs to continue kicking the Feds to the curb. I am sorely disappointed in Idaho. When I ran for sheriff most of my campaign was centered on kicking the Feds to the curb in my county. They have zero jurisdiction under the Constitution. They base their law enforcement authority off of the Commerce Clause...well at least most federal agencies. The Forest Service is another illegal joke. The federal government had ZERO right to seize control of state public lands...completely unConstitutional. The only things they are allowed to control are ports/waterways, military installations, and D.C. of course. The federal government has been seizing control of land for a long time using the Forest Service, BLM, EPA, etc.
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B
your last 2 sentances say alot brother. would be a really interesting topic for a new thread.
C
The only time I ever got popped for stickers was in Rocky mtn NP. Some yahoo came the other direction on a speed limited trail. With a ranger setting up the barriers. He ran, I got asked for registration. I didn't have stickers yet, showed her my papers, she vin checked and sent me on my way. In Co you have a temp 60 day paper until stickers come. I rode all season on that and stickers never came, nor did a refund. Most people are good as long as they get the $ and your not an ahole.
Utah still has the law that you cannot legal transport an OHV if it is not stickered. No different than ticketing non registered cars that are illegally using the roads.
A bill was pushed through in Utah to allow manufacturers with MSO only (no title or registration) to legally bring their sleds to Utah and ride them. This was done to promote Utah as a sled friendly state to allow the manufacturers to bring in new sleds and do films, commercials, testing, etc. Boosting tourism and promoting the state as a good place to ride. It was done as a direct response to the DNR in sanpete county impounding sleds that had only MSO and no title or registration.
And stop with the whole "taxation without representation" nonsense. If you voted to put people in as representatives and senators into legislature on local, state, or federal level then you are represented. If you didnt vote... well I will just leave it at that.
A bill was pushed through in Utah to allow manufacturers with MSO only (no title or registration) to legally bring their sleds to Utah and ride them. This was done to promote Utah as a sled friendly state to allow the manufacturers to bring in new sleds and do films, commercials, testing, etc. Boosting tourism and promoting the state as a good place to ride. It was done as a direct response to the DNR in sanpete county impounding sleds that had only MSO and no title or registration.
And stop with the whole "taxation without representation" nonsense. If you voted to put people in as representatives and senators into legislature on local, state, or federal level then you are represented. If you didnt vote... well I will just leave it at that.
M
Thanks for sharing your propaganda. Voting? That's just ignorant. Maybe you need a lesson in the rigged two party system. Maybe you should research what the founders said about a 2 party system. Ignorance is bliss eh phatty? I will just leave it at that.
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so you thinking voting is ignorant? really? LMAO...
and since when is voting a 2 party system? the party system has nothing to do with the act of "voting". parties are groups of citizens who hold to the same ideals. you may vote for a party if they match your ideals OR you can write in a vote anywhere you want, OR you can vote for any individual in any party who you would like to represent you. Furthermore you can make your own campaign, as you have done in the past, and put get yourself elected if you think nobody else is qualified to represent your values. the founding fathers set up a system to allow as many parties as this nation citizens see fit to form. speaking of the founding fathers, perhaps it is you who needs to read up on what taxation without representation actually means and why they used the slogan, and you might find out that snowmobile decals/registration is in no way taxation without representation. Accusing me of being ignorant doesn't change the fact that snowmobile registration is clearly not "taxation without representation."
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