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SNOWEST IS GETTING GREATY

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IceCap

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I am not picking on anyone .... but I find it interesting that there are members that feel that they bestow so much more info than they glean.
I guess for some members they feel they will not glean $10.00 a year worth of info from this site...... Is this the reasoning for not wanting to pay?
 

christopher

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they may be back..but I doubt they will be as free flowing with the info as they were in the past..I know I wont be..

Until tempers cool off and emotions settle down, I agree with you.

There are still many who have an axe to grind.

But it is already much better than it was just a couple months ago on this issue.
 

AKSNOWRIDER

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Until tempers cool off and emotions settle down, I agree with you.

There are still many who have an axe to grind.

But it is already much better than it was just a couple months ago on this issue.
I agree with you on that christopher...
OK.

I will bite on this one.

As a paid supporting member of SnoWest, how would you have the us treat "you" better?

Not "me" chris, but "them"...the real members of snowest who made this place what it was..(my presense here means nothing to snowest nor will it affect snowest future one way or the other)as has been said before many times over by many here, the bells and whistles do nothing for the site...its the content of the site that needs help..those members out there who used to be the heart of snowest (and yes there are bad apples in every bunch that arnt needed)but that basic group of members who fled the site during the last 6-8 months are needed here(especially since no one has stood up or signed on to replace them)How snowest goes about that.I dont know..but what your doing now isnt working in regards to bringing those members back or that type of member here from other sites...one thing I have heard repeatedly is the " our way or the hiway" attitude is a major problem as is the total lack of control of moderators(although that has certainly improved 10 fold here lately)..as for what else and what the key is to bringing in those quality members...maybe a sitdown roundtable that involves chuck harris, you, the mods, and an open invitation on all sites for former members to come and sit at the round table and voice their opinions.(assuming managment will listen to those opinions and act upon them...)also allowing snowest to voice their opinions..at least this way..everything is finally out on the table...and it does show an honest effort by all to reach an amicable compromise....cant be that hard..for one month have an open area in the chat room and different times(maybe 3 times each day, morning, midday and evening for a 1 hr period) where at least you, chuck, and those mods on line will be present to live chat with any who care to come and converse....I honestly dont know if it will help, or not..but I am sure that it wont hurt....
 

AKSNOWRIDER

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of course it is, but I was curious as to the reasoning? Just trying to understand..

sort of the same reason ruffy you go and pick verbal battles with certain members both here and on other sites..you could leave well enough alone and just agree to disagree but instead you jump right in and get a argument started..I have no need to start or finsish any argument..but I do have a choice on what info I share and what I dont..i promise, I do wish to see snowest prosper, but I also feel snowest needs to listen to its members..especially members that played a big part in making this place what it was...(and no I dont consider myself to be one of those although I have made contributions that benefitted members here)...
 
S

Slick

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Nov 26, 2007
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But you are a perfect example.

No spin in my post at all Slick.

Just a very good example of the claim we have been making for the month or two now, that we have a very large number of long time members, just like you, that ARE still coming to the site, reading the posts and threads, staying abreast and well informed on whats going on at SnoWest and choosing not to post, or in your case, choosing to only post in threads critical of SnoWest.

Still fully believing you can manipulate and conive your way back into the good graces of the upset members and return this to a successful site is I suppose in some peoples eyes a good trait to display. You know , stick-to-it-iv-ness and conviction and the obvious attitude that "they'll come running back" might work, good luck with that. Just imagine if my posts weren't critical of Snowest, eliminate them and all others of the same vein, plus eliminate all the posts defending critical posts, then eliminate all posts by mods..........not really a picture of growth and knowledge sharing or commaraderie left there, and just imagine, 5 months or so of down time coming up.
The assumption that these members will return and forget this situation just based on time passing is so full of disrespect and self-importance that it further demonstrates the attitude that is so prevelant among you, your mods and the owners of this site.
Like many others, this has motivated me to investigate other sites and its been quite rewarding, some of them even I can hardly find anything to be critical about..........and you can even have a bit of fun at each others expense without the, big brother, bleeding heart, can't we all just hug and get along, attitude.
 

christopher

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You know , stick-to-it-iv-ness and conviction and the obvious attitude that "they'll come running back" might work, good luck with that.

The assumption that these members will return and forget this situation just based on time passing is so full of disrespect and self-importance that it further demonstrates the attitude that is so prevelant among you, your mods and the owners of this site. .
Beats the heck out of me what makes you think I ever said anything like that at all?

I have NO such assumptions whatsoever.
NONE.

We had a few dozen that left in Anger and Rage and who have genuinely never come back, at least not in a manner that we have been able to track.

But more have gone into "lurker" mode, and those are the ones we will work on bringing back out into the light and being participatory as the spring and summer roll along.
 

backcountryislife

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But more have gone into "lurker" mode, and those are the ones we will work on bringing back out into the light and being participatory as the spring and summer roll along.

And I guess what so many of us want to see, what is it that you're going to do that would bring them back around?

I have asked in a decent tone, as have many, but the only things you talk about are things none of us care about. Please show that in at least some little way you understand what we're talking about.

None of us can understand how it is that you feel you will improve the site.
 

christopher

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And I guess what so many of us want to see, what is it that you're going to do that would bring them back around?

I have asked in a decent tone, as have many, but the only things you talk about are things none of us care about. Please show that in at least some little way you understand what we're talking about.

None of us can understand how it is that you feel you will improve the site.

The first thing we are going to do is to exercise a large dose of PATIENCE.
We understand that Nothing is going to happen quickly.

We fully understood that things were going to get "Very Hot" when the transition occurred and that we would loose some members over it. That was clear to us from mid-October when the discussion of moving to a paid format first got ugly. We have no secret plans on going after those that chose to leave.


What we are going to do is to focus in on the new Premium Members over the next 6 months and work with them to build up a new core membership on the forums, and to get them to participate on a more active daily basis. They are the ones that took a stand and choose to support the new format of the site. We have a TREMENDOUS reservoir of knowlege in the membership of this site, but we have only a small number who have been out in the open with it.

One of the reasons that SnoWest made the decision to make such a massive change to this forum, was because of the comments from industry members of their disdain for these forums. They had a HORRIBLE industry reputation as a hotbed of discontent and unending warfare. The owners decided to make a conscious deliberate choice to change that.

We want to build a place where we can bring in the major players in the Snowmobile industry to actively participate with riders. We want this site to evolve into a real resource of information that comes directly from the horse's mouth, and not just hearsay from enthusiasts, and detractors hiding behind aliases. And yes, there were many instances of Dis-Information being put out for purely business purposes by members using Alters to hide their true identity. Anonymity does wonders when your a grenade tosser.


A hundred shrill voices were allowed to drown out Ten Thousand others.


If you were not willing to put on a Nomex suit, and dared to say something that the ruling group disapproved of, your were going to get pounded into the ground by them. SnoWest was not always a very friendly place to come to. I can't begin to tell you how many times I was contacted by members asking me to intervene and stop the attacks against them. For lack of a better term, we had a bunch of bullies running loose on the playground.

As you previously noted, the aggressiveness of the moderation has already been pulled way way back. As the vitriol has dissipated, so has the need for most of the moderation that was responding to it.

For me, right now we are still focused on the structural foundations of the forums, and will be for some while yet. I understand that you don't care about the structure, and that little or none of it is important or of any significant interest to you. But we still see it as the foundation that we are going to be building up the new forums upon, and want to get it done and behind us. Our expectation was that overall activity on the forums would collapse rapidly from Mid March through early May, and reach it's summertime low for May/June/July/August. Our plan for SnoWest is not based on the short term, we are in it for the long haul and expect this new foundation to last us several years into the future.
 
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snowmobiler

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maybe some kind weekly giveaway will bring some back.goggles or ?.people like getting stuff for free.
 
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backcountryislife

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We want to build a place where we can bring in the major players in the Snowmobile industry to actively participate with riders. We want this site to evolve into a real resource of information that comes directly from the horse's mouth, and not just hearsay from enthusiasts, and detractors hiding behind aliases.

This would be a perfect example of the content that I asked about, but yet there's MUCH more emphasis on patience (ie: doing nothing) than there is on actually getting moving & driving toward this actually happening.

If it's a matter of things being in the works & it's being dealt with, by all means I understand, but the abstractness with which you speak about this in, makes it seem to me that you're not all that serious about it or that you just expect them to come out of the woodwork & participate (industry people that is). It's hard to figure out what the actual plan is, but if you were to let the members of the community know specifically which positive steps are going to be taken you may see a more positive sentiment sooner rather than later.


Or we could work hard on the patience (doing nothing)... whichever.
 
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IceCap

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Nov 27, 2007
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There's a lot of talk about how to entice the members back. I maybe in the dark but I really don't understand why they left in the first place??

From reading between the lines the only take I have on it so far is that some members expected preferencial treatment, as in (they) provide more benefical info than other members?
Someone enlighten me.
 

christopher

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This would be a perfect example of the content that I asked about, but yet there's MUCH more emphasis on patience (ie: doing nothing) than there is on actually getting moving & driving toward this actually happening.

If it's a matter of things being in the works & it's being dealt with, by all means I understand, but the abstractness with which you speak about this in, makes it seem to me that you're not all that serious about it or that you just expect them to come out of the woodwork & participate (industry people that is). It's hard to figure out what the actual plan is, but if you were to let the members of the community know specifically which positive steps are going to be taken you may see a more positive sentiment sooner rather than later.


Or we could work hard on the patience (doing nothing)... whichever.

Sorry that I seem to be asking so much of you while we work on so many things behind the scenes.
 

backcountryislife

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Sorry that I seem to be asking so much of you while we work on so many things behind the scenes.

Yet another useless comment that does nothing more that re-affirm people's dislike for you when they're trying to have what should be a simple & cordial discussion.

Instead of any kind of useful response.


THIS IS EXACTLY WHY PEOPLE ARE LEAVING & WON'T COME BACK.

This WAS a community, you obviously just don't get it. Every stupid little comment like this just makes one more person have no interest in helping this forum move forward.

You're obviously just SO rooted in trying to be sneaky & feeling like you're in control & want no one else's input that you just are incapable of even this simple discussion.
 
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