SNOWEST FORUMS: Member Comments on "Letter to All Members"

[Ollie]

Are you suggesting that we could divide this discussion into SUB-FORUMS?

What type of navigation would be best?

Could one sub-section go into one of the two swapmeets?

You would need 3 moderators, cross references and 5 dollars please.

 

[christopher]

The repeated statement that they were trying to enlist "real industry players" to join the forum to replace the members who chose to leave.

Not to replace, but to supplement.
Many have stated to us they will not participate on the forums as they are currently constituted because they have no interest in dealing with the flames, harassment, attacks, ect. So they avoid all the forums. We hope to be able to convince them otherwise in 2010.

supporters, no matter how new or how few posts, are thanked and rated positively.

Sorry to offend you, but I do not give out Negative ratings, and I can see no reason in passing out postive ones to people who are making negative or destructive comments about the site.

It is obvious that user feedback is being heard. This thread is proof that, at some level, there is acknowledgment that there may be a problem.

this thread is proof that I DO listen to and read all the comments. That I made a commitment to read each and every reply to this letter by members of SnoWest. And that we all understood that this would likely result in some very unhappy and displeased members that would take it as an opportunity to lash out. And so I am doing my best to stay on top of it.

He has said that the industry "experts" have mandated these changes and that they know better than we what we want.

No, I don't think I ever said that. I said they choose to have me implement a long list of upgrades to the site, they never mandated it. The only thing that I was told to do in a very detailed specific manner were the sub-forums in the Snowmobile section, and now, after much feedback and comment, those are being examined to see if there is a better way to serve the needs and wants of the entire membership community. But that is Mountainhorse's project for the moment.

People joined this site because it was the best place to meet and talk with knowledgeable "players". REAL PLAYERS like mountainhorse and a host of others who FREELY gave out VALUABLE information.

And that will likely remain a reason people continue to join this site in the future

The real players in the forum industry are the users. Ingore us at your peril.

If I was ignoring you, I wouldn't be replying to hundreds of these posts, now would I.....

On the bright side, it's dumping snow right now!!!!!!!!

Couldn't come a moment to soon.

 

[MtnDoo]

Steamboat-RN: They call those UniCycles!

Ollie:

 

[christopher]

Has Harris considered a family rate?

As someone who does not get into the techie side of stuff much I really do enjoy the other parts of the 4m and the friends I have made on here.

That should have been in the text of the letter.

Only one paying person per household.
All other family members will be free.

 

[dsp81]

DSP81:

I think this one takes second place for unintentional irony.

 

[christopher]

For fear of being redundent......... Why are the advertisers not covering the cost of running this site right now????

I am not involved with the advertising that you see on the site nor how the rates are determined. that is all handled by a different part of the company.

 

[Scott]

I haven't been on here in 36 hours...and WOW this thread got long.

I'd like to think everyone is talking about how to make the site better in a positive way.

 

[CatWoman]

This post is not visible because unicornaddict is on your ignore list

LOL........oh, wait.......ummmm......

 

[snowmobiler]

think ill hang out with the poor people in the free section.

 

[christopher]

Why are the moderators not being used to force ALL the people hocking their wares on here to pay a reasonable fee???

Because the SwapMeet is intened to be a free buying and selling zone for the entire community open to one and all.

But, if you are not a paid advertiser, then there are not supposed to be any ads in any of the main forums. Those found, are to be moved down into the swapmeet.

 

[XC700116]

I haven't been on here in 36 hours...and WOW this thread got long.

I'd like to think everyone is talking about how to make the site better in a positive way.

Bwahahaha, keep dreaming

And Christopher, It's obvious even to me, one of your biggest critics that you are making a concerted effort to reply to all serious questions in this thread. Good luck with that, you've got a long night/week/month ahead of you.

 

[christopher]

so just curious...are all the other Harris forums that we are sharing servers with also getting charged or are those sites going to remain free?..and since all of these sites have been sharing equipment doesnt that mean that all of those advertising dollars from all those sites were paying for the same equipment?...seems to me 3-8 sites all on the same equipment would be a pretty good revenue as it is.......

The other sites are run by other separate divisions of Harris Publishing which I am not associated with. I don't really know anything about them at all, other than that they all live on the same series of servers that we are on right now.

How corporate divvies up cost and accounting for each of them is unknown to me.

 

[smwizzz]

Better.

DSP:

I am not picking a fight, do not wish to participate in any ridiculous banter so please do not take this to heart. I agree with many of your statements. We all realize that it is difficult to juggle 30000 + ppl. I know that change brings dilemma and most times in the form of complaints. From a buisiness perspective a decision has to be made and followed through. I believe there will still be plenty of ppl here after the fact... just the way it is. They may not be the same ppl, but they will be here just the same. Quite frankly, I don't know you and don't know if you even ride a sled. If I was to look at the previous posts and take heed to what you have written I would say I don't care what you say, this is what I think of you. Something you need to realize: Most ppl read some of the first page of a thread and if they like it skip to the back and maybe leave a comment. So like I said the previous posts don't always mean the whole thread, just the last few posts. I have run large construction crews and dealt with ppl in progress, mark up and pre-bid meetings, along with safety meetings and so on. My experience is that everyone wants to say what is on their mind. I do... don't you? It is not how smart you are or how well you do your job that counts, it is how well you treat the ppl... which IS!!! what a forum is about. Again, I stress I am not picking on you, I am meerly stating that the way you approach the issue is very important. You will NEVER please 100% of the people 100% of time but if you make them feel like you appreciate what they say then you will gain their respect. On many occasions I have said no to people. Most of the time (family aside), the response is taken well because I took the time to point out the simple facts that make my way the best way. Not always true, but everyone is somewhat satisfied. Please don't point fingers and single out folks here. Don't bring crap to the table that has nothing to do with the matter at hand. It is meaningless and the respect you deserve is lost in the banter.

This is the last time I will make a comment regarding this matter. I promise!!!

I'm not trying to discredit the opposition. I think they do a pretty good job of that on their own. I'm not picking sides here because I honestly don't care which direction things go. Don't know Christopher and have never met him. I've only been back here about 5 times in the last 4 years.

I was around, however, when the FuseTalk was updated - and there was a riot (And there was usually a riot every time an incremental upgrade occured). I was also around when the change to VB happened - and there was a riot. I was also around when the SwapMeet changed - and there was a riot. You may be seeing a pattern here. I was simply commenting that this happens every time. And as an aside, it's usually the same people leading the revolt.

As a moderator, you can't banter with the membership because then you are asking for everyone to question every decision you will ever make. I invite you all to open your own site, add 30,000 users and try to play referee. People will say the damndest things perched behind their keyboards. It really isn't that fun reading through every thread trying to pick out (sometimes highly) objectionable material or looking for morons who post **** on a site with this much traffic.

I do, however, find all this angst aimed at me pretty entertaining. It doesn't matter what I say, MPS, MtnDoo, and their ilk will go after me. They perceive me as the enemy because anyone who disagrees with their position is not only wrong, but stupid (and they probably just don't like me, the person they've never met). They'll grasp at straws and shoot back the obligatory "I know you are, but what am I?" (which has already happened a couple times). I don't take what they say personal because I have no clue who they are. In real life I'm sure they're nice enough guys. There is just something about anonymity and distance that gives people the confidence to say whatever may strike the brain.

But the fact is that they're still not really privy to all the information involved in making the decisions for the direction of the forum. I understand that a lot of people here feel like SnoWest is their home and they feel like their home is being bulldozed. But this is a business, and I'm guessing that Harris Publishing is in a better position to decide how best to monetize their assets. User feedback is important, but not dispositive. At some point, they have to make a decision and push towards it.

Perhaps people could refrain from launching personal attacks at the owners and accusing them of poor business management. Or they could voice their displeasure once, instead of writing the same thing half a million times and attacking anyone who might disagree with them. If you're really that displeased by the direction, then go start your own site and have a go at it. If it really is a bad business decision, then SnoWest forums will fold and you'll all end up on your feet at some other forum. I doubt it will happen, but prognosticators will be prognosticators.

 

[Scott]

I think this one takes second place for unintentional irony.

Dave? Is that right? You haven't been on here in a LONG time.

 

[christopher]

Christopher: Do you hear what people are telling you?

Every single word.

 

[Cheeto]

I am not involved with the advertising that you see on the site nor how the rates are determined. that is all handled by a different part of the company.

Have you considered asking someone? It seems clear to me that this is a pretty big issue. According to you, HP claims the site hasn't pulled its own weight for the past 11 years. According to nearly every free site on the web, advertising revenue pays for the site. You are the liason between the users and the owners. We've asked the questions...go get the answers please.

 

[Sturgis Sledder]

I am not involved with the advertising that you see on the site nor how the rates are determined. that is all handled by a different part of the company.

WTF!?! You don't know the rates? THAT is exactly where the money needed to run and maintain the forums should come from. You cannot honestly tell us that the advertising on this site does not generate a whole lot of cash for the advertiser. They should be paying per click AND a percent per sale, as I said if company x is selling widgets for $500 it would behoove them to pay SW 7 to 9% per sale. They are not going to find a more targeted buyer anywhere else. Also there would be nothing wrong with putting a 2 or 3% charge to list parts and whatnot in the swapmeet, based on the asking price.

 

[christopher]

Again, and I will type this slowly so even people from UT can understand.

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY

Its all about perceived value.
Those that see the value will pay.
Those that see no value will bail.

In the end, we hope more will see value than not.

 

[christopher]

Likewise!

I'd gladly contribute $69.95/yr for an "Old Dog" membership if CHRISTOPHER WOULD LISTEN TO US!!

It is NOT about money!

Christopher listens to every word that comes out of your keyboard.

 

[Steamboat-RN]

Its all about perceived value.
Those that see the value will pay.
Those that see no value will bail.

In the end, we hope more will see value than not.

Again we agree.
This has got to stop.