I tested ZF vs Timbesled vs Camso

[powderrider72]

Hey, I thought I would share some comparison between snow tracks, as I had the opportunity to test few side to side including the coveted ZF kit. Yes, the WA based cascadeadventure company rents snowbikes and they have some unique choices to choose from, including ZF, so it was a great comparison test. I have ridden my friend’s Aro 3, it is a good kit but not ideal for my taste – I like to go deep and steep. Aro 3 spools slow feels long, and I often saw it not climbing as well as camso . I think it is because the 11.5 wide track – it just tend to dig in easier, you don’ t know it until you ride a 12.5 track. Yes, aro 3 climbs better than an Aro 120 in the deep, but not better than other brands, and it is heavy. I rode a camso last year, my first kit, loved it, sold it because I wanted something lighter to jump it, so I am looking to buy new kit, and renting from cascade adventure was great to compare few brands. So, here are my impressions:

One rental was a 2020 Riot but with a camso style 11.5 wide track installed. Good bike, can’t tell the camso track is better than the stock timbersled track, unless I compare side by side, and I think I like the 12.5 wider camso original track better, but timbersled only takes 11.5 , but the kit did well. Yes, It was a riot, but don’t think you can just pop a wheelie very easy, I still needed a small bump to help me out, I thought wheelies will come easier – nope : ).

Then, I tried the 2023 ZF kit – omg!.. that thing is a beast, the 2.6 lugs and 12.5 wide track climbs like crazy. It reminds me of the camso performance in the deep, maybe even better, but in a lighter version , good suspension, and the length is 127!!!. This 127 doesn’t feel long, it is nimble , and because of the stiffer lugs it hooks up and wants to wheelie not any worse than the riot I tried – you just give it gas and it pops up . It sits very close to the bike frame so it felt like a 120 long , but a 129 performance. That is my 1st choice, and as a bonus it comes at a more reasonable price. Apparently ZF has been the company’s favorite too, they prefer to ride it when it is not rented.
BWT, Sam has a Yamaha R1 in a dirtbike frame with Aro3, I did not ride it, but it looked insane.

Apparently the ZF dealer is here in WA, so Sam from cascadeadventure purchased one from him , and I think ZF is what I want to buy.

 

[JimBridger]

What kind of snow conditions? Guessing you're in Washington, so wet and heavy, or did you travel somewhere to test?

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Can’t help but chuckle at the “!!!!” When talking about snowbike performance.

I’ve built, owned and ridden 9 different snowbikes and not even the 800 2 stroke or the ninja 636 made me put any blasphemy or exclamation marks by my ride reviews.

Sounds like a great kit though. ?

 

[powderrider72]

well.., yea.., triple !!! for the 127, I thought it was unique in the industry length, hence deserving the triple marks : ) , but no joke , it may indeed be the sweet spot. - give it a test if you have the opportunity. It is great to have more brands compete, it pushes them all to make better products . I am sure each kit has some personal preference factory but I can't imaging anyone riding ZF will say this kit is not on par with any other system, it looks high quality too.

Jim - when it comes to conditions, yes snow on the heavy side, at Mt Baker, WA, , but not what we here call heavy-heavy snow on that particular day.

 

[powderrider72]

... parts availability for ZF might be one question but having a US dealer should make any anxieties go away.

 

[danGo]

Not sure if you guys saw me trying to follow up and contact the ZF dealer in that other earlier ZF topic here, but I ended up meeting him and he showed me the kits, we talked, a great guy, his name is Emo. He does stock parts, so that should not be a problem ( I asked the same), and he said that if needed they do 2-3 day DHL express shipping for anything needed. Apparently, Canada has ZF dealers, but he is the only one in the US now.

One other thing - I was one kit I saw, had the Ohlins high performance shocks - let me tell you these are not the cheap air shocks you see in other kits, yes you heard me ! : ).. these are oil shocks, top of the line Ohlins. For those who understand shocks, oil shocks are on another level , beset dampening, etc. This is a universal opinion between the pros for any application - MX, snowmobiles, you name it. The ZF kit might have the best shocks , as an upgrade option, and they are specifically designed by Ohlins for this kit, not just a generic model slapped on. Just like a motocross bike , it has compression and separate dampening quick turn knobs, that you can twist and adjust on the hill. ...., but they are probably not a cheap upgrade : )..

 

[Excalibur]

Okay danGo, What kit are you referring to "cheap air shocks" ? I have a new MTN Top kit, which I believe is the only kit currently with air shocks in the actual skid suspension. And the shocks are far from cheap, design or price. And pretty sure they have oil in them. The ZF kits look good and Ohlins are a great shock (not sure if they are better). Hopefully a few more on the snow comparisons to come.

 

[danGo]

I actually took some pics of the Ohlins shocks while in the ZF garage - they look too cool in gold to pass on. : )

I was hoping you don't ask what I ride - my buddy has Aro 120 LE with the fox shocks I have tried his kit, they ride plush and soft , but too soft, will bottom out on big jumps, they feel springy . In general I think air shocks are "cheap" on the timbersleds, the manufacturer is just charging us too much. And I borrow my buddies old bike/ kit , a Mt horse 120, with standard shocks , ....so I am shopping to buy my own kit now, and I will likely place a ZF order. I am curious however about the MtTop shocks, they look different and cool too - you like them, a? , lots of buzz around that kit for sure, It looks good, I just can't afford 10k : )

 

[eric82930]

I actually took some pics of the Ohlins shocks while in the ZF garage - they look too cool in gold to pass on. : )

I was hoping you don't ask what I ride - my buddy has Aro 120 LE with the fox shocks I have tried his kit, they ride plush and soft , but too soft, will bottom out on big jumps, they feel springy . In general I think air shocks are "cheap" on the timbersleds, the manufacturer is just charging us too much. And I borrow my buddies old bike/ kit , a Mt horse 120, with standard shocks , ....so I am shopping to buy my own kit now, and I will likely place a ZF order. I am curious however about the MtTop shocks, they look different and cool too - you like them, a? , lots of buzz around that kit for sure, It looks good, I just can't afford 10k : )

A shock is a shock is a shock. It doesn't matter how cool they look or how many knobs they have. It boils down to spring rates and valving. And all air shocks also have oil. The better ones have a negative air spring to make the spring rates more similar to a real spring. I think it's fine for people who review something to regurgitate what they read from a mfg advertisement but it's also a good chance for people to be educated that advertising propaganda is very prominent in this business. The zf kit looks good to me. The 12 wide light weight and stuff paddles, nothing exotic for a fair price. I'm really excited about the ski. I want one. I've got a cmx ski here to trade someone if they want a more aggressive pow ski.

 

[needpowder]

Pow72 thank you for your feedback. It will be interesting to see when more of these kits become available. We snowbikers have become a skeptical bunch as there is always a latest and greatest or upgrade (pr2) that someone reputable has claimed to be the best thing ever that we all need but turns out to be a waste of money. Yes i’m talking about you mtn-doo. I hope the ZF kit works well in all conditions. Washington snow is much different than the snow we ride here in Utah. Time will tell. Always good to have more options.

 

[powderrider72]

Eric82930, the shocks that was on the ZF were the standard version , not the ohlins, they worked well, I can't compare and know if the Ohlins upgrade is worth it. But, you reminded me that I did not talk about the ski. I did not feel the ski has any advantages or disadvantages in the powder and side hilling. However, on groomed trails that ski for sure rails better and washes out less compared to other skis, which resulted in me being less fatigue getting to the deep snow. I think that better edge hold however translated in a little more bite and drag when going over whooped out sections with some snow on top, just different feel there, and again once you hit the hills and get out of trails it worked just fine, no complaints.

Hey "needPowder", yes snow in the pacific NW of WA is different , where I tested. I am curious in Utah, being so light, what do you think makes a good track design - long paddles?, soft?, hard ?? I can't tell how the ZF deep powder performance that I felt will translate into a very light snow deep conditions, but I honestly can't imagine the timbersled narrow track design will do better in the deep and fluffy, wouldn't it sink more ??

 

[needpowder]

Pow72, we mostly ride the 3 inch kits here. Mostly Riots but a few Aros. (at least in my group).The thing about light snow though is it is not consistent everywhere. It blows off ridges and then I often wish I had a stiffer paddle because I am spinning out. Also, when it gets deep, we often poach sled track on some routes. Again, a stiffer paddle would be beneficial I feel. Our light snow never really covers all the rocks, stumps, etc. Doesn’t matter how much snow we get. We ride rocks all season. We just ride it on different lines! Heavier cascade style snow covers more consistently. As far as the flotation, isn’t the Polaris sled still 14 inch wide well the skidoo is 15? I haven’t really looked at sleds for a while, but it never really seemed to make any difference there. We need more side-by-side comparisons!

 

[Sowa]

What's everyone's thoughts on the exposed rear brake?

To my understanding every other manufacturer went with a sealed setup to keep the rear brake from freezing up.

 

[jrlastofthebreed]

What's everyone's thoughts on the exposed rear brake?

To my understanding every other manufacturer went with a sealed setup to keep the rear brake from freezing up.

CMX has an open brake. Never had brake issues. Its always there. What they have found is a flexible frame will allow that driveshaft to move a little causeing the brake disk to wobble pushing the pads out. Once ice and snow gets in it gets worse. It torque on the shafts is balanced and the frame is ridgid open brakes should be fine

 

[Answ3r]

CMX has an open brake. Never had brake issues. Its always there. What they have found is a flexible frame will allow that driveshaft to move a little causeing the brake disk to wobble pushing the pads out. Once ice and snow gets in it gets worse. It torque on the shafts is balanced and the frame is ridgid open brakes should be fine

Using the bike's stock front brake will also make for a floating caliper setup which is a lot less prone to pad push back due to flexing or disk warping.