Raptor Dual Ski - Ride Reports / Details

Chadx · Dec 23, 2015

Starting a thread for ride reports, mods, etc. for the Raptor dual ski setup. There were a few threads about them in the past with lots of speculation, and some reviews combined with CMXBK reviews, but rather than revive those, lets collect ride reports, mods, issues, etc in one spot now that they are in the hands of consumers and on the snow.

Especially interested in reports from those that have lots of seat time on non-cmxbk kits and then swapped to the raptor front end so the evaluation can be isolated and focused on the frontend change only.

Also interested in skag evaluation, what people are trying for a wheel kits, etc.

UPsnowbiker · Dec 23, 2015

Exactly what he said.

screech · Dec 24, 2015

You don't want my review... I ride a cmxbk and love it! Cmx mods the skags on them and I really think it helps. I have taken plenty of small trees in the center with no problems. Floats well and handles corners very well! But that could be due to the modifications to the ski also.

Don't read my comment. It's from someone who rides cmx. ?☃☃?

Chadx · Dec 24, 2015

Ha. Didn't mean it like that screech. And I hope to get over and ride with mark, you, mike, etc. on a cmxbk to not only try the raptor front end, but the cmxbk as well. In the meantime, I thought it would be interesting to isolate the raptor front end from the cmxbk since I imagine the kit plays a big part in the overall feel and it would be interesting to hear what it feels like from someone that had a bunch of time on a kit with a single, traditional ski, but then changed to a raptor front end on that kit.

The whole reason being, if I can't scratch together funds for a 2016 or 2017 kit, of one brand or another, to replace my 2014, it may be possible to get just a raptor front end. Also, I'm more than just a little concerned that if I tested a cmxbk, I couldn't be trusted with my wallet. Asking from a keyboard keeps everything at arms reach and closer to "excitement neutral". Ha.

tillbuilt · Dec 25, 2015

It's amazing what happens when you ask!!!!

I just happen to have a full CMX unit sitting here waiting to go on a 2016 Yamaha YZ450FX, but the bikes have not got here yet. So I was thinking the front end on my 2015 Yamaha YZ450F KMS turbo bike is the same, so why not answer your question and my curiosity too. I have put over 30 hours on this bike with a 2016 TS ST. So I know how it rides and performs.

The first thing to do is weigh both front ends to see the weight difference. I did not think about the Raptor front end not using the axle so it's weight is heavier by 11oz. on the scale.

The Raptor front end is over 6lbs. heavier than the TS.

The quality of the Raptor components are nicely machined and the fitment is impeccable. Most of the joints are fitted male and female for a perfect fit and placement. The mounts and brackets provide a much stronger ski mount / spindle than the TS. MY BIG CONCERN IS: I have damaged many TS spindles, ski saddles, and fork clamps over the years. I have only replaced two sets of forks with all of these super hard hits. This Raptor front end is built so well that if you take a hard hit I do not see any weak points that could break away. The weakest point is the plastic ski saddle formed into the ski. You might get away with a ripped ski, but snapped forks are very probable. Time will truly tell.

The instructions were well written and had pictures to help along. There was no drilling required, but no user adjustment to caster angle like the TS. So if you do not like the ski pressure there is no adjustment.

The Raptor skis cover a little over 14" in width. Where the TS is 10" wide.

The axle bolt to bottom of the skag's are within 1/8", so it shouldn't change the track approach angle enough to feel the difference.

Both have poly bushings to protect the fork from the clamps, and both have about the same amount of fork travel.

With the round paddle track on the 2016 TS it is tipsy sitting on the hard floor with the TS ski. The Raptor twin skis sure help it stand up on its own.

Expect a full ride report after Christmas.

Chadx · Dec 25, 2015

Tillbuilt! This is perfect! Thanks for taking the time and being so thorough. I'm a "details" guy so not only appreciate the detail, but the amount of time it takes to gather and post that level of detail.

Anxious for your next raptor update after your ride! ...and your cmxbk updates in one of the cmxbk threads...and your yamy 450fx update in the 450fx thread. Ha.

screech · Dec 25, 2015

Chadx said:
Ha. Didn't mean it like that screech. And I hope to get over and ride with mark, you, mike, etc. on a cmxbk to not only try the raptor front end, but the cmxbk as well. In the meantime, I thought it would be interesting to isolate the raptor front end from the cmxbk since I imagine the kit plays a big part in the overall feel and it would be interesting to hear what it feels like from someone that had a bunch of time on a kit with a single, traditional ski, but then changed to a raptor front end on that kit.

The whole reason being, if I can't scratch together funds for a 2016 or 2017 kit, of one brand or another, to replace my 2014, it may be possible to get just a raptor front end. Also, I'm more than just a little concerned that if I tested a cmxbk, I couldn't be trusted with my wallet. Asking from a keyboard keeps everything at arms reach and closer to "excitement neutral". Ha.

It's all good haha I was just being a turd...

UPsnowbiker · Dec 25, 2015

Great post tillbuilt. I look forward to more.

tillbuilt · Dec 27, 2015

Christmas Day brought 6" of champagne powder to the Denver area, so I decided to take my life into my own hands and test the Yamaha YZ450F with the CMX front end in the WORST possible conditions for a snow bike. PAVEMENT!!!!!

The Raptor carbides dug right through the ice on bottom and the track immediately spun. After getting it going on the road where the cars had packed the snow it was an easy ride. I could weave back and forth watching the skis work independently. It was poetic. As soon as I left the packed lane they dropped right through to the asphalt and my knuckles stared to turn white. I was in control and was able to steer. I road 1/2 mile down the street and came back home. It was better than anything I had ridden before, but I did take the driveway at an angle and it washed the skis out. I crashed right in front of the neighbors. They all know to grab a beer and a lawn chair when they see the shop open up.

I felt the ride was so good I need to make sure it wasn't just the snow. I took the TS out and gave it a whirl. It took right off. The steel skag's did not bite into the concrete and the track did not spin. Once I got off the drive was it was terrifying!!! I knew I should have worn my helmet. The center skag cut right through the hard packed lane to the pavement and in the fluff it was a death ride. No directional control, immediate pull into the curb and bounced off. Feet dragging out of control. I made it 1/8 of a mile and turned around. I took the driveway straight on this time and did not put a show on for the neighbors.

When loading the bikes into the trailer the carbides on the Yamaha Raptor are very grippy, on the ski glides. I did not carry enough speed and flopped it over on the ramp door, once again putting on a show for the neighbors. My second attempt was at a much higher speed which was very uncomfortable, but was successful.

mikew5945 · Dec 27, 2015

Washed out???lol
One thing to check.
Check the install of the ski rubbers. The bottom part of the spindle has the arrow pointing back and install the rubbers tall side forward. It will go against what you know but the washing out will be way less in the hills.
Can't wait to hear when you hook up the CMXBK. That too will be totally different.

tillbuilt · Dec 28, 2015

Just to be clear, the front end did not wash out due to the install or the design of the front skis. It washed out because I tried to cross an icy curb at a 45deg. angle. I never expected it to pass this portion of the test ride.

mikew5945 said:
Washed out???lol
One thing to check.
Check the install of the ski rubbers. The bottom part of the spindle has the arrow pointing back and install the rubbers tall side forward. It will go against what you know but the washing out will be way less in the hills.
Can't wait to hear when you hook up the CMXBK. That too will be totally different.

Ted baycroft · Dec 29, 2015

Install

So you are telling us to install the x2 shoe in the exact opposite way the Raptor instructions state. You are suggesting the arrow on the shoe to point back instead of forward and the fat end of the rubber forward instead of back. Wouldn't that make the ski dive. Thanks for your input.

idahosnow · Dec 29, 2015

I took out both a 2014 ktm 450sxf w/a CMX and raptor skis, and a new yamaha 450 fx w/a new timbersled kit. there is a night and day difference between the two kits, with the timbersled being the clear winner.

The CMX does not have that balancing point the timbersled has, and is easy to dump sidehilling or when making sharp turns. The skiis do not stay on top of the snow well at all. There was a few times i went over the handlebars of the CMX today when i would hit jumps or go over drifts, the skis just dug straight into the snow.

I was switching off between the timbersled and the CMX bike with a buddy throughout our ride, and we both thought the same thing. We both got handled pretty good by the CMX bike and both will have big bruises on our thigh/legs to prove it.

We were riding in about 20 inches of fresh powder on a nice deep firm base. pretty much perfect conditions for snowbiking. a few days earlier, when we took the Cmx out the first time, there wasn't that 20 inches of fresh. the cmx did a lot better without all of that fresh fluffy powder.

screech · Dec 29, 2015

I have a cmx and switched with a buddy the other day with a ts. The ts ski handles nice in the powder but would like to dive under the snow a lot. I seem to think my raptor floats a lot better but might have a little stiffer steering in the pow.

Chadx · Dec 30, 2015

Thanks for the updates, guys. Keep 'em coming as the season progresses and you throw these Raptor front ends at more and more various conditions.

For an important data point, can you also mention if you're running stock fork springs or extra firm replacement springs in both the raptor front end kitted bikes and timbersled front end kitted bikes? (since that makes such a difference with diving, etc.) Thanks!

tillbuilt · Dec 30, 2015

I chose to install the X2 on the Yamaha Turbo because it already had heavy springs in the forks. This is my favorite setup for the TS.

I will be testing today with the setup you see and the TS front end on the 2016 Yamaha YZ450FX with a CMXBK 120 I just picked up yesterday afternoon. I will swap the front ends back and forth to test the TS front end on the CMX and the X2 on the TS, and then back to the original front end with the correct intended skid.

This should be a fun day!!!!

I got done building the YZ450FX at 1:30am, and now I am jumping in the van to hit the mountains.

Chadx said:
Thanks for the updates, guys. Keep 'em coming as the season progresses and you throw these Raptor front ends at more and more various conditions.

For an important data point, can you also mention if you're running stock fork springs or extra firm replacement springs in both the raptor front end kitted bikes and timbersled front end kitted bikes? (since that makes such a difference with diving, etc.) Thanks!

CRAZY MOUNTAIN XTREME · Dec 30, 2015

idahosnow said:
I took out both a 2014 ktm 450sxf w/a CMX and raptor skis, and a new yamaha 450 fx w/a new timbersled kit. there is a night and day difference between the two kits, with the timbersled being the clear winner.

The CMX does not have that balancing point the timbersled has, and is easy to dump sidehilling or when making sharp turns. The skiis do not stay on top of the snow well at all. There was a few times i went over the handlebars of the CMX today when i would hit jumps or go over drifts, the skis just dug straight into the snow.

I was switching off between the timbersled and the CMX bike with a buddy throughout our ride, and we both thought the same thing. We both got handled pretty good by the CMX bike and both will have big bruises on our thigh/legs to prove it.

We were riding in about 20 inches of fresh powder on a nice deep firm base. pretty much perfect conditions for snowbiking. a few days earlier, when we took the Cmx out the first time, there wasn't that 20 inches of fresh. the cmx did a lot better without all of that fresh fluffy powder.

Thank you for your feedback. I would like to go over some setup points with you that can make a big difference in performance. Please give us a call any time to discuss. 406-686-4921 Thanks, Mark @ CMX

mfatty · Dec 30, 2015

Reply

CRAZY MOUNTAIN XTREME said:
Thank you for your feedback. I would like to go over some setup points with you that can make a big difference in performance. Please give us a call any time to discuss. 406-686-4921 Thanks, Mark @ CMX

Never get a response from timbersled like that ! I have a TS and think the cmx is going to be right there with it on the perform end imo..

mikew5945 · Dec 30, 2015

Ted baycroft said:
So you are telling us to install the x2 shoe in the exact opposite way the Raptor instructions state. You are suggesting the arrow on the shoe to point back instead of forward and the fat end of the rubber forward instead of back. Wouldn't that make the ski dive. Thanks for your input.

Yes if and only if you bought it from CMX. Arrow back and fat end forward.
If you buy it from Raptor you are on your own. Use his instructions. Don't get me wrong, it is still a good setup. When Mark moded the Raptor ski that setup became the best.

grizking · Dec 31, 2015

Kit is sold

I have a Raptor kit for KTM, that I am going to sell. One ride on it. $800.00. Located in Kalispell Mt

Raptor Dual Ski - Ride Reports / Details

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