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Mountain Ice Crusted Snow Riding (Non-riding) from the hard to anticipate, Solar melting and the nighttime refreezing.

whoisthatguy

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This thread is meant to highlight the total failure of the Snowmobile industry to build sleds that can operate in the common conditions that they have a pre-existing duty to build sleds for. In olden days, spring sledding and sledding during long stretches between fresh snow, started early and ran late. Now, with the birth of a new generation of an apparently highly uninformed sled design team, the expensive tall lug mountain sleds will be lucky if they can leave the snow park before noon, if they don't want to be stopping frequently on the trail. Frequently being every 5 minutes. Single sets of ice scratchers just aren't enough to overcome this engineering catastrophe, that the snowmobile dealers have normalized into being perfectly acceptable.
 
C
Mar 15, 2018
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I suspect tat if you buy a sled designed for hard pack trial riding, cooling would not be an issue but it would get stuck as soon as you leave the trail. I don't think it is practical to expect a sled that is perfect for all conditions. That is why there are different models built specific ways. I suspect that could build a "mountain" sled with better cooling for the hard pack trail getting to the pow but it would likely be at the cost of something the\at mountain riders desire (weight perhaps). I get your frustration for sure but mountain riders typically ride 99% of their miles with plenty of cooling and I doubt that many would want to make even the slightest compromise in the backcountry performance to alleviate the relatively minor inconvenience of having to stop and dig a bit of snow for the tunnel to cool it a couple times a year.
 

hansenmac

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not many would buy it but a 153 by 1 or 1.25 would be and awesome sled. I wouldnt buy it for the riding i do in the mountains but in ND it would be great, and for many western riders that dont get into the trees and ravines it would be great too.
 

deanross

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All depends where you like to ride. I upgraded my 2.25 to a 2.6 and would never go back. Looking forward to a 3” someday. I also have a sled with a track under 2”, don’t remember exactly what size but it’s horrible in the powder.
 

hansenmac

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the 3 inch powerclaw is a beast of a track i've got an 18 mtn cat and i love it but if the snow is iced over or super hard it doesnt bite at all. in a perfect world you would have two sleds for the different situations.
 

whoisthatguy

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The rare 04 Polaris Vertical Escape 159 is an all around ars kicker on both ice and powder, with a 2" Camoplast Challenger 3 blade across track, and an SLP single exhaust. It has so much pulling power that you need to add extroverts in order too keep from ratcheting the track. You are first one out of the ice covered snow park and first one on the mountain.
 
A
Nov 26, 2007
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You're right the cooling is a disaster. I was out with a group of turbo sledders a couple weeks ago and all six were parked on the side of the trail with shovels out cooling in an effort to make the next few mile pull to the mountain. Had we waited another hour prior to leaving the parking area we would have been fine. I personally really enjoy crusty springtime snow when that initial melt hits it, one inch of slush on well set-up snow makes for outstanding traction and fun mountain climbing. Waiting until 11:00 or 12:00 to ride in the spring has become the norm.
 
J

Jaynelson

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Different vehicles for different applications. A Corvette doesn't do great off road...and a lifted 4Runner doesn't do great at 100mph on the highway. Both have 4 tires and drive down the road. If you are buying a new-age short tunnel, long track, turbo mtn sled....you are buying a very specialized piece of equipment.
 
A
Nov 26, 2007
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I have been leaning towards a turbo sled as of late, but after what I'm seeing on the side of the trail this season I'm not sure it's the way to go. I ride ALOT, like 80 days per season, good snow or bad snow, I think any snow is awesome. I've got a lot of buddies riding turbo doo's, Cat's, and the new Boost, they all have their heating issues in marginal snow. I'm still riding a NA 850 that I thought was a heating nightmare, but as of late I've found it cools quiute well compared to some of the latest factory offerings. I am pretty sure my spring riding days would be numbered on some of these new machines. Food For Thought!!
 
J

jim

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The difference between overheating and running well down the trails is knowledge. People who argue this don't have the knowledge, so there's that. Yeah, some newer sleds and turbos can get hotter more easily but how you use your scratchers, throttle, speed and in what conditions depends on knowledge. I've seen icy days where guys complain about overheating...but if they go a bit faster and get airflow into the hood and kick-up snow dust into the tunnel/track, you can run just fine. Knowledge.
 

kanedog

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You're right the cooling is a disaster. I was out with a group of turbo sledders a couple weeks ago and all six were parked on the side of the trail with shovels out cooling in an effort to make the next few mile pull to the mountain. Had we waited another hour prior to leaving the parking area we would have been fine. I personally really enjoy crusty springtime snow when that initial melt hits it, one inch of slush on well set-up snow makes for outstanding traction and fun mountain climbing. Waiting until 11:00 or 12:00 to ride in the spring has become the norm.
This is the way to ride.
Get up at 8am, fill up in t shirt at around 10-1030.
Unload in the sun. Laugh at peeps who unloaded at 730am and wiped out on the big icy climb or over heated in the trail. Hit the first big hill at about 1130am.
The snow will be melted about 4” down and sun will be bright and warm.
This strategy works best above the tree line with big pulls. Hahaha
 
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sno*jet

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The rare 04 Polaris Vertical Escape 159 is an all around ars kicker on both ice and powder, with a 2" Camoplast Challenger 3 blade across track, and an SLP single exhaust. It has so much pulling power that you need to add extroverts in order too keep from ratcheting the track. You are first one out of the ice covered snow park and first one on the mountain.
good sleds, typical polaris rebuild intervals. still needs scratchers. 2000 and up mountain max FTW.
 

BeartoothBaron

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My "new" Pro does pretty well, but it's got an added cooler, full flap, scratchers (obviously), thermostat upgrade, and medium-lug track (2.5") - basically the best-case scenario. I have had one day where I struggled a little and spent some time piling snow on the tunnel. If I could afford two full-bore mountain sleds, one would probably only be for good snow: bigger track, no extra cooler (less weight), no snow flap, and the other would be more like the Pro. It's a lot harder to uncut the tunnel and put the cooler back on, so I stick with what works. Actually, it's coming time to take my old EDGE out. Once you get much into springtime, the best you usually find is mashed potatoes over a heavy crust, and even on the best of sleds, carving and technical riding turns into more work than fun. I think the dirty little secret is that the Summit Xs and Matryx alphabet soup sleds aren't remotely meant to be rode in spring conditions; you've got enough money for one of those, you must have money for one of our even more expensive side-by-sides. If your sled's overheating, it's Poo/Doo's way of telling you the season is over.

Anyway, I agree with @kanedog and @AdrenalineAddict, the key to spring riding is to let the melt work for you, not just give up til next season. Everybody gets so wrapped up in videos of the newest chassis in up-to-your-armpit snow. If I saw that all the time, I might even make a stupid (considering my budget) decision on a sled I couldn't really afford. The reality is, we don't get those days that often, and I can't afford to go chasing it either. Doesn't matter though: guys dressed more like Larry Enticer, goofing off on old iron in June are every bit as hardcore riders as the Facebook/Instagram darlings. I can't totally blame Doo/Poo/Cat for building a sled that only works well in deep snow if that's what sells, but they could at least give us some options to get enough cooling, other than settling for a heavy crossover that's too wide with not enough track.
 
S
Jul 7, 2001
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2 rides ended with just a few miles. Buddies 22 Matrix cooling was super poor. He added Ibexx scratchers and they really helped. Moved the scratchers forward and they work on that sled tons. Moving it forward with ibexx scratchers did not cool my 14 pro as well as my old cable version.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Ox

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This thread is meant to highlight the total failure of the Snowmobile industry to build sleds that can operate in the common conditions that they have a pre-existing duty to build sleds for. In olden days, spring sledding and sledding during long stretches between fresh snow, started early and ran late. Now, with the birth of a new generation of an apparently highly uninformed sled design team, the expensive tall lug mountain sleds will be lucky if they can leave the snow park before noon, if they don't want to be stopping frequently on the trail. Frequently being every 5 minutes. Single sets of ice scratchers just aren't enough to overcome this engineering catastrophe, that the snowmobile dealers have normalized into being perfectly acceptable.

The sled in the foreground here (foresnow?) will doo exactly what'chew ask for.

It is a 550 fan RMK with a 163, mesh hood, and K&N intake filter.
A vibrating monster for some reason, but it will float on the powder without overheating on the hardpack, not that this guy has ever rode hero snow, but if he did .....

A Fast/Blade following.

DanBillCrestedButte.jpg
 

Ox

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Here is another oldie, but it shows my chums '02 Edge that he always had cooling issues with, yet had all kinds of issues with ice build-up at the back of the tunnel.

Finally he bought a used Doo cooler and modified it to fit at the back of the tunnel in place of the little Poo cooler.
He didn't have cooling issues anymore, and he quit having 30# ice chunks wanting to get plowed through the bulkhead.

Pol ice 1.jpg Pol ice 2.jpg Pol ice 3.jpg
 

gonehuntnpowder

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Sadly enough these days we all act like if we aren’t on a “dedicated” 150 plus 3 inch paddled monster we shouldn’t be off trail and if the snow isn’t over the hood it’s not worth going. I think it used to be better. Indy 500, Phazer, Formula Plus, ext, maybe on those gigantic deep snow days you may not get far from the trailer, but you still had fun, and we would ride thanksgiving to Easter. We looked forward to the crust.
I spent most of the winter being a snow snob and setting on the couch. Turns out the snow was better in February than it will be in July.
 

Clark42

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Sadly enough these days we all act like if we aren’t on a “dedicated” 150 plus 3 inch paddled monster we shouldn’t be off trail and if the snow isn’t over the hood it’s not worth going. I think it used to be better. Indy 500, Phazer, Formula Plus, ext, maybe on those gigantic deep snow days you may not get far from the trailer, but you still had fun, and we would ride thanksgiving to Easter. We looked forward to the crust.
I spent most of the winter being a snow snob and setting on the couch. Turns out the snow was better in February than it will be in July.
sounds like a personal deal. My first ride was November 10th, and I just finished 3 days in a row riding in April, with no intention to park the sled soon. Ridden blower snow, ice and everything inbetween. The 'glory days' are not over
 
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