Know the boundaries

[Nychaze]

http://www.steamboattoday.com/news/2016/jan/08/some-snowmobilers-not-following-rules/

Some great press for us snowmobilers...

This is the type of thing cannot happen if we expect to keep areas open for the years to come. It only takes a few idiots to ruin an area.

Know the boundaries of where you ride. You can't expect the forest service to put up a sign every 10ft. If you have $5-15K to spend on a sled, you have enough to get a gps. Or learn to read a topo map of the area, easy enough to match up ridge lines and get a sense of where the bounds are.

Educate the people you ride with, spread the word. If you see someone headed out of bounds, flag them down, and educate them. We have idiots out there that I am guessing for the most part just don't know. If we want to keep areas open we have to band together and keep the idiots from ruining it for the rest of us.

Rabbit Ears/Buff Pass Map - lean it, print it and put it on your sled.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5274222.pdf

 

[mmaxcarver]

Here is what made up years ago, buddy of mine and I rode out the boundary one spring day and I marked it out as we went... After so many years of riding there nowa days I just know when I'm too far west....

 

[CO Powder]

You realize that this is exactly what the people stealing your rights want you to do right? They make unconstitutional rules and get you to follow them and guilt your peers into following too?


If you are tired of losing your sledding rights maybe consider PROTESTING the closures rather than abiding by them. You guys that think we can all get along if we follow the rules made by the opposition are the dangerous ones to our sport.


That hasn't EVER worked and it wont work going forward. You will continue to lose lands because you are complacent and willing to accept rules made by liars and cheats.


Good Luck

 

[nfinit100]

while I agree with the sentiment. When something is already closed, protesting through legitimate means will likely gain more favor than negative media from "poaching" areas.

No one is saying lay down and take it. Joining local snowmobile associations and helping out with the legislation that they are assisting with promoting will go much further to help the cause. Contact the North Park Snow Snakes club and see how you can help. Otherwise we will be on the defensive instead of offensive.

I see all too often people just wanting to be "left alone" and allowed to do what we all should be allowed too. This is unfortunately the state of many different things throughout the nation. Guess it's time to stand up or lose.

 

[Nychaze]

If you are tired of losing your sledding rights maybe consider PROTESTING the closures rather than abiding by them. You guys that think we can all get along if we follow the rules made by the opposition are the dangerous ones to our sport.

I agree 100% with the first part of that. We all need to do more as a snowmobile community to have our voice heard so areas stay open, or maybe more areas open back up. A public protest of some kind would be a great way but, if you think you and your buddies riding into wilderness is going help us as a "protest" you will only be working against your fellow riders.

If you could get a bunch of people and clubs to ban together and publicly announce a ride into an area that was once open, that would be considered a protest and might get a better press release.

 

[rhalloran]

The article is not exaggerating, either - I was in the hybrid/ski part of Buff yesterday - a foot new snow, we were among the first out - LOTS of tracks straying from the "designated route."

I agree with protesting closures. I disagree, strongly, that ignoring signs is going to benefit anyone but the FS and anti-motor people - and contesting that $500 ticket might keep some of that $500 out of the FS coffers (or wherever it goes), but it'll certainly not keep it in the offender's pocket. FS ranger issues citation for user willfully disobeying marked closure? That ticket is not getting dropped, and NOW the (likely non-snowmobiler) judge or magistrate has an instance of "snowmobilers don't follow the rules."

They won't see it as a "protest" or "civil disobedience." ahhh flip the broken record.

1. Land closures to sleds tick me off.
2. People who contribute to lands getting closed tick me off.
3. Two or three or five guys disobeying a closure because they want to ride wilderness REALLY tick me off, because see #2.

A group of 400 sledders lining up against the edge of a boundary with reasonable explanations as to why the land on the other side of the boundary should be open (beyond "IT'S MAH RIGHT!!!") would not tick me off, at all. In fact, I'd probably go.

Don't forget the first amendment:

---

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

---

"petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Blowing off a "no motorized vehicles sign" (aside from the one on the fence leading into my backyard) is not "petitioning."

 

[CO Powder]

while I agree with the sentiment. When something is already closed, protesting through legitimate means will likely gain more favor than negative media from "poaching" areas.

You will NEVER "gain favor" with the group that is stealing land from you. That is a naïve assumption. Basing your argument on a false premise like this will not make you successful. Dr Phil would call it denial...LOL

No one is saying lay down and take it. Joining local snowmobile associations and helping out with the legislation that they are assisting with promoting will go much further to help the cause. Contact the North Park Snow Snakes club and see how you can help. Otherwise we will be on the defensive instead of offensive.

I tried all of that years ago, dedicated a good chunk of my life to it. I assume you are new to the fight. Good for you for thinking you can make a difference!


You are already on the defensive, you have been since the fight started. That is why you keep losing...

I see all too often people just wanting to be "left alone" and allowed to do what we all should be allowed too. This is unfortunately the state of many different things throughout the nation. Guess it's time to stand up or lose.

You are so late to the game here it isn't even funny. Then you want to play by the rules that have kept us in the losing column for DECADES.


If you are going to stand up, you better substantially up your game. You had better start considering what I am suggesting, an offensive strategy. What I read in this thread is more of the same old FAILED plan to try and work with the thieves. They just read your posts and laugh, another easy kill for them because you have accepted their rules.


You are caught in their trap already. You accept the lie that breaking the rules they made for you will set you back even further.


Good Luck.

 

[nfinit100]

there are always multiple opinions on how to change things, you can burn it all down, you can compromise and open the door to future compromise, or you can organize and stand up, among many other options. Working with the local clubs and organizing is the best way in my opinion. Fighting internally and discouraging others doesn't help a cause we all want to fight for. Making assumptions doesn't either.

In one single article a small group of riders has done more damage than the hundreds if not thousands who do it right. I am not naive enough to think the land will be re-opened but I am also not ignorant to the fact that if these things go to a vote snowmobilers are outnumbered significantly (20:1 or so) and we will soon find extreme limitations that make our current environment seem like a utopia.

I am no where near the rider that most people on this forum are, but that doesn't mean I haven't done my part.

sad thing is, I agree with almost everything said, it's the voice of a frustrated individual who is fed up with ignorant people meddling where they shouldn't.

gotta love the interwebz.

 

[CO Powder]

I suspect that if this happened all the time, it wouldn't be news. Nobody would really care because it hasn't been proven to hurt a darn thing except ego's.


If truth like that got out... heaven help us.


Claiming the club route works is not supportable with facts. Despite the clubs best efforts we continue to lose more and more land. It has been that way for several decades. It isn't working just because you say it is. There are no facts to support your claim but plenty that support my contention that closures continue to expand at an alarming rate.


Time to wake up and try something new I think...

 

[simple]

It generally isn't local people that are riding in closed areas it is out of town snowmobile riders.

Do the right thing and educate the visitors. You wouldn't let a rider go into avalanche terrain so why would you be silent if you see them going into closed areas?

Don't be scared to speak up. If you see someone riding in an area off limits just tell them they did it but don't be a dick about it. If they get pissy just be cool. It isn't offensive. We aren't the cops. The FS will give you a ticket and possibly take your snowmobile. We local users just have voices and lead by our actions and that is powerful enough to make changes.

 

[CO Powder]

It generally isn't local people that are riding in closed areas it is out of town snowmobile riders.

My experience is exactly the opposite...

Do the right thing and educate the visitors. You wouldn't let a rider go into avalanche terrain so why would you be silent if you see them going into closed areas?

Because closed areas won't necessarily kill them? The closures are all flawed IMO. Sticking up for them is doing the oppositions work for them.

Don't be scared to speak up. If you see someone riding in an area off limits just tell them they did it but don't be a dick about it. If they get pissy just be cool. It isn't offensive. We aren't the cops. The FS will give you a ticket and possibly take your snowmobile.

This is definitely a risk but certainly not the norm.


I also know some guys that might not take your advance kindly...

We local users just have voices and lead by our actions and that is powerful enough to make changes.

That is a delusional statement if I ever read one LOL.


What if my opinions as a local are not in agreement with yours? Kinda makes your blanket statement sound silly. In fact I can't think of a single local around here that would agree with you and, I organized the local club. Most I know of are tired of the land theft.


Your ideas haven't worked. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result.


Good Luck

 

[simple]

CO Powder. First off thanks for what appears to be many years of fighting to keep snowmobiling. Secondly, you have to be the most negative person I've seen on a forum. When did it become your job to shoot everyone down?

I would hope that you are not an active member of a club any longer because with your crappy attitude I can't see snowmobilers gaining any advantage.

The only thing I'll give you is that snowmobilers aren't going to gain any additional land for usage. The primary goal now is to maintain what we have and work actively with other users in a positive environment. The chip on your shoulder, anti-government bull**** only makes the vast majority look at you like you are a relic of the past old wild west days. Those days are over.

So go ahead and pick this post apart. I couldn't care less. I'll stick with what works for me. So good luck to you in your trolling efforts. Calling me delusional and insane just shows how out of touch you are.

 

[DDECKER]

 

[CO Powder]

CO Powder. First off thanks for what appears to be many years of fighting to keep snowmobiling. Secondly, you have to be the most negative person I've seen on a forum. When did it become your job to shoot everyone down?

Just trying to get you guys up to speed. You seem to think this is a new problem and you are going to make headway. That is naïve at best. This fight has been going on for over 50 years.

I would hope that you are not an active member of a club any longer because with your crappy attitude I can't see snowmobilers gaining any advantage.

No, we disbanded the club because nobody cared about the land use issues we were facing, and I can drink beer at home cheaper than the bar they insisted on meeting in.

The only thing I'll give you is that snowmobilers aren't going to gain any additional land for usage. The primary goal now is to maintain what we have and work actively with other users in a positive environment. The chip on your shoulder, anti-government bull**** only makes the vast majority look at you like you are a relic of the past old wild west days. Those days are over.

I would be willing to bet you, those days are coming back.

So go ahead and pick this post apart. I couldn't care less. I'll stick with what works for me. So good luck to you in your trolling efforts. Calling me delusional and insane just shows how out of touch you are.

Thanks for the invite! Enjoy my smart remarks above.


Now let me tell you what I know. One of my best friends was a logger in the PNW, and his dad before him worked in the woods in the industry. Land use fights started waaaaaay back in the 60's. Same goals, same groups, same type of people. It is progressive, they eat away at your rights slowly bit by bit. Then you end up with what we have today. More nonsense rules that do nothing but increase with every passing year.


Do you think we were the first ones to take up this fight? I know for a fact that it started before I was born. The tactics you encourage today are the same ones that they have been losing with now for 50 years, congratulations, you are a pioneer, a visionary!


My friend warned me when I took up the cause almost 15 years ago now. He was right, I was wrong, and unfortunately, you are wrong too. This is a fight you can not win using the conventional plan. You are aware that one of the best advocate groups for sledding EVER had to disband after ten years of banging their heads against the wall. I have been deep enough into it myself (private, State level meetings) to know FOR SURE, that your way will not work.


Unfortunately it never has. Sure you can cherry pick a few minor victories but in general the last 50 years of negotiating and working with others has netted us several lost industries and severely curtailed recreational opportunities all over the country.


That sir is the record you are running on? Seriously? And you expect people to get on board with that?


Good Luck




We are ants under their boots. Even if every sledder donated every penny of their income we still would not even come close to the budgets of those with the boot.


My contention is that a bunch of us ants ought to crawl up into the boot and bite the som biotch stomping on us. Otherwise, all we continue to do is feed the bully...

 

[bushy]

doo it!