Gearing down...

[Falcon1772]

so I'll admit I don't know much about gearing other than gearing low = torque and gearing high = speed
I believe my 2018 154 has a 21/51 setup. I've been considering trying a 19/51 setup. Can anyone comment on this? Pros cons? I like tree riding mostly. Some hill climbing here and there. Anywhere from 500ft to 6000ft.

 

[donbrown]

so I'll admit I don't know much about gearing other than gearing low = torque and gearing high = speed
I believe my 2018 154 has a 21/51 setup. I've been considering trying a 19/51 setup. Can anyone comment on this? Pros cons? I like tree riding mostly. Some hill climbing here and there. Anywhere from 500ft to 6000ft.

Go here and constant for your sled should be 50.2 Best RPM 7900 to 8000 https://www.ibackshift.com/calculator

You'll loose top end speed and gain more throttle control. Same power band at lower speed. So more power/torque at lower speed. Better control in the trees. Wont trench as much. Belt will be cooler. Suggest to do a clutch kit if you want to lower clutch engagement.

In running 19-51 on 154 / 3 in lug getting 70 MPH at 8000 RPM. Lots of control at low speeds. Accelerates faster off the line since further into the power band at lower speed. Running 966 RAMPS.

 

[rab]

What are the two lbs/rate numbers on the stock 2019 154 summit primary spring ?

 

[Tylerdurdan]

In running 19-51 on 154 / 3 in lug getting 70 MPH at 8000 RPM. Lots of control at low speeds. Accelerates faster off the line since further into the power band at lower speed. Running 966 RAMPS.[/QUOTE

21/53 On my 17 154 3" can I swap to a 19 tooth with no other mod. I still have clutch heat right now.

 

[NoSoup4U]

21/53 On my 17 154 3" can I swap to a 19 tooth with no other mod. I still have clutch heat right now.[/QUOTE]



Yes. My 18 175 came with 21/53 and I changed to 19/53 without any other modification. Been running it for several hundred miles, and wouldn't go back to the stock gearing. Clutches run a little cooler, acceleration is even stronger, pulls even harder with more consistent RPM on the hills and in the powder. Only possible down side is top speed is around 60, but I'll gladly trade top speed on the trail for the benefits. You shouldn't be going over 60 with a 3" track anyway.

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

I had another customer (this one from Calgary) call me tonight and talk my ear off about how happy he is after he did the GNR alignment on two of his 175's. (17 and 19)

After beating the pissouta his sled and measuring temps 2/3 up the primary clutch at 195 to 205 degrees. This is 80 to 90 degrees lower than he had before the alignment procedure.

The performance with my kit and add the alignment on top, his track speed went up again and eating his Cat buddies lunches. He had quite the cheerful laugh about his temps and eating Cats.

Since 2 more witness of his temperature drop on two sleds over the weekend past, now he has those guys going to his garage to pay him to do the GNR alignment on their sleds.

Oh...so he said if anyone in the Lower Alberta area wants to have the GNR alignment procedure done on their G4's to give him a call. He's gonna have all the GNR shims to be able to do a handful of sleds.

...and that's my take on "finally"getting the temperature down on these G4 clutches. I can't do my own sled for another handful of weeks because how busy my shop is; but i caint wait. Im going out this weekend to on-purpose, destroy a 571 belt and see what kind of temperatures it will take. This is my data recording before I "get ripped" with GNR.

 

[Falcon1772]

Forgot to mention my sled has a 2.5" track. Idk if that makes any difference.
And how easy is it to go over the danger speed? I thought the gearing kinda limited that? I do like to go fast occasionally but I know this sled isn't made for top speeds and if I do change it over I'll be more mindful of my speed but Im curious as to how easy it is to do it by accident and what happens if you do? I wanna say my speedo said I've hit a Max of 86mph so far.

 

[kanedog]

With 19/53 the max speed you want to go is around 102kmh. Not sure about other gear ratios. Joe knows.

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[Matte Murder]

With 19/53 the max speed you want to go is around 102kmh. Not sure about other gear ratios. Joe knows.

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Speak American! I did the gear change on my 175 G4. Haven’t had a chance to ride it yet but man is it grabby on engagement loading it up. Seems like the belt isn’t slipping at all lol.

 

[Teth-Air]

Speak American! I did the gear change on my 175 G4. Haven’t had a chance to ride it yet but man is it grabby on engagement loading it up. Seems like the belt isn’t slipping at all lol.

Most of America is metric, other than the States that is. From the tip of South America to the North pole. Only the USA is old-school.

FYI I rode a 19 175 Doo G4 x 175 and a 18 FreeRide 165. The higher gearing felt much better to me as the 19 was too touchy on the throttle as these motors are super punchy on the bottom end. Tree riding requires finesse and I found the low gearing and harsh jump a bit harder to control. Just my opinion and based on the type of riding we do.

 

[kanedog]

63.5 mph.

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[kanedog]

Most of America is metric, other than the States that is. From the tip of South America to the North pole. Only the USA is old-school.



FYI I rode a 19 175 Doo G4 x 175 and a 18 FreeRide 165. The higher gearing felt much better to me as the 19 was too touchy on the throttle as these motors are super punchy on the bottom end. Tree riding requires finesse and I found the low gearing and harsh jump a bit harder to control. Just my opinion and based on the type of riding we do.

It's jumpy because of the high engagement primary spring. I think the 18's came with a crazy 200/400. 19's are a 150/350.
The best would be a 120 start.

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[Tylerdurdan]

So what's a definite answer for my 2017 with 21/53 154 3inch on clicker 3 and riding 7 to 95 elevation with hot belt temps

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

I have 155/375 primary springs. Makes the engage 350 lower than stock 170 start force spring (estimated)

My #1 focus on my clutch kits was stopping the surging the stock clutching has and/or 170 primary springs. The handlebars wanting to pull out of your hands when trying to smoothly move forward.
When I was doing a sidehill, wrong foot forward at 3700 what a pain in the butt trying to maintain throttle control to keep the primary engaged to move. And then stinky winky belt smell, choking out your buds who are trying to follow you. haha
Then when possible to keep 3700, the sled was too fast.

Dalton made me springs with forces I needed to get the engine speed down at engagement.
and then worked on these "ramp add-ons" [Popeye arms, pull strong to the finish] to make the engage feather smooooooooooth.

Engagement speed can be adjusted from 2900 to 3300 rpms.

 

[Ox]

3700'

Joe - where doo you ride to test?

You drive all the way to AB?

So surprised that you are in TB as there doesn't seem to be hardly any sledders from there.


.

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

Howdy. Yup I get to go out west and test in Revelstoke area (27 hr drive) but have tested down in Cooke city(24hr drive), and up as far as Tumbler ridge.

I do all the initial testing here in N.Ontario about 1.5 hours away up in the area of my summer cabin. Elevation 690 to 1500 feet. Snow out in the jackpine areas is good wet/heavy auger down kind of snow. We get really mint lake effect snow up north.

When i get something I figure is an improvement to work on, then I send parts out to a small army of test guys in Canada/Usa/Norway/Sweden. Collect feedback/data from them and tailor whatever product im doing.

Ox)So surprised that you are in TB as there doesn't seem to be hardly any sledders from there.
Joe) Yep, Kinda wish it would stay that way. But getting more sledders every year. All brand snowmobile dealers here are selling less amount of trail sleds and more long track sleds. Its almost like a 146 is the new 121 here. Its getting harder to hide from these people, keeping our secret snow stash's a secret. (Google earth and bigmouths blabbing on local facebook sledding sites)

 

[Ox]

I've been riding N Ontario for over 20 yrs.
Have settled for Algoma area these days for the hills and the lake effect.
Should be in Wawa right now, but truck died Friday morning.

I have searched out my own secret spots (routes) but have had others backtrack my tracks.
So I know what you mean.

Been trying to develop a new secret route for years, but not figgered out the access yet.



.

 

[Matte Murder]

I did the gear down on my 175 recommenced on this thread. I’m pretty picky about who I take recommendations from on the internet and rarely take advice from guys named Ace or Dog but I wanted to try this. Did the gear change right before the huge snow dump we had a couple weeks ago, rode 4 straight days in 4-5 FEET of pow.
This is actually the first time I’ve made a clutching change and felt a dramatic improvement. I’ve done ALL the updates available from new and the only thing I could really feel was adding weight last year. This gear down actually feels like the sled is making more significantly more power. My engagement is 3800-4000 but on the snow it’s super smooth. I ride a lot on the G4 1/4-1/2 throttle, this engine makes so much torque you can get 8000 rpm on half throttle a lot. Going flipper to the bar just digs DEEP holes most of the time.
One thing I also noticed is it feels like the sled is using all of the primary now, like is has an extra gear on top and it just rolls so smoothly thru the full range. I was getting 40-41 mph track speed on the gauge in bottomless pow at 275 lbs ready to ride and another 20lbs on the tunnel.
I had a 19 tooth from my XM so it was essentially free for me but I’d highly recommend this $30 upgrade. Thanks Ace and KaneDog

 

[donbrown]

Howdy. Yup I get to go out west and test in Revelstoke area (27 hr drive) but have tested down in Cooke city(24hr drive), and up as far as Tumbler ridge.

I do all the initial testing here in N.Ontario about 1.5 hours away up in the area of my summer cabin. Elevation 690 to 1500 feet. Snow out in the jackpine areas is good wet/heavy auger down kind of snow. We get really mint lake effect snow up north.

When i get something I figure is an improvement to work on, then I send parts out to a small army of test guys in Canada/Usa/Norway/Sweden. Collect feedback/data from them and tailor whatever product im doing.

Ox)So surprised that you are in TB as there doesn't seem to be hardly any sledders from there.
Joe) Yep, Kinda wish it would stay that way. But getting more sledders every year. All brand snowmobile dealers here are selling less amount of trail sleds and more long track sleds. Its almost like a 146 is the new 121 here. Its getting harder to hide from these people, keeping our secret snow stash's a secret. (Google earth and bigmouths blabbing on local facebook sledding sites)

You have very good service … Thank you

 

[jcjc1]

have a 2020 850 165 that i put an iBackshift cluth kit on and was extremely pleased with the smoothness and lower engagement which was one of the main reasons i bought the kit. pulled the primary off again and removed the spring cup to lower the engagement even further. a couple of friends who have 2015 Summits rode it and were so impressed with the clutching that they're installing iBackshift kits as we speak. however since i can't leave well enough alone despite the incredible power the 850 has, i'd like to gear down so i wanted to verify a few things before ordering the 19T top gear.
-will changing the top gear to a 19 tooth affect the engagement rpm? i don't see how it would but i don't don't know for sure.
-is a new chain required? doesn't seem necessary but still thought i'd ask.
-anybody run a 20 tooth as a compromise between stock (21/53) or is it not enough of a change?
-any change needed to the primary weights that generally has to be done when altering gearing?
thanks.