Enough is enough, ATVS are not sleds or bikes

[Arctic Thunder]

is there somewhere to pay to prevent grooming in the mountains? this activity should only be allowed around lakes and in the flat lands!

Really?

Have you ever been to McCall if they didn't groom once a week? You literally can't ride back into the riding areas without kidney damage. We need to have some grooming to get people back deeper in the mountains and spread out the fun.

Thunder

 

[snowmobiler]

in the old days how did we survive without groomers and trail rangers writing tickets.LOL.

 

[89sandman]

Really?

Have you ever been to McCall if they didn't groom once a week? You literally can't ride back into the riding areas without kidney damage. We need to have some grooming to get people back deeper in the mountains and spread out the fun.

Thunder

did you ever stop to think if the trails weren't groomed all the gtr's and mtr's would go somewhere else and leave the mountains for mountain riders? i would gladly ride whooped trails all season long not to have to deal with all the wannabe riders. in fact i'd pay to do it

 

[Mafesto]

did you ever stop to think if the trails weren't groomed all the gtr's and mtr's would go somewhere else and leave the mountains for mountain riders? i would gladly ride whooped trails all season long not to have to deal with all the wannabe riders. in fact i'd pay to do it

You sound like one of those guys who still believes that nobody from the Midwest even knows how to ride in the mountains.

 

[Arctic Thunder]

did you ever stop to think if the trails weren't groomed all the gtr's and mtr's would go somewhere else and leave the mountains for mountain riders? i would gladly ride whooped trails all season long not to have to deal with all the wannabe riders. in fact i'd pay to do it

Where do think they are going to go? I mean come on. Tell me where?

You can't, people have their toys and they want to ride them. If you want to beat your 15K sled down a whooped out trail for 15 miles each way to get to the untrack terrain go ahead. I would much rather cruise in on a groomer trail that I PAID to have groomed and enjoy the fresh stuff. (I am sure your one of those, "I never ride the trails" guys.) yea, when its not groomed every one of your off trail routes will be just like the trail Whooped OUT.

Back in the day, we road long track 133 (and even shorter) so 10 miles from the unloading area was a days work. Now we want to go 20 miles in to country we never would have thought of.

Ill gladly pay double to have a nice ride in and out.

IMO

Good fun

Thunder

 

[snowmobiler]

oregon,the last frontier.
without groomers the atvs would get stuck and the whiney xc skier stick panzys would stay home.LOL.

 

[DieselTwitch]

Ok I have seen the ATV running down the road in groups with other ATV's and with bikes. Kind of gay but hey to each his own. Now I have seen two in the ditch with tracks. One was a Razor with a guy in swear shirt running windshield wipers and fogged up on all other windows he could only see out of the front. I hate to tell him I could grab a 72 Etigre and run circles around him in the same ditch. At least the Black Hills trails system does state that all vehicles on their system has to a snowmobile not a ATV probably because of width and possible danger to oncoming traffic. It will not be long before you see a group of these Fred Astaire enclosed ATV's unloading at a trail head. I will bet you see a few at a poker run that most of us in the midwest are familiar with during the sledding this season.

Whats with the hate? You get violated by a fat guy on a quad?

 

[ottawaair]

The problem with atv's on the trails is the ruts they can create.
Especially if they get stuck.
Then they dig ruts and holes.
Ever hit some ruts at 60-70 mph. ??
It's not good.
And, here's where the problem lies.
When they open the trails to atvs, now everybody with a quad is gonna try to ride.
Then we'll have 2wd sport quads with paddle tires out tearing up the trails.
As said, in the east, it's mostly trails, many they private property.
They only give permission for those trails due to the fact that sleds don't do much damage to the ground below.
Without the landowners letting the trails go thru, we don't have trails. Then we either trespass, or we all go west to ride your guys' snow.

 

[Bicman]

Guilty as charged

Guilty as charged for the tracks and 'Yes" the tracks do come standard with a "Chit eatin grin" at no extra charge.

We pulled out of parking lot at Jackson Meadows rd (route 7) last Sunday on a camo yamaha Rhino w/ tracks around noon. Maybe you passed us like we were sitting still. It was a maiden voyage for the tracks, we got where we were headed and w/room for ice chests and gear. Great day.

Are sleds in our future? Maybe? For now throw a wave as you blow by and we will do the same

We will be up there a more often now. We bought the cabin on Henness Pass rd at Cold stream. If see the fresh tracks and the gates down feel free to stop and say hello.

 

[kt19]

You may bitch about groomed trails but they are our access to the mountains and back country. With out trail programs and grooming the mountain will be shut down and there will be no riding. This is an important thing to keep in mind and the reason we all buy our trail stickers.
In Wyoming and I'm sure in other areas "wheeled vehicles" are not allowed in the forest and on trails during the snowmobile season. But all track driven vehicles are. And I'm sure the guys on the side by sides can't spin all four of those tracks to destroy a trail like one sled can so I agree with the more the merrier of people with motors enjoying the snow and showing support against those that want us out.

 

[Arctic Thunder]

The problem with atv's on the trails is the ruts they can create.
Especially if they get stuck.
Then they dig ruts and holes.
Ever hit some ruts at 60-70 mph. ??
It's not good.
And, here's where the problem lies.
When they open the trails to atvs, now everybody with a quad is gonna try to ride.
Then we'll have 2wd sport quads with paddle tires out tearing up the trails.
As said, in the east, it's mostly trails, many they private property.
They only give permission for those trails due to the fact that sleds don't do much damage to the ground below.
Without the landowners letting the trails go thru, we don't have trails. Then we either trespass, or we all go west to ride your guys' snow.

In our area it's pretty clear no tires. It's tracks or stay off the groomed trails. I know for a fact the tracks don't do the damage to the groomed trails, in our area we have several tracked machines and we pass by them, share the trails, and enjoy a lunch now and again. (It's really nice to get them to pack the Barbeque in and lunch I know that.)

And even better is letting them break trail and clearing all the blow downs with the chain saws. Beats packing it on your sled that's for sure. PS they also get to do most of the work.

Thunder

 

[Jaynelson]

Quads or no quads
Tracks or no tracks
Groomed trails or whooped out things that have never seen a groomer
Road plowed by loggers and have to drive the truck 15 miles to unload
Share the road/trail with snocats for skiers
Cross country skiers with dogs

Done it and seen it all. Don't care....I'm going riding. Or I'm going to walk my dog in the mountains....or whatever. As long as people aren't imposing on me they can do whatever makes them happy.

That is part of the appeal of sledding and the mountains in general. You are responsible for your own actions....leave the politics and the rules of the rest of the world behind. The only problem I have is when one group feels they are more entitled to the privileges than another.

That said, we don't have very strict grooming programs around here.....I could see how chewing tire ruts in a freshly groomed trail IS imposing on others good times.

 

[Ol* Geezer]

What is worse than ATV ruts are the sledders that stop in the middle of the trail and then take off and leave a giant ant hill to freeze in the middle of the trail.

 

[Chief]

I'm 55 years old and have been sledding for 43 of those years.

Got two sleds on the trailer we're not using because my wife's recovery from cancer has left her too weak to ride a sled on her own.

I'm considering buying tracks and a UTV or a small snowcat so we can enjoy the winter as we used to but without the deep woods boondocking we like.

Anyone that wants to ban that kind of a rig from the groomed trails is, IMO, damaging winter motor sports.

Here in Utah I'll fight for the right of any tracked vehicle to use the trails but like many others want to keep the wheeled vehicles off the trails.

chief out

 

[CaDreamer]

That kind of thinking is just as bad as the cross country skiers who want the wilderness to themselves! My husband & I have a Commander with tracks that we bought due to health problems that prevent him from riding our sleds (we have 4). He would much rather be riding his sled but at least he can enjoy a little bit of the trails. Many areas are off limits. I just wish that people could be more open minded and open to sharing this great country.

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

Put me in the "No ATVS on Winter Trails" camp.

In Alaska to ride winter trails on state land or on trails maintained with state funds you have to have a $10(for 2 years) snow vehicle decal. ATVs with decals are perfectly legal but they do horrendous damage to trails.

Now, we don't have groomed trails nearly to extent of most other states but what trails we do have are important to people who live or have businesses off the grid. Those folks rely on smooth trails for freighting supplies and building materials. Wheeled vehicles tear up trails. Period. In those areas frequented by ATVs, grooming costs are double, even triple and wear & tear on grooming equipment increases.

Our grooming pool in AK is small to begin with and non trail related projects are eligible for that money which means many of the groomers pay out of pocket. ATVs incur far more costs to maintenance than they contribute in decal fees (which are ridiculously low to begin with)

I'm a recreational rider and I only use trails to access backcountry. I can live with ruts here and there, but there have been days where a day in the hills started with 20 miles of smooth trail only to become a torturous, shock wrecking ride back to the truck because 3 or 4 guys on ATVs thought whipping brodies all over the entire trail system was a killer idea. Did they break the law? Nope. Did I wish a slow death upon them? Yup.

I own two ATVs. I just don't ride them in the winter. There's a time and place for everything, and for an ATV, winter is not the time to be on dedicated snow trails.

 

[DieselTwitch]

Put me in the "No ATVS on Winter Trails" camp.

In Alaska to ride winter trails on state land or on trails maintained with state funds you have to have a $10(for 2 years) snow vehicle decal. ATVs with decals are perfectly legal but they do horrendous damage to trails.

Now, we don't have groomed trails nearly to extent of most other states but what trails we do have are important to people who live or have businesses off the grid. Those folks rely on smooth trails for freighting supplies and building materials. Wheeled vehicles tear up trails. Period. In those areas frequented by ATVs, grooming costs are double, even triple and wear & tear on grooming equipment increases.

Our grooming pool in AK is small to begin with and non trail related projects are eligible for that money which means many of the groomers pay out of pocket. ATVs incur far more costs to maintenance than they contribute in decal fees (which are ridiculously low to begin with)

I'm a recreational rider and I only use trails to access backcountry. I can live with ruts here and there, but there have been days where a day in the hills started with 20 miles of smooth trail only to become a torturous, shock wrecking ride back to the truck because 3 or 4 guys on ATVs thought whipping brodies all over the entire trail system was a killer idea. Did they break the law? Nope. Did I wish a slow death upon them? Yup.

I own two ATVs. I just don't ride them in the winter. There's a time and place for everything, and for an ATV, winter is not the time to be on dedicated snow trails.

I think you are a little confused. The OP was pissed about ATV's WITH TRACKS! Not ATV's with wheels. I think every one agrees that Wheeled Vehicles should be banned but converted atvs should not be! I ride a converted dirt bike to a snow bike and I can go places many sleds can't

 

[DieselTwitch]

That kind of thinking is just as bad as the cross country skiers who want the wilderness to themselves! My husband & I have a Commander with tracks that we bought due to health problems that prevent him from riding our sleds (we have 4). He would much rather be riding his sled but at least he can enjoy a little bit of the trails. Many areas are off limits. I just wish that people could be more open minded and open to sharing this great country.

totally agree! its closed minded people that will get the trails shut down for everyone!

 

[waxer]

I didn't think "we"Snowest Boondocking Tree Riding Extreme Mountain Climbing SledNecks used trails?

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

I think you are a little confused. The OP was pissed about ATV's WITH TRACKS! Not ATV's with wheels. I think every one agrees that Wheeled Vehicles should be banned but converted atvs should not be! I ride a converted dirt bike to a snow bike and I can go places many sleds can't

Thread veered into wheeled ATVs on trail well before I showed up. I was just adding to that aspect of the conversation.

As to tracked ATVs? The jury's still out on the good or bad of that.