I am planning on converting a 2 stroke snowmobile engine to run on diesel fuel for my senior design class at school. Has anybody heard of this being done before or have any information on what works and what doesn't? There is a team of students from the University of Buffalo that build a turbo diesel sled for a competition a couple years ago and were succesfull. Also, does anybody have any ideas of what they would like to see out of this project. I will probably be searching the forum for some parts shortly so any help on what you might have would be greatly appriciated. Look forward to hearing back from you guys!
Diesel Sled!?
- Thread starter karlenb
- Start date
It is for a class so I will get a grade, but it is mostly for fun and just to see what happens. Of coarse i am looking for performance gains, but maybe i'll get lucky and it will be a little more economical too. We will just have to wait and see and i'll keep everybody updated as i go.
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HillsRider
Member
It has been been done, just in a much larger scale. Detroit Diesel made a 2 stroke back in the day and they may still be made for all I know.
I am from eastern South Dakota.
the good ole detroit series 60 2 stoker deisel, They are discontiued i think it was back in the early 80's when they stopped, My diesel engines teacher used to work for detroit diesel as an insctructor for new products, i'll ask him when they quit those, A very smart man he would have a couple good ideas for your sled
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snowx22
Member
diesel sled
detriot used to make 2 stroke motors 53 series, 92 series, etc. (series 60 is the new detroit that is electronic valvetrain with no camshaft). Some of those 16V92's and 8V53's etc. used to come with a turbo and a supercharger both on them, because you needed the pressure to push the fuel air mix into the cylinder. 2 stroke Sleds use the piston going up and down to push the fuel air mix which is why there is oil mixed with the gas because the crankcase is open. The detroits weren't open like that. Those detroits worked great and made quick power, and reved fairly high too, for a diesel anyways. Good Luck with the project, look forward to hearing more about it.
detriot used to make 2 stroke motors 53 series, 92 series, etc. (series 60 is the new detroit that is electronic valvetrain with no camshaft). Some of those 16V92's and 8V53's etc. used to come with a turbo and a supercharger both on them, because you needed the pressure to push the fuel air mix into the cylinder. 2 stroke Sleds use the piston going up and down to push the fuel air mix which is why there is oil mixed with the gas because the crankcase is open. The detroits weren't open like that. Those detroits worked great and made quick power, and reved fairly high too, for a diesel anyways. Good Luck with the project, look forward to hearing more about it.
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06MXZXRenegade800
New member
detroit still makes the 2stroke diesels, still a very popular engine...
But thats a whole different ballgame from just converting a 2stroke sled engine.
The 2stroke diesels use piston port for the intake and still use valves/cam for the exhaust. to convert a sled engine to work like this would be a TON of work, almost enough that youd be better off building it from scratch. The crankcase would have to be self lubed, the transfer ports closed off and the intake ports raised or the piston skirt extended to keep the fuel/air out of the crankcase.
Then you still have to look into the issue of RPMs, the 2 stroke diesels still only run in the 2000rpm range (depending on application they are governed a little higher/lower)
I think the best way to go about building something like this would be to use a high pressure common rail injection, the piezoelectric injectors are capable of much higher duty cycle than a regular mechanical popoff injector. That is going to be the easiest route to go, just a single high pressure pump, no timing no bs to deal with there and the injectors are fired by the ECM, triggered/timed with a cam or crank position sensor
I think you might be better off using a 4st yami sled (or any ol 4st bike engine) and converting that to HPCR injection.
But thats a whole different ballgame from just converting a 2stroke sled engine.
The 2stroke diesels use piston port for the intake and still use valves/cam for the exhaust. to convert a sled engine to work like this would be a TON of work, almost enough that youd be better off building it from scratch. The crankcase would have to be self lubed, the transfer ports closed off and the intake ports raised or the piston skirt extended to keep the fuel/air out of the crankcase.
Then you still have to look into the issue of RPMs, the 2 stroke diesels still only run in the 2000rpm range (depending on application they are governed a little higher/lower)
I think the best way to go about building something like this would be to use a high pressure common rail injection, the piezoelectric injectors are capable of much higher duty cycle than a regular mechanical popoff injector. That is going to be the easiest route to go, just a single high pressure pump, no timing no bs to deal with there and the injectors are fired by the ECM, triggered/timed with a cam or crank position sensor
I think you might be better off using a 4st yami sled (or any ol 4st bike engine) and converting that to HPCR injection.
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sledhead699
Member
im instered to see this build. i would love to see a black cloud of diesel cimbing over the hills. SWEET
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Rprecision
Well-known member
Thats a project for sure..........
I would look into a stronger pull rope, a 20" wide track and a kick stand too....
But when your done dam these things pull
Look at the roster tail on this beast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T2xK7pI9zA
All kiding aside its a neat idea just dosent have a practical aplication
Good luck
I would look into a stronger pull rope, a 20" wide track and a kick stand too....
But when your done dam these things pull
Look at the roster tail on this beast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T2xK7pI9zA
All kiding aside its a neat idea just dosent have a practical aplication
Good luck
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06MXZXRenegade800
New member
^^^
Of course thats no 'balls to the walls' setup, thats not what it was designed or built for. its basically just a regular diesel engine hacked into a sled frame.
If you were to actually build something for the application it surely isnt going to be as light as a 2stroke or maybe even the current 4 strokes, but the power potential of diesel engines is astronomical. Just keep adding more fual and boost till it blows up!
Why do you think everyone is into hotrodding their diesel trucks now? I think its hilarious that with a few bolton parts i can send my 8000# truck down the 1/4mile faster than a 'lil' V8 gasser sports car. 1000hp/2000lbft (from a factory 160-215hp engine) is easily obtained from a 6bt cummins with a few simple bolton parts (injection pump, injectors,turbo) without even diggin into the engine and still drive it daily and get 20mpg+ on the highway with all the reliability you could ever want. keep adding fuel and air till it blows and if its built like a true diesel should be, itll take alot before it does blow up!
Heck, id bet that with a bit of tuning on that UB sled it would actually be worthwile to ride, but then again it might not be so green...
Of course thats no 'balls to the walls' setup, thats not what it was designed or built for. its basically just a regular diesel engine hacked into a sled frame.
If you were to actually build something for the application it surely isnt going to be as light as a 2stroke or maybe even the current 4 strokes, but the power potential of diesel engines is astronomical. Just keep adding more fual and boost till it blows up!
Why do you think everyone is into hotrodding their diesel trucks now? I think its hilarious that with a few bolton parts i can send my 8000# truck down the 1/4mile faster than a 'lil' V8 gasser sports car. 1000hp/2000lbft (from a factory 160-215hp engine) is easily obtained from a 6bt cummins with a few simple bolton parts (injection pump, injectors,turbo) without even diggin into the engine and still drive it daily and get 20mpg+ on the highway with all the reliability you could ever want. keep adding fuel and air till it blows and if its built like a true diesel should be, itll take alot before it does blow up!
Heck, id bet that with a bit of tuning on that UB sled it would actually be worthwile to ride, but then again it might not be so green...
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we still got an old GMC down to work that has an old detroit 2 stroke naturally asperaited v6 and Alli auto tranny that we use for a back up when our trailer shuttles are out of commission. ive only drove it a couple times but its a screemer, well noise wise any who. the thing feels like its gotta rap to 9 grand before it'll start movin.
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justpinit
Member
You should contact someone at John Deere about your project and see if they can help you out with some free parts
The Gator HPX comes with a small 3 cyl diesel mated to a sled-type CVT belt drive transmission. Some of the smaller utility tractors & commercial mowers also have turbo's, so you could simply go to a Deere dealership & order most of the parts you need over the counter.
A turbo diesel sled would be kinda cool......great for towing your buddies back to the truck!!
The Gator HPX comes with a small 3 cyl diesel mated to a sled-type CVT belt drive transmission. Some of the smaller utility tractors & commercial mowers also have turbo's, so you could simply go to a Deere dealership & order most of the parts you need over the counter.
A turbo diesel sled would be kinda cool......great for towing your buddies back to the truck!!
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06MXZXRenegade800
New member
They are definately screamers, but thats all they are, they do not rev very high
UB was also trying to reduce emissions and sound levels. They could have stayed very conservative with their design. I am looking for some economical gains, if any, but mostly performance gains.
L
LRD
Well-known member
With the compression needed for a diesel my very first questions would be the strength of the piston, rod and a pressed crank to handle it AND the needle and roller bearings in the crank and rod self destructing. Although I have built some race 2-strokes with near diesel compression (17 to 1) but I think diesel is around 20 to 1 or better.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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06MXZXRenegade800
New member
Direct injection diesels are rarely over 18:1 compression (more in the 16-17 range). Indirect injection diesels use higher compression, usually in the 20-22:1 range
IDI may be the way to go though, the fire is alot less violent than DI (since the fire starts in the pre-combustion chamber), but at the cost of efficiency/power yet the engine can be built alot lighter...
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