Backcountry United: An Open letter to the Snowmobile Industry.

kidwoo

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how you going to stop that 0.01%.and the 0.01% of selfish skiers that try to stab me with there pole for going by slow and quiet.LOL

Ban skiers from some areas obviously.

Same logic seems to be working against us. I think it's time.
 

Dogmeat

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Ban skiers from some areas obviously.

Same logic seems to be working against us. I think it's time.

I totally get that ... But ... That really runs against our general thought process.

Do we really care where they ski? Not really. "Ok Cool, they're snowmoboarding those hills there. Cool, we'll move on and go over here".

Maybe the next weekend .... "Oh hey, they're highmarking over there where we were last week, we'll go a couple ridgelines over and carve some turns over there".

Immagine how rad that'd be for *ALL* of us if there were no "wilderness" designations? :)
 

kidwoo

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Preach it brother.


I don't get it either. Like most of us, I live in an area surrounded by wilderness areas PLUS tons of additional non-motorized zones. I hiked on skins with a splitboard and skis for almost a decade before I owned a sled. Never once has that activity ever felt threatened to me. I just spoke with the owner of a ski company here and I asked him that same question: if his skiing opportunities ever felt threatened. He laughed at me and said 'fvck no'

There are honest people out there on skis.


It's kind of sad that lots of our friends and us take more and more of our trips to canada go sledding (and yes skiing from sleds). It's getting a little nuts here. And it's predicitated on lies, entitlement, and gross misrepresentations of reality.
 

Dogmeat

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Preach it brother.


I don't get it either. Like most of us, I live in an area surrounded by wilderness areas PLUS tons of additional non-motorized zones. I hiked on skins with a splitboard and skis for almost a decade before I owned a sled. Never once has that activity ever felt threatened to me. I just spoke with the owner of a ski company here and I asked him that same question: if his skiing opportunities ever felt threatened. He laughed at me and said 'fvck no'

There are honest people out there on skis.


It's kind of sad that lots of our friends and us take more and more of our trips to canada go sledding (and yes skiing from sleds). It's getting a little nuts here. And it's predicitated on lies, entitlement, and gross misrepresentations of reality.

Odd and provocative thought of the day -

There are 9ish billion people on Planet Earth. Probably 85% of which are concentrated to heavily urbanized areas of the planet .... yet ... Virtually every single woe we, OR ... "The Environmentalists" ... seem to talk about can ultimately be attributed to overpopulation.

Everyone seems to long for the days of yore .... When freedom appeared to be much more rampant? :)

Where are we now?

We have population densities quintupling in areas previously .... disregarded? .... Technology has made our snowmobiles thousands of times more capable than they were in the decades of "yore" ...

We all want our own version of "Freedom". Ultimately, that's what we're all after.

Where do we go from here?
 

Summit74

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This is a very complicated topic. We can argue a day long, but it comes down to leadership. Who do we as the snowmobile community (seen as the bad guy, black sheep most of the time) have as leadership? Easy to say who we don’t have! There are a few leading the way, like Stan Spencer out of Missoula, MT who started backcountry sled patriots. There are many other snowmobile organizations out there. Here’s something to think about. The snowmobile world just had one of its biggest events this past month! HayDays! I wonder how much talk and leadership happened at this event about Keeping Mountain riding access open??? I Can guarantee there was 99% talk about new sleds, beers drank, turbo, big bore, parts and accessories talk, Instagram videos posted, sponsorships made. We have a bunch of small organizations but no real voice pushing to the manufacturers and lawmakers. Until we have the manufactures and law makers supporting us or at least listening, our sport is not going to be around for our kids and grandkids to enjoy. How do we make this happen? I’m not sure, but bitching about loud cans and he says she says is not helping the cause. Rant over.
 

summ8rmk

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Here in Washington, we have WSSA (Washington State Snowmobile Association) i had assumed that all states had a similar setup? Is this not the case?
They are the ones that speak with state representatives at our state Capitol, manage grooming for the whole state, go to court to fight for our rights.

 

kidwoo

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Odd and provocative thought of the day -

There are 9ish billion people on Planet Earth. Probably 85% of which are concentrated to heavily urbanized areas of the planet .... yet ... Virtually every single woe we, OR ... "The Environmentalists" ... seem to talk about can ultimately be attributed to overpopulation.

Everyone seems to long for the days of yore .... When freedom appeared to be much more rampant? :)

Where are we now?

We have population densities quintupling in areas previously .... disregarded? .... Technology has made our snowmobiles thousands of times more capable than they were in the decades of "yore" ...

We all want our own version of "Freedom". Ultimately, that's what we're all after.

Where do we go from here?

A gate along the missisippi river?

An executive order repealing previous executive orders 11644 and 11989
 
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kidwoo

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This is a very complicated topic. We can argue a day long, but it comes down to leadership. Who do we as the snowmobile community (seen as the bad guy, black sheep most of the time) have as leadership? Easy to say who we don’t have! There are a few leading the way, like Stan Spencer out of Missoula, MT who started backcountry sled patriots. There are many other snowmobile organizations out there. Here’s something to think about. The snowmobile world just had one of its biggest events this past month! HayDays! I wonder how much talk and leadership happened at this event about Keeping Mountain riding access open??? I Can guarantee there was 99% talk about new sleds, beers drank, turbo, big bore, parts and accessories talk, Instagram videos posted, sponsorships made. We have a bunch of small organizations but no real voice pushing to the manufacturers and lawmakers. Until we have the manufactures and law makers supporting us or at least listening, our sport is not going to be around for our kids and grandkids to enjoy. How do we make this happen? I’m not sure, but bitching about loud cans and he says she says is not helping the cause. Rant over.

We had someone at Haydays. You see any blue logo stickers or t-shirts that said 'keep tahoe sledding'?


If you do in the future, say hi. Lots of good folks across the country who aren't bitter burnouts. Blue Ribbon Coalition just had a lot of turnover and seem to have some new life breathed into them.

You've got liz cheney on your side if you live in WY. You should look up some of what she's done recently.

Like I said, osv travel management will be visiting you all soon. We're the first. I'm tits deep in some deadlines right now but I'm always down to start growing the network. It needs to happen before everything we truly love in life for 6 months out of the year is gone. Ain't got no time for bitchin. We need to get moving, whether you agree with me (or backcountry united) on one specific detail or not.
 
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Summit74

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We had someone at Haydays. You see any blue logo stickers or t-shirts that said 'keep tahoe sledding'?


If you do in the future, say hi. Lots of good folks across the country who aren't bitter burnouts. Blue Ribbon Coalition just had a lot of turnover and seem to have some new life breathed into them.

You've got liz cheney on your side if you live in WY. You should look up some of what she's done recently.

Like I said, osv travel management will be visiting you all soon. We're the first. I'm tits deep in some deadlines right now but I'm always down to start growing the network. It needs to happen before everything we truly love in life for 6 months out of the year is gone. Ain't got no time for bitchin. We need to get moving, whether you agree with me (or backcountry united) on one specific detail or not.



Thanks for the info. Perspective...I’ve heard of keep Tahoe blue! Great to hear there was representatives at HayDays. I wasn’t there, but there was tons of social media from HaySays on getting people excited for the up coming season is my point on that. We seem to have groups in every state but do we have a larger voice that advocates for the masses that tells people to get involved with the local club and etc. our industry has come around pretty good on the Avalanche awareness, people being like Mike Duffy going around working in conjunction with Ski-doo and etc. maybe it can happen for access awareness.
 

Big10inch

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The industry does need to start participating. Their new bread and butter AVT/UTV lines will be the next to come under fire. These will be easy targets as they are loud, destructive polluting machines. Getting on board to defend land use rights for motorized vehicles was the only part of the original post that made sense.


With some more serious backing and the acknowledgment of how much money this recreation brings to communities we could probably get some decent political backing. That would go a long way. Political backing takes lots of money though. Manufacturers would be a great help here.


You don't hear much at a place like Haydays because most sledders would rather party than fight for their rights. The club I started had 3-4 serious members and 20-30 beer drinkers. Sad but true...
 

donbrown

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Next time we buy a sled ask, How much goes to OPENING PUBLIC LANDS so we can ride the 10 plus grand sled?
 
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Mafesto

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Get out and vote next month, and vote Republican.
When the Democrats are in power, we lose land.
Always have, always will.
Pretty easy way to make a difference.
 

kidwoo

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The industry does need to start participating. Their new bread and butter AVT/UTV lines will be the next to come under fire.

uh
Have you not heard of the travel management rule from 2005?

sleds are just the latest.
 

kidwoo

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Get out and vote next month, and vote Republican.
When the Democrats are in power, we lose land.
Always have, always will.
Pretty easy way to make a difference.

Yeah that democrat that created Boulder-Whitecloud Wilderness........oh wait

The wilderness bills and wilderness act revisions that happened in 1984 under that democrat Ronald Rea......oh wait


We've lost land under everyone. Politicians do whatever they think makes them look good, regardless of party. We're at an inherent disadvantage with the way the rules are written to favor future wilderness designation through roadless inventories, recommended wilderness, and the 'primitive/natural/non-motorized' nonsense. The laws need to change because they suck. I don't give a crap what party they come from if they're willing to have an honest discussion about these nutty laws.
 
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Bad Moon Arisin'

Sadly,I have no long term panacea solutions to offer that have not been suggested above in this needed discussion. The only thing that I can contribute is that loss of access to the "back-country" is not confined to ATVs & Sleds; I live in rural Montana (ranch country) and access for fishing & hunting is being being bought-out by affluent private interests thereby excluding the public. Even simple "horn hunting" for sheds has become a cut-throat activity in the public land. At this rate, the increasing sheer numbers of disrespectful, selfish individuals recreating in our public lands will destroy the joy for all. That begs the question, or "elephant in the room", is there simply TOO many outdoor recreationists competing for the available space on our public lands??
 

summ8rmk

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U can fit the worlds population in Rhode island. Each person would have 4sq ft to themselves or go to alaska and there would be over 2,200 sq ft for each person, that's a 4 bedroom house for everyone then the rest of the world would be empty so, there is plenty of land for everyone.

 

kidwoo

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Sadly,I have no long term panacea solutions to offer that have not been suggested above in this needed discussion. The only thing that I can contribute is that loss of access to the "back-country" is not confined to ATVs & Sleds; I live in rural Montana (ranch country) and access for fishing & hunting is being being bought-out by affluent private interests thereby excluding the public. Even simple "horn hunting" for sheds has become a cut-throat activity in the public land. At this rate, the increasing sheer numbers of disrespectful, selfish individuals recreating in our public lands will destroy the joy for all. That begs the question, or "elephant in the room", is there simply TOO many outdoor recreationists competing for the available space on our public lands??

heh

I got to witness the shed hunt going on between Augusta and Gibson reservoir this spring. That was nuts.

What was equally nuts is all the rules and regulations and signs and yada yada up in the hills in your neck of the woods. Everyone likes to point fingers at the west coast but it was idaho that birthed winter wildlands and bozeman where crazy lives. We're all fighting the same crap. And you're right, it's entitlement and selfishness, not any particular state or region.
 

Mafesto

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Yeah that democrat that created Boulder-Whitecloud Wilderness........oh wait

The wilderness bills and wilderness act revisions that happened in 1984 under that democrat Ronald Rea......oh wait


We've lost land under everyone. Politicians do whatever they think makes them look good, regardless of party. We're at an inherent disadvantage with the way the rules are written to favor future wilderness designation through roadless inventories, recommended wilderness, and the 'primitive/natural/non-motorized' nonsense. The laws need to change because they suck. I don't give a crap what party they come from if they're willing to have an honest discussion about these nutty laws.

If you actually believe that it makes no difference which party is in control, you are sadly mistaken.
Most certainly the politicians seldom give a crap about their constituents, but history proves that the Republicans are a far more reliable ally.
And oh by the way, who controlled the house in 1984?
Oh wait, it was the democrats.

It absolutely does make a difference who's in power. Quit trying to mislead.
 

Big10inch

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uh
Have you not heard of the travel management rule from 2005?

sleds are just the latest.





Depends on where you live. My area has an extensive network of "Jeep roads". The proliferation of ATVS and UTVS has become an issue more in recent years that ever before. There are tens of thousands of those buzz bombs ripping around the forest here, all summer long. It is huge business too, rentals, repairs etc.


In 2005 there were almost none and I was fighting the sled issue.
 
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