ATF in Chaincase

[zxsummitrider01]

So i have heard of a lot of guys running ATF in their chaincases. I like the theory behind it and know several guys who swear by it and have always run it in their older sleds.


Ive been playing with gearing a lot lately so i decided to give the ATF a shot since i knew i was going to have the chane case back apart. Long story short, at the end of the day the atf looks way cleaner than the 75 90 synthetic i have been running and their is far less metal on the magnet.

Problem: the xp/xm chain case runs the breather, vent tube, acoss from the top gear and the ATF is thin enough that by the end of a day of riding i had lost about 1/3 of it out of the vent tube.

Any of you ATF guys have this problem? Any solutions? What is the function of the vent tube, chaincases never used to run them??? Is it to avoid condensation?


Any inout would be appreciated thanks

 

[BHPete]

You really need to study the lubricating properties of ATF vs. gear lube. Two different animals! If you are under warranty and have used ATF, I would guess that you have screwed the pooch already?
Idk what synthetic you have used, but I have had good luck with Amsoil. I am currently running Amsoil Severe Gear 75w-140 in my chain case in my XP! You can go to Amsoils web sight and get the specifics on temp range, pour point, and such.

 

[JedInUtah]

The 5300 miles on my chaincase with ATF and hard mountain riding would say that it lubricates just fine.

 

[BHPete]

I am happy for you then! Maybe it's just BRP getting us to buy high dollar gear lube? How often do you change it?

 

[zxsummitrider01]

The 5300 miles on my chaincase with ATF and hard mountain riding would say that it lubricates just fine.

i agree i think it is lubricating awesome, looked way cleaner than the gear oil, i guess the ? is has anyone else had problem loosing it out the vent tube bc it is so thin compaired to sAy 75 90 syn

 

[JedInUtah]

I am happy for you then! Maybe it's just BRP getting us to buy high dollar gear lube? How often do you change it?

Beginning of every season as part of the get ready tune up.

 

[BHPete]

Beginning of every season as part of the get ready tune up.

That is pretty much standard procedure for all of us. What I would be interested in seeing in your application as you seem to have a lot of miles using ATF? If you would try Amsoil 75w-140 Severe Gear lube. Pour point is -46. Flash point is 210. So if this eliminates the venting issue for the OP, there should be no loss of performance?

 

[Reeb]

Can't help you on the venting issue. No idea why BRP put one in there.

I've run ATF since I raced, that was the mid to late 90's. Normal servicing every year and things are fine. What is more important is the chain deflection and keeping up on noticing when a chain should be replaced.

BRP, like all others, will try to scare you into thinking that unless you use "their" brand, you're sled will turn into a lemon. It's just a business trying to make more money off of you.

 

[JedInUtah]

Zxsummitrider- just a thought, are you rolling your sled over to get it unstuck? With just the 8 oz of ATF in the bottom of the chaincase you should not be seeing it come out the breather.

 

[BHPete]

I would suspect that it is foaming up as ATF is not formulated for this application unlike gear lube which is formulated for these conditions!
The way I see it, this can go a couple different ways? The first is, if it isn't broke don't fix it? But if you consider why ATF is used in the first place, generally because it will flow at colder temps. This was fine back in the 80s and 90s because that is what was available to do the job. My point is lubricants, and more specifically synthetic lubricants, have become so much better in the last 10 or 15 years that it may be time to apply some new thinking?

 

[JedInUtah]

My reason for using ATF has nothing to do with pour points or other scientific thing, and everything to do with its CHEAP and it works.

Never seen any evidence of it foaming.

But I also use 2 stroke mineral oil from Wal-Mart and not synthetics in my motor.

 

[BHPete]

My reason for using ATF has nothing to do with pour points or other scientific thing, and everything to do with its CHEAP and it works.

Never seen any evidence of it foaming.

But I also use 2 stroke mineral oil from Wal-Mart and not synthetics in my motor.

I guess if cheap is your deal then there is nothing wrong with that? But my question is, considering that you are posting in an XM thread, I would assume that you are riding a new enough machine to be valued to at least $10,000? What would be the point of going cheap now? You should be on a Rev?

As to the OP, it could be foaming, overfill, or the oil bottle leaking? He really hasn't commented much in his post!

 

[summit800]

I've never use synthetic oils in any of my sleds and I've owned alot of sled, and never had any issues with any of them, because of oil issues, lets see... 1996 summit 670 9,000 miles when sold and still going today ,same 8000 rpm as they run now, same bearings as they run now , but now the dealers tell you that you need synthetic, I dont think so!!

 

[JedInUtah]

I guess if cheap is your deal then there is nothing wrong with that? But my question is, considering that you are posting in an XM thread, I would assume that you are riding a new enough machine to be valued to at least $10,000? What would be the point of going cheap now? You should be on a Rev?

As to the OP, it could be foaming, overfill, or the oil bottle leaking? He really hasn't commented much in his post!

If you want the truth, I am on a REV. However the year or value of my sled wouldn't change what I run in it. When I upgrade to a new one it will be the same. I have torn in to my engine several times and very happy with the results.

The more money I save is more fuel in the tank.

That is all, I was just making a suggestion based on experience of using ATF which the OP asked for.

 

[zxsummitrider01]

Holy crap i didnt know i was going to stir the pot with this one. As for not commenting back on my own post i had to go back to work for the week by the time anyone responded. Anyway, it was filled until it started coming out the fill plug hole so it had the proper ammount of fluid in it at the start if the day. The sled did come over the top one time that day to get unstuck, have been doing this since the rev days and never had a problem.
My guess would b that it is thin enough that at sever angles it is able to come out the vent tube.
Wether you want to argue atf or gear oil is great that's why i started this thread, as for amzoil, ive had a lot of motors too and amzoil is right up there with penzoil in an automotive apllication to me, hate it. Why the love fest? just you prefered brand and brand loyal?

 

[BHPete]

I could care less what anybody uses. My point is to educate yourselves as to why anyone uses what they use, then hopefully be able to step back and look at the big picture? Price, performance, downtime etc.
if you are trying to compare Penzoil to Amsoil, Royal Purple, or Mobil1, then that may be part of your problem?
The most trusted source for oil related information would be bobstheoilguy.com
Should be some interesting reading for you?

 

[JedInUtah]

BHpete- that is part of my point though.....bobistheoilguy does have some great info. Points out all kinds of scientific things and comparisons. But according to him using a tcw-3 oil "supertech" will destroy my engine and my raves will fall out~a little sarcasm.

But my real world testing and many others says otherwise. I know guys that run it in their new pros and xms without issue.

New engines are different, injectors, void warranty, blah, blah, I've heard it all. Truth is there is so much fear mongering out there guys are to scared to even try and put it in there engine. They talk about how cheap and how bad it is with no real proof or experience.

Is amsoil and klotz and manufacturer oils great oils?? You bet! Does that mean you cannot get the same result or protection for what a 2 stroke engine needs from a $12/gallon oil. Most say no, I have real world experience that says otherwise.

When I lose a motor due to an oil issue, I'll be the first to pipe up and say so.

I've run klotz, brp, blue marble, and amsoil over the years. My rave valves come out each check cleaner than some of those.

Rant over. Don't believe everything you read on the internet vs trying it. Sometimes marketing is just marketing

 

[BHPete]

I agree! There is more than one way to skin a cat? There is a lot of useful info on the web, but one has to wade through it, think about it, and decide what is best for any given situation?
I have used Amsoil for the last 15 years with great success and added economy in most cases. I have used ATF myself in the past, and it did not say NOT to do it. I am just trying to point out other options. I do notice that I hardly have any smoke using Amsoil vs. the OE recommended oils.

 

[Phizzer]

BHpete- that is part of my point though.....bobistheoilguy does have some great info. Points out all kinds of scientific things and comparisons. But according to him using a tcw-3 oil "supertech" will destroy my engine and my raves will fall out~a little sarcasm.

But my real world testing and many others says otherwise. I know guys that run it in their new pros and xms without issue.

New engines are different, injectors, void warranty, blah, blah, I've heard it all. Truth is there is so much fear mongering out there guys are to scared to even try and put it in there engine. They talk about how cheap and how bad it is with no real proof or experience.

Is amsoil and klotz and manufacturer oils great oils?? You bet! Does that mean you cannot get the same result or protection for what a 2 stroke engine needs from a $12/gallon oil. Most say no, I have real world experience that says otherwise.

When I lose a motor due to an oil issue, I'll be the first to pipe up and say so.

I've run klotz, brp, blue marble, and amsoil over the years. My rave valves come out each check cleaner than some of those.

Rant over. Don't believe everything you read on the internet vs trying it. Sometimes marketing is just marketing

So I have to ask...if your turbo stated it required 110 octance fuel to run properly, but you could get away with running on cheaper fuel with less octane would you??

Not trying to be a smart ***, and to some degree I agree with you. If it works, why change it? But at the same time, these aren't 89' 440's and Formula's....They are a High Output Horsepower machine turning and making an incredible amount of power. Has the technology behind the sled changed?? Absoultely. So should the additives or prevenative maintence products improve as well? You bet.

If ATF works for you, that's great. But to say it's a "waste" for people who do care about the THEORY and research that has gone into a product, that will run cooler, not bubble, or provide that addequate amount of lubrication is being ignorant.

I could paint my car with a lead based automotive paint that has been known to cause cancer, or I can paint it with a water based acrylic enamel that has zero effects on health. They both work just fine, but obviously some improvements in technology have made the product better, even though you get the same result.

I for one know, that I would NEVER put a drop of 12$ oil into any of my machines that I acutally cared for. But then again, this is coming from the guy who likes prevenative maintence. I don't have any proof that it would harm my engine, but I can't let my $12,000 baby eat a cheap piece of CHIT for breakfast.

 

[JedInUtah]

I am not advocating to just use cheap stuff......but the same as you, non ignorance. If a sled needs higher octane to run properly, then yes you use what's needed. But if there was an alternative to race fuel that provided the same octane requirements without any adverse effects to the motor, and it may be quite a bit cheaper, isn't it worth at least looking into??

Technology is great and advancements needed, agrred all the way. With the money I have invested in my sled, klim gear, avi bag, tow equipment, etc, etc. Sledding is not a cheap sport and know you can't cut corners everywhere.

What I can say though and you can't deny is that in some regards there is fear mongering in our sport as there are with others. Ex. How many people on here are still under the impression that their warranty will be void if they don't use the manufacturers oil or case lube??

I'm just saying find what works and stick too it. If a viable option presents itself to try and works and will save you money, why not. I didn't even mean to bring oil into this conversation because it's about ATF. It was just supporting evidence to the argument that ATF provides adequate protection and is cheaper and easier to get.

I would not expect anyone to take my word for it or run $12 CHIT in there new sled. But I have taken the leap of faith, tried it, proven it, against that same pit I my stomach created by all those that said my engine would instantly have issues. More or less I wanted to see for myself and prove whether it worked or not. My experience would say I wouldn't hesitate to run it in any current machine. I'm running higher compression, rkt engine, and abuse my sled in the Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming mountains. I am all about preventative maintenance as well.

How else do you get a rev running top shape to 5300 miles??