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A Serious Threat & a Seriously Misconstruing Organization!

P

PowderGirl

Well-known member
"The only realistic long term strategy is to work towards a total ban on Thrillcraft."

Thrillcraft is defined by this organization as snowmobiles, dirt bikes, dune buggies, ATVs, jet skis, and anything that travels off road.

I dont know if you all have seen this website or heard of this organization but this is a SERIOUS threat to us and is seriously misconstruing who motorized users are and our impact on public lands!

STOP THRILLCRAFT is the name of the website and this organization wants to see all "thrill craft" parked or restricted to public, paved highways ONLY." This is the ulitimate example of an EXTREMIST organization who is implying that motorized users are a disrepectful, rebelious, "estranged from the natural world" group who purposfully destroys plant life, cause excess erosion, puts unnessary dust into our air that blocks invaluable suns rays, causes 22% of our atmospheres polultion, causes noise that burst the ear drums of desert animals, and completely defaces our landscape all over our nation.

Watch the video on the home page and see for yourself how this organization depicts us. Much of the "defacing landscape" footage shows motorcycles and ATV's riding on huge plantless sand dunes or what looks like to be ORV parks that are very small contained areas compared to all the public lands out there that are off limits to us. They potray us like we have access to ALL pulblic lands and/or that 67% of us ride closed trails and off trails where only designated trail access is allowed! There are so many statements by this organization that may be true when applied to a specific situation and/or a small area but because this organization is mearly generalizing it's statements - it allows any one who is not familiar with how OHV users actually use our lands and what they do have access to, to come up with a completely distorted view!


http://www.stopthrillcraft.org/


Here are many statements off their website:


"Thrillcraft users are turning our national pride in a national tragedy."

"Thrillcraft threaten our national heritage. It is time to take back our lands"

"Millions of arcres are under asualt.... by Thrillcraft abuse."

"Many owners of thrillcraft enjoy challenging themselves by “attacking” the land or water, seeking out steep slopes or rough pathways through the woods."

"Reckless and rude behavior is common among thrillcraft users. "

"A major problem endemic with thrillcraft culture is the notion that one straddles these machines to go “where no one else has gone.” As a consequence, there is a strong tendency to ignore trail and road closures, and violate any limitations placed upon use of the machines."

"Another study conducted in Colorado on behalf of Colorado Coalition for Responsible ORV Riding found that despite the fact that most thrillcraft enthusiasts understood that they should not stray from designated trails, more than two-thirds admitted they go off-trail occasionally, and 15-20% admitted they regularly rode off legal routes."

"A recent survey by the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks found that 90% of Montana trail users were on foot, and only 2% used thrillcraft."

"Snowmobiles dump approximately 30% of their fuel out the tailpipe into the snow, including highly persistent polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons which are then frozen into the snowpack. When the snow melts in the spring, a concentrated surge of pollutants contaminates ground water and surface water that can harm aquatic insects, amphibians and fish, not to mention human water supplies."

"According to the California Air Resources Board, a typical two-stroke snowmobile engine produces as much harmful pollution in seven hours as a passenger car driven for 100,000 miles! The newer four-stroke engines are not much better. Pollutants for all snowmobiles emitted include carbon monoxide, benzene, and formaldehyde.

"According to EPA, thrillcraft produces13% of the hydrocarbon emissions from all mobile sources annually, including approximately 5 million tons of carbon monoxide, nearly 1 million tons of hydrocarbons, 340,000 tons of nitrogen oxides, and 8 thousand tons of particulates."

"Noise from thrillcraft has been found to cause erratic behavior, bleeding from the ears, and hearing loss in kangaroo rats."
 
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These wackos are polluting the air I breathe with their stench and their farts. I think they should all be confined to an indoor room with a highly sophisticated ventilation/filtration system so that their foulness may not offend my delicate nasal passages any longer.
 
What I want to know is how accurate are some of his statements like

- "Snowmobiles dump approximately 30% of their fuel out the tailpipe into the snow"
- "a typical two-stroke snowmobile engine produces as much harmful pollution in seven hours as a passenger car driven for 100,000 miles"
- along with his statement in the video that Thrillcraft produce 22% of all emmisions by vehicle.

I can see where he can get away with stating "Noise from thrillcraft has been found to cause erratic behavior, bleeding from the ears, and hearing loss in kangaroo rats" I'm certain that's true if you catch the little guy and hold his ear up to the tail pipe while the bike is braapped. I think my ear drum would burst! See how misconstrueing that is?

But does 30% of our fuel really leak into the snow? I only see a little black left on the snow where my exhaust is but I cannot see how that ammounts to 30% of my fuel in burnt form. Maybe he used data from some old Elan from the 70's. The other thing - what is the actual concentration per area of our fuel that is "leaked" into the snow? Where's the evidense that is is so concentrated that it is harming plants and animals?

Can this guy be held accountable for his misleading statements? Is there a lawyer on here who might know?

Again, I highly encourage you all to spend some time on his website and watch that video - i'm sure common sense tells many people (even some environmentalists) that this guy is way out in left field and blowing smoke up our rears but there are a lot of "sheep" out there, many of which dwell in highly concentrated human populations and dont know what the reality is or how most of us motorized users recreate on our open public lands. Those masses will likely believe that guy.
 
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i remeber somebody broug this up about a year ago, i wrote them a long email just quoting things from there site and pointing out some pretty simple errors in there ways.

they never responded.
 
Thanks for the heads up, Sarah...i think?!

Oh boy are those guys riding the train of ignorance bound for the dead end tunnel of insanity. Responding to their ignorance will only lead to their further demonization of our lifestyle, so lets just squash their intentions outright, shall we.
 
Very old 2 strokes dumped maybe 20% of their gas unburnt, you might hit 30% if your pipe wasn't tuned and you where running really fat. The newer SDI or Full DI motors are as clean as a 4 stroke street bike. In general, all things being equal, a 4 stroke produces a 1/10th the hydrocarbons, a 2 stroke does. But, it's easy to take a 1995 2 stroke, and a brand new honda civic, and make a case that cars are cleaner. But, take a new 4 stroke, or 2 stroke DI motor, and compare it to a SUV, and your probably about equal

We just went through the 2010 small engine emissions reduction laws. The next is 2012. That's the year almost every snowmobile with be fully Direct Injected or a 4 stroke. There are some "race" and "special" snowmobiles that may still be sold with older technology. But, most snowmobiles will have to be clean. Their also talking about a 2014 reduction.

This is a very important point, snowmobiles did pollute, if you care to call it pollution. But, we now have requirements and laws. That's how you fix these things, you identify the problem, you work with the manufactures, and you create statues, rules, and regulations to fix it. Not just ban snowmobiles. There are also rules about noise. It's being fixed, no reason to ban anything.

Dumping Hydrocarbons into the environment, although it sounds bad, isn't bad for the environment, like most want you to believe. There's this biological process called "bio-remediation". It means, little critters, bacteria, algea, ect... eat hydrocarbons (gas) for lunch. Carbon Monoxide, sulfurs, nitrites, those are real pollutants. Have you ever noticed theres no such thing as gasoline pilling up in the ditches. It's because of bio-remediation. Gas is high energy food.

Emissions of vehicles is a BS statement. What emissions? Water vapor? Carbon Monoxide? Carbon Dioxide? Particles? Sulfur? Nitrites? Hydrocarbons? To say snowmobiles produce 22% of the emissions, is to say we burn 22% of the fuel. Or, it's to just make up your own definition of what is a emission. Snowmobiles in Yellowstone are cleaner than allmost all motorcycles, RVs, Buses, trucks, and a lot of cars. Mountain Snowmobiles dump a lot of hydrocarbons. But, are hydrocarbons bad? Next they'll be using the old, snowmobiles run a greater percentage of time at high wattage output, or something stupid like that. It's all BS, and they know it. Where's this group based out of? Reno probably. Sounds very familiar.

The world is full of people that need a position, so that they may compensate for their pathetic lives.
 
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Thank you for you input Wade!

Contact info says based out of Cali:

George Wuerthner
Foundation for Deep Ecology
Building 1062, Fort Cronkhite
Sausalito, California 94965
Phone: (415) 229-9339

So if this guy/organization is putting out bogus information - can our supporting agency sue him/them? In other words, hold them accountable for their statements and perhaps decimation of a group?
 
Wow...

I was going to throw down a rant on that, but I just blew a gasket..


I gotta go hang out with the gang, be a rebel.


First off he is in it only for the money. Good easy website, and he gets the bleeding hearts to throw him cash.

Keep are eyes on this dude,
 
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Thank you for you input Wade!

Contact info says based out of Cali:

George Wuerthner
Foundation for Deep Ecology
Building 1062, Fort Cronkhite
Sausalito, California 94965
Phone: (415) 229-9339

So if this guy/organization is putting out bogus information - can our supporting agency sue him/them? In other words, hold them accountable for their statements and perhaps decimation of a group?


Hahaha, That's what happens when you buy NorthFace and Esprit clothing. That dude Douglas Tompkins, just bought a huge chunk of Patagonia, the area in Chile, and now his little green group is going after motorized recreation. Ah, to be a billionaire.
 
Thank you for you input Wade!

Contact info says based out of Cali:

George Wuerthner
Foundation for Deep Ecology
Building 1062, Fort Cronkhite
Sausalito, California 94965
Phone: (415) 229-9339

So if this guy/organization is putting out bogus information - can our supporting agency sue him/them? In other words, hold them accountable for their statements and perhaps decimation of a group?

You can sue anyone for just about anything if you have the money. They use that on us all the time.
 
Thank you for you input Wade!

Contact info says based out of Cali:

George Wuerthner
Foundation for Deep Ecology
Building 1062, Fort Cronkhite
Sausalito, California 94965
Phone: (415) 229-9339

So if this guy/organization is putting out bogus information - can our supporting agency sue him/them? In other words, hold them accountable for their statements and perhaps decimation of a group?
That name sounds really familiar for some reason...
 
I did a "whois" search for that URL and this is what I got back.

Registrant:
Center for Biological Diversity

PO Box 710
Tucson, Arizona 85702
United States

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: STOPTHRILLCRAFT.ORG
Created on: 07-Nov-07
Expires on: 07-Nov-11
Last Updated on: 07-Nov-09

Administrative Contact:
Department, IT center@biologicaldiversity.org
Center for Biological Diversity
PO Box 710
Tucson, Arizona 85702
United States

Note the host org is "biological diversity Not much "diversity" going on there.

http://biologicaldiversity.org/
 
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