Opinions are great, FYI it is Tom and Jay running our 927 in the 1000 improved class and doing a lot of winning and Jay even won the points championship in that class, I stated that they did not produce as many top finishes in the mod classes with your 200 hp turbos, same quality drivers in each class.
Reflash is an option for some but it is easy to jack up timing points and build a little more power on anything. No way to offset fuel to each cylinder to help cure the design properties with the 850 platform engine which it needs. We have replaced cylinders for turbo customers and it always the same cylinder with the problem.
Warranty for myself and our customer base is very important as when ECU is flashed it leaves a marker which equates to no more warranty, Race vehicles are differant application as they have no warranty to begin with.
Give a call some evening and I would be glad to discuss what I have seen with the current turbos on the 850's from the past two seasons.
Dave Trygstad
1) You aren't correct about the ECU reflash leaving a "marker". Obviously if you don't reflash to stock, its easy to tell its got a tune on it, much in the same way if you leave your big bored motor in the sled its pretty obvious its not stock
. However, if flashed back to stock there is no "marker". I'm guessing you aren't overly familiar with how the flash process works (we build the code in house...)
2) Warranty with any aftermarket product is out the window. So I'm not sure what you are discussing here. Yes, one could put something back to stock if they want and try to get warranty work...but pulling off a big bore kit off, pulling a box off, seems a pile of work compared to plugging a cable in and pressing a button.
3) Comparing your results in one class to results in another class is apples to oranges. Silly to even do so. Not all riders ride the same classes, and its an entirely different set of rules. Like comparing Touring to Grand Touring cars...or 250F (125cc) to 450F (250cc) Not to mention most people don't buy product to go RMSHA racing, they go to ride in the mountains in deep snow...
4) Sorry on the name screw up - edited for clarity!
5) Please explain how your big bore setups or the 850 requires additional fuel management beyond the capability of the ECU?! You are suggesting Ski-Doo missed something in their design of the control unit, which is a very big claim, especially considering how evolved that control unit is. The amount of air entering the manifold will be consistent across the throttle bodies, hence, the amount of air entering each cylinder will be consistent. This means the amount of fuel per cylinder is also....consistent! On the exhaust side we have a single pipe, so EGTs will be representative of an average of both cylinders. Point is, how can you tell one side is lean, or one side is rich due to air intake inconsistency as you are suggesting? There simply isn't data to suggest this (inconsistent volume of *air* cyl/cyl)
What we've seen is injectors fail (become inconsistent), this was a common problem with the 2018s, which could in theory be "fixed" with a power commander. That said, its a failure of an injector being fixed with a band-aid, not an actual fix (actual fix = new injector or fix whatever is causing the injector to be inconsistent). This was common on mod sleds AND stock sleds. (again, mostly a 2018 problem, but 2017s had it as well). Oh, and when an injector goes, it will throw a code part of the time. Again, stockers have this exact same problem - it has nothing to do with a mod.
Finally you suggesting its easy for us to "jack up timing points" is confusing. Its no harder than building a N/A map in general, we are just doing it around a big bore design using more advanced electronics. (the stock ECU is incredibly powerful)
Put another way, the stock ECU has more capability than any aftermarket tuner box. The exception to this being a complete aftermarket ECU, which in theory could be far more advanced than anything...but would be an incredible amount of work to program.
EDIT: I just want to be *really* clear there is nothing wrong with the 927! My tone is a bit more negative than I intend, maybe because I see the reflash being an awesome way to control fuel for any motor mod. Anyone who wants a big bore, give the 927 a hard look!
. Just like his 872 some people thought that it didn't work . However they thought they were a bad ass tuner. If that was the case they would be selling bad ass motors but guess what they're not what's that tell you. If you do exactly what he tells you to do it will out perform any stock 850 including a properly set up one. If you're not quite the clutching professional that you thought you were mabe you should call a true clutching professional like I- backshift or roosterbuilt.
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