2021 Riot 8000 Hybrid Sled

[thedon608]

I just traded my 2020 Alpha One Hardcore for a 2021 Riot 8000 with a twin rail/146 and it came with both a 2" and 1.6" track. My plan for this was to switch back and forth between mountain and trail riding since I moved back to the Midwest after several years of riding in the PNW. I was looking at some part numbers and differences between the alpha drive, and the riot 8000, it looks like the riot has a different chain case than that of the alpha, and I'm wondering if that will make it so I cannot fit an alpha setup in the tunnel.

Has anybody done something similar, or have any more information on what the challenges will be in swapping a 165/3.0 3.5 pitch will be into the riot?

I will also be swapping the front end to the mountain front end(shocks and everything) between rides. I want to go with a TKI belt drive on this, but the numbers are different between the riot/riot X, and would like to know the gearing change for a 146x1.6 and a 165x3.0.

Let me know your thoughts/concerns.

Thanks,

Don.

 

[boondocker97]

The Riot X with the alpha rail has the dropped driveshaft in the chassis with the longer chain case like the full mountain sleds do. The twin rail Riot does not. That is why the different belt drive kits for them. And the kits and chain cases are different enough that you can't just put a TKI kit on right now and then swap it over if you drop the driveshaft later. Been there done that. People have fit 3" tracks with the old 8T 3.0 pitch drivers in the non-dropped chassis before, but it's real tight. The 7T 3.5 pitch Alpha driver is mathematically only 0.16" bigger diameter or 0.080" additional loss of clearance. So not much. Might still fit, but will probably rub with any amount of ice buildup.

If it were me doing this I would add the drop and roll kit when you do the belt drive as it will give you the best deep snow performance. Drawbacks are cutting into a new sled, might have to trim the rail tips or caps on the twin rail skid, and the driveshaft will hang lower on the trail to hit big trail moguls with. If your sled has a steel driveshaft it should be splined full length on the drive end like the Alpha drive shaft so you should be able to use the same bottom TKI sprocket and change top sprockets to adjust gearing. Also if you plan to be swapping tracks regularly then spring for the new style aluminum tube oil tank TKI has. Much simpler to move out of the way when you want to access the belt.

Does your Riot have the taller SX style spindles on it? If so you might just want to buy a set of 36" lower a-arms and run TKI upper arms that are made to use those. They aren't on their website yet, but can call them on availability. Supposed to be more consistent handling in a broader range of snow conditions than raising an Alpha with other company's kits.

 

[thedon608]

The Riot X with the alpha rail has the dropped driveshaft in the chassis with the longer chain case like the full mountain sleds do. The twin rail Riot does not. That is why the different belt drive kits for them. And the kits and chain cases are different enough that you can't just put a TKI kit on right now and then swap it over if you drop the driveshaft later. Been there done that. People have fit 3" tracks with the old 8T 3.0 pitch drivers in the non-dropped chassis before, but it's real tight. The 7T 3.5 pitch Alpha driver is mathematically only 0.16" bigger diameter or 0.080" additional loss of clearance. So not much. Might still fit, but will probably rub with any amount of ice buildup.

If it were me doing this I would add the drop and roll kit when you do the belt drive as it will give you the best deep snow performance. Drawbacks are cutting into a new sled, might have to trim the rail tips or caps on the twin rail skid, and the driveshaft will hang lower on the trail to hit big trail moguls with. If your sled has a steel driveshaft it should be splined full length on the drive end like the Alpha drive shaft so you should be able to use the same bottom TKI sprocket and change top sprockets to adjust gearing. Also if you plan to be swapping tracks regularly then spring for the new style aluminum tube oil tank TKI has. Much simpler to move out of the way when you want to access the belt.

Does your Riot have the taller SX style spindles on it? If so you might just want to buy a set of 36" lower a-arms and run TKI upper arms that are made to use those. They aren't on their website yet, but can call them on availability. Supposed to be more consistent handling in a broader range of snow conditions than raising an Alpha with other company's kits.

Extremely helpful information, I appreciate it. I think I am going to go with the TKI for the alpha and do the drop and roll on the sled to gain the extra clearance. I have the elevate kit that I had put on my alpha, and am planning on doing a full font end swap any time I go out west(probably once or twice a year)

Do you have any guidance on gearing? I'm assuming if I want to go with a 165x3.0, I will likely be using a different gearing than that of a 146x1.6. TKI shows options for 24-28T cogs.

 

[boondocker97]

When I was 260lb running a 162 X 2.6 Powerclaw on my big bore proclimb I ran a 26T top sprocket. After I went to a 3" powerclaw at 270-280lb it would still pull the 26T, but the clutching would behave more consistently with a 25T. I would run a 25T with the 165 which is really close to stock Alpha gearing. Probably a 28T with the 146 at low elevation.

 

[sno*jet]

if youre really gonna hack in and do the longer case with tki setup, tki should give you the correct sprockets, i believe its still a 2.63:1 ratio for a stock 3" mountaincat. then get the sprocket(s) that match a new riot X ratio as they have a dropped case, maybe go a hair higher since you'll run a smaller track than the 2.6 on the current X.
If it was me i would just convert it to a '22 riot X and ride it both places. but maybe you need to have the most extreme setup when you come west...where ya gonna ride it?

 

[thedon608]

I have been considering going away from the alpha idea, and instead doing a twin rail with a 7 tooth driver and 3" power claw since I have read that that combo is able to fit within the non-drop and rolled chain cases. Do you by chance know how much of an upgrade the drop and roll chain case, and rails would make, I am finding some mixed reviews online for whether it is actually worth it.

I'm coming off of a 2020 Alpha Hardcore, and would like to have the ability to have both a trail and a mountain sled without actually forking up another 12-18k. I don't think the 146x2.6 track would be enough for my style of riding, but I could easily go to 154x3.0 since the tunnel on the riot is the same as a 154 alpha. I have been riding out of DuBois, Cooke City, and on the grand mesa in Colorado in the past years. I will likely be riding the Upper Peninsula of Michigan as well.

 

[boondocker97]

Riding style might come into play on how much benefit someone thinks the dropped driveshaft provides. If you like the front end to be playful at the cost of a few more stucks you'll probably be fine without the dropped driveshaft. All out deep snow going the drop is going to be the way to go. My proclimb without the drop, a 162 X 2.6 track, and stock geometry skid pulled the skis on command and was a super fun sled riding around on the tail all the time in deep or setup snow. Did the drop, 3" track, and kmod skid and the fun factor dropped in the setup snow, but it's a much more capable sled on the super deep days.

Could probably run the same 28/66 gearing with the 7T driver as with the short track so that would save you buying separate sprockets. Some folks swear the 8T driver performs better than just gearing up with a 7T though...lest bend radius around the driver and puts the track 1/2" closer to the snow at the front. Geometry of the Elevate kit might not work as well without the drop. Lots of things to consider.

 

[sno*jet]

i think the riot x 146 with dropped case and single beam would perform as well as the riot twin rail with a 154 3".
Ive been to cooke during a big winter blast and i think the dropped case single beam would be more fun in those conditions. lighter too.
thats a $hit ton of work to drop your case and then do all the other swap-a-roos each time you take a trip, but maybe its worth it to you. saves you maybe 7k over having two sleds imo, not 12-18k. because of the parts. just a ballpark guess.
Id be calling dealers seeing if they had any 21-22 X's if i was in your shoes, maybe a demo unspoken for. also might consider a mountain sled that you add trail things to when youre at home, might be a lot less work. sounds like mountains are more of a concern to you than fast trails.

 

[RiotCountry]

I just traded my 2020 Alpha One Hardcore for a 2021 Riot 8000 with a twin rail/146 and it came with both a 2" and 1.6" track. My plan for this was to switch back and forth between mountain and trail riding since I moved back to the Midwest after several years of riding in the PNW. I was looking at some part numbers and differences between the alpha drive, and the riot 8000, it looks like the riot has a different chain case than that of the alpha, and I'm wondering if that will make it so I cannot fit an alpha setup in the tunnel.

Has anybody done something similar, or have any more information on what the challenges will be in swapping a 165/3.0 3.5 pitch will be into the riot?

I will also be swapping the front end to the mountain front end(shocks and everything) between rides. I want to go with a TKI belt drive on this, but the numbers are different between the riot/riot X, and would like to know the gearing change for a 146x1.6 and a 165x3.0.

Let me know your thoughts/concerns.

Thanks,

Don.

I am in a similar boat as you although slightly reversed. I have been looking at buying a 2021 Riot X and then either swapping in a 2" track for trail riding or swapping in a twin rail with a 2" for trail riding and then swapping back to the 2.6" when I head to the mountains. I'd also probably consider gearing up to 21/49 to help with running more trail speeds when needed. I think a 2" alpha track would hold up just find on the trails. There's just a few features on the Riot X that cater more to my riding style versus the standard Riot which is why I would start with the X.

 

[Skis Up]

I am in a similar boat as you although slightly reversed. I have been looking at buying a 2021 Riot X and then either swapping in a 2" track for trail riding or swapping in a twin rail with a 2" for trail riding and then swapping back to the 2.6" when I head to the mountains. I'd also probably consider gearing up to 21/49 to help with running more trail speeds when needed. I think a 2" alpha track would hold up just find on the trails. There's just a few features on the Riot X that cater more to my riding style versus the standard Riot which is why I would start with the X.

So what's this 2" Alpha Track you speak of? Trimmed 3in??? or is it a purchased item is it a 146 or a 154

 

[boondocker97]

The mountain Blast Alpha has a 146 2" track that is the old chisel-tooth Camso Challenger pattern. Looks like it's even clipped every window.

https://arcticcat.txtsv.com/snowmobile/mid-sized/blast-m